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On October 30 2013 23:00 b0rt_ wrote:
The zvp problem I have is transition. If I don't do enough roach and ling damage to a fairly fast toss 3rd then I have trouble with knowing what to do. I usually want to go into swarm hosts but I feel a 3 base toss is really powerful with 5+ collosus and archons by the time they hit. I could get a bunch of spines I guess but I wonder why he might not just walk around them? How many am I supposed to get and where? I don't feel I have enough gas to get out corruptors as well. Thanks for any help.
It sounds like your style right now is committing quite a lot to roach ling and hoping to kill the toss third/severly delay it. As with any heavy pressure that requires econ sacrifices, unless you do significant damage, you WILL be significantly far behind. I always found the best response to a quick toss third is to just out-greed him, never liked committing to attacks that have to do game crushing damage, especially not as zerg (a race that is built around having a great economy). Your problem with gas/resources to defend spawns from this as well, as you're dumping gas into roaches that did little damage and significantly delaying your 4th. Getting an earlier fourth and teching up to vipers or swarm hosts is the best way to play against a greedy toss imo
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I really struggle in ZvP aswell. (Top Diamond/Master level, was Master and now came back playing)
I normally get a 4th and saturate it once I see the protoss getting the 4th and get swarm hosts. (like ~12 or so) I back it up with a Roach/Hydra army but I don't know what to transition into after Protoss got 5 colossi and pretty much unlimited storms... they just storm my army and I lose all my units or I retreat until I can't retreat anymore and lose my whole to storms.
I don't really know how to use vipers correctly or even if they would help vs storm? Should I use blinding cloud or abduct the colossi? But the storm problem would still pe present.
Best successs I had was just to be very cost efficient with my swarm hosts and then lose my whole army on purpose/trading it as best as I can and just get 40+ mutas and go for a baserace. But I really hate that playstyle and would much more like to go for some army with which I can actually engage the protoss deathball.
Any advice?
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what do I do to counter mass blink stalker + immortal? Muta falls easily, zerglings melt before they can even start dps'ing, and ultras get owned by immortals. BL seems a little shaky given the mobility of mass blink stalker - they'll just snipe my bases 2 at a time while i can't engage. What unit comp is good?
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On November 02 2013 07:55 chairmobile wrote:
what do I do to counter mass blink stalker + immortal? Muta falls easily, zerglings melt before they can even start dps'ing, and ultras get owned by immortals. BL seems a little shaky given the mobility of mass blink stalker - they'll just snipe my bases 2 at a time while i can't engage. What unit comp is good?
Which unit comp you go for depends on how much economy you have. If they're doing that as a unit comp off 3 base, go for swarmhosts and speed roaches. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=428262 You want to get around 14 swarm hosts and then start pressuring. Use the locusts from the swarm hosts to absorb damage while attacking with the roaches. Retreat your roach force when the locusts disappear. You need 2 control groups for this style, 1 for main army, 1 for swarmhosts. You will smash any gateway + immo composition.
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Hi,
I cannot deal with bio mine for the love of God. It absolutly distroys me.
I am Plat, I was Diamond until this season.
I have like 70% win rate against Z and P and 15% against T.
If T tries anything else i just crush it. (2 rax, banschee mech etc.)
I tried ling bane muta but i think i do not have the micro, swarmhost are horribe against it.
Now i try to go hydra because it outranges the mines and hope i do not die until i get broodlords.
I feel like you have to go muta or hydra because you need to kill the medivacs but i hold the pushes one after another until a lucky mine shot and i am dead :-(
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On November 05 2013 00:47 icezar wrote:
Hi,
I cannot deal with bio mine for the love of God. It absolutly distroys me.
I am Plat, I was Diamond until this season.
I have like 70% win rate against Z and P and 15% against T.
If T tries anything else i just crush it. (2 rax, banschee mech etc.)
I tried ling bane muta but i think i do not have the micro, swarmhost are horribe against it.
Now i try to go hydra because it outranges the mines and hope i do not die until i get broodlords.
I feel like you have to go muta or hydra because you need to kill the medivacs but i hold the pushes one after another until a lucky mine shot and i am dead :-(
I have the EXACT same issue. Now Plat but I was Diamond before too.
Good winrate against Z and P but I have 30% against T because of the mines. There is always a couple of mines that I didn`t see and BOOM here come the lucky mine shot and I am dead.
