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On August 02 2014 09:36 KingofGods wrote:
Pull out of gas to start your cc and then put SCVs back after CC is down otherwise you will have something like 200 gas after you start your cc with not enough minerals to do anything with it (people usually build a factory when they leave guys in gas the whole time).
Stim is started some time after +1 with Innovation's +1 build.
What's the transition and build after this? 3rd Rax or Factory and Starport? Also when would I start my 2nd and 3rd gas, generally speaking? I've been getting the +1 Armour after +1 Attack, then either 3rd Rax or Factory first, depending on my Minerals because I may or may not have enough Gas.
Is it possible to defend 1 base Blink Stalkers + Mothership Core all ins with this build? I just lost to Blink Stalkers all in. Yes I didn't have Bunkers because I didn't' throw down a scan despite seeing a large amount of Stalkers at his main. But even if I did, I can say for certain it wouldn't have helped me put up a better fight.
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I just can't make units as Terran. I get a third and I go from 200/200 minerals/gas to 2000/1800 and unlike when I play zerg, I can't spend it all. I just can't make units, even though I'm on 9 barracks, 1 factory, 1 starport. It's stupid how hard it is to just make units. i need tips or something idk i just can't macro terran
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On August 06 2014 17:29 Incognoto wrote:
I just can't make units as Terran. I get a third and I go from 200/200 minerals/gas to 2000/1800 and unlike when I play zerg, I can't spend it all. I just can't make units, even though I'm on 9 barracks, 1 factory, 1 starport. It's stupid how hard it is to just make units. i need tips or something idk i just can't macro terran
You need to isolate the problem.
Are you not producing units because
1) you're getting supply blocked?
2) you're not clicking the make unit buttons fast enough?
3) you're not tabbing to your production buildings enough?
Go over your replays or FPVODS and decide which one it is.
Then isolate the problem by working only on that one thing.
for 1) make yourself look at the top right of the screen often until it becomes second nature.
2) Outside of the game, practice the hotkey sequences slowly and gradually increase the speed.
3) Force yourself to tab to your production buildings and when you do - make sure you always look down to see if they're producing. Some people just spam and don't look to check, bad habit and waste of apm.
Finally, practice your build in a custom game (like benchmarker), and make sure you know your build inside out (copy from korean replay if necessary).
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I'll will try to nail the problem. Can you recommend a good benchmarker map?
Also my builds are archaic I feel, where can you get good Korean replays (i'm talking replays not vods, if possible)
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Maybe you're making your raxes too late? Given it takes forever to get up a reactored rax, the ressources can quickly stockpile once your 3rd income kicks in.
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On August 06 2014 19:02 Nimix wrote:
Maybe you're making your raxes too late? Given it takes forever to get up a reactored rax, the ressources can quickly stockpile once your 3rd income kicks in.
This is also a possibility come to think of it
What are the good buildings to bases ratio to have?
3 Rax + Fact + Starport for early game 2 base (when natural isn't saturated yet)
5 Rax + Fact