I was told by some people to try to cripple the T economy early on with a roache timing that it may help out. But for me I am just waiting for the patch that hopefully will make the mine a little bit easier to play against.
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good luck with that! They need like 1 marauder in the bunker to hold that...
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On November 05 2013 00:54 b0ub0u wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 00:47 icezar wrote:
Hi,
I cannot deal with bio mine for the love of God. It absolutly distroys me.
I am Plat, I was Diamond until this season.
I have like 70% win rate against Z and P and 15% against T.
If T tries anything else i just crush it. (2 rax, banschee mech etc.)
I tried ling bane muta but i think i do not have the micro, swarmhost are horribe against it.
Now i try to go hydra because it outranges the mines and hope i do not die until i get broodlords.
I feel like you have to go muta or hydra because you need to kill the medivacs but i hold the pushes one after another until a lucky mine shot and i am dead :-(
I have the EXACT same issue. Now Plat but I was Diamond before too. Good winrate against Z and P but I have 30% against T because of the mines. There is always a couple of mines that I didn`t see and BOOM here come the lucky mine shot and I am dead. I was told by some people to try to cripple the T economy early on with a roache timing that it may help out. But for me I am just waiting for the patch that hopefully will make the mine a little bit easier to play against.
Well, just play patiently. The key is : defend, defend, defend, muta, defend, defend, defend. 3 spines + 1 spore on the front. Counter attack with lings only, some banes if you need to break something. Always have overseers with you.
Once you got 20-30 muta, you can start to attack (30 muta in the main terran base are scary you know :D)
When you want to push to the terran base, always make sure that you cleaned the mines on your creep.
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yhea, they usually have 2 turrets and a mine there
If i insist a lot they also get a thor
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On November 05 2013 01:21 icezar wrote:
yhea, they usually have 2 turrets and a mine there
If i insist a lot they also get a thor
Do you actually want help or do you just want people to join you in whining over terrans? How about this, post a zvt replay and we will see what your actual problems are.
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On November 05 2013 01:17 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 00:54 b0ub0u wrote:On November 05 2013 00:47 icezar wrote:
Hi,
I cannot deal with bio mine for the love of God. It absolutly distroys me.
I am Plat, I was Diamond until this season.
I have like 70% win rate against Z and P and 15% against T.
If T tries anything else i just crush it. (2 rax, banschee mech etc.)
I tried ling bane muta but i think i do not have the micro, swarmhost are horribe against it.
Now i try to go hydra because it outranges the mines and hope i do not die until i get broodlords.
I feel like you have to go muta or hydra because you need to kill the medivacs but i hold the pushes one after another until a lucky mine shot and i am dead :-(
I have the EXACT same issue. Now Plat but I was Diamond before too. Good winrate against Z and P but I have 30% against T because of the mines. There is always a couple of mines that I didn`t see and BOOM here come the lucky mine shot and I am dead. I was told by some people to try to cripple the T economy early on with a roache timing that it may help out. But for me I am just waiting for the patch that hopefully will make the mine a little bit easier to play against. Well, just play patiently. The key is : defend, defend, defend, muta, defend, defend, defend. 3 spines + 1 spore on the front. Counter attack with lings only, some banes if you need to break something. Always have overseers with you. Once you got 20-30 muta, you can start to attack (30 muta in the main terran base are scary you know :D) When you want to push to the terran base, always make sure that you cleaned the mines on your creep.
I always try to save gaz for ultras. Maybe I should keep building mutas? I used to just go straight to ultras without mutas.. it worked for a while lol.
Ok here is 2 replays from yesterday. I played badly I know. If you guys can help me out I would appreciate it! ZvT is currently un-winnable for me. Something I don`t understand I guess!
http://drop.sc/364247
http://drop.sc/364246
Thx!
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On November 02 2013 19:32 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2013 07:55 chairmobile wrote:
what do I do to counter mass blink stalker + immortal? Muta falls easily, zerglings melt before they can even start dps'ing, and ultras get owned by immortals. BL seems a little shaky given the mobility of mass blink stalker - they'll just snipe my bases 2 at a time while i can't engage. What unit comp is good? Which unit comp you go for depends on how much economy you have. If they're doing that as a unit comp off 3 base, go for swarmhosts and speed roaches. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=428262 You want to get around 14 swarm hosts and then start pressuring. Use the locusts from the swarm hosts to absorb damage while attacking with the roaches. Retreat your roach force when the locusts disappear. You need 2 control groups for this style, 1 for main army, 1 for swarmhosts. You will smash any gateway + immo composition.
Thanks!
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On November 05 2013 01:29 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 01:21 icezar wrote:
yhea, they usually have 2 turrets and a mine there
If i insist a lot they also get a thor Do you actually want help or do you just want people to join you in whining over terrans? How about this, post a zvt replay and we will see what your actual problems are.
Point Taken! You are right.
back to ladder pain i guess :D
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Those look verry familiar.
You had 0 Chances, T was so far ahead, you took bad engages but even with good ones i think it would only took a little more.
I am very curious what adveices do you get.
PS: i love how your speed banes do no damage but his mines are like nuke strikes :D
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Hey guys, just a short question. How do you counter Protoss when he get's a very fast third like 6, 6:30 or maybe 7?
Do you flood lings or wait til you have hydras to do a ling timing attack? or flood roaches to kill his third?
I have no response to that but instead letting them having their 3rd base up easily.
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it depends on what i scout, if i go for it then its lings. if i see the forge spinning i do not do it, if i sow stargate i deffinatly do it
If i see gateways i fake it and try to catch his army between his natural and third, make him burn some FF at least.
If i think he goes colosus i macro hard - maybe mass expand and mutas if i see him really passive, if not i will try a hydra speed push later.
PS: I am plat hoping to be promoted to Dia but MMR Stats said my MMR is mid gold :-))) i have no problem killing P, i only die to verry specific 2 base allin and then is kind of close.
At my level i face a lot of 2 gate/ other proxy that i learnd to scout and i absolutly destroy them also a lot of air the i kill with hydra ling.
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Hi, guys. What is a good strat for ZvZ? I'm plat, I have reasonably good winrates vs P and T, but have no idea how to play vs Zerg. When I go roach/hydra I get crushed by the muta army's mobility (and banelings), when I go muta - I can't do much damage and get crushed in a straight-on battle (assuming I live long enough to get mutas).
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8 Posts
Hey guys, I'm a top gold player and i got a problem with Protoss. When the toss go sky toss and the game go into very late game, how do i deal vs his max 3/3/3 sky toss army ? Even if I'm on 5 bases i don't know how to do it. I tried to max out on Hydras, but, my entire army kills like 4 carriers and 3 void rays and just disappears. I a game, i even attacked him 3 times in a row with a maxed 3/3 hydra army but it didn't do anything. What composition should i go for, Mutas ??? Corruptors ??? Vipers ???. PLS HELP ME !!!
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On November 07 2013 23:13 typhoonn wrote:
Hey guys, I'm a top gold player and i got a problem with Protoss. When the toss go sky toss and the game go into very late game, how do i deal vs his max 3/3/3 sky toss army ? Even if I'm on 5 bases i don't know how to do it. I tried to max out on Hydras, but, my entire army kills like 4 carriers and 3 void rays and just disappears. I a game, i even attacked him 3 times in a row with a maxed 3/3 hydra army but it didn't do anything. What composition should i go for, Mutas ??? Corruptors ??? Vipers ???. PLS HELP ME !!!
I find the best way to deal with a skytoss is to just kill them off early if possible by doing a roach max timing attack, if this attack fails then you want to tech into roach hydra with some infestors to fungal voidrays as they can get in and out before they hit. In the late late game its all about static defence, queens and vipers. You have to spread creep as far as you can and set up loads of static defences on this creep, then after you have done this you get the vipers to pull the enemy units into the static defence and use the queens to heal. It is very micro intensive and very boring however right now that is the best way to deal with this.
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[/QUOTE]
I have the EXACT same issue. Now Plat but I was Diamond before too.
Good winrate against Z and P but I have 30% against T because of the mines. There is always a couple of mines that I didn`t see and BOOM here come the lucky mine shot and I am dead.
I was told by some people to try to cripple the T economy early on with a roache timing that it may help out. But for me I am just waiting for the patch that hopefully will make the mine a little bit easier to play against.
[/QUOTE]
If you are struggling against mines then you do not have to go ling bane muta, you can also go roach hydra which is still strong against bio mine, the reason it is not often used is because of its mobility though, you will need good creep spread to be able to use this compesition effectivly however it is the best counter to mines if you are unable to micro lings and banelings. Use the roaches to absort the mine hits and the hydras can take them out at range. Remember detection though
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EPT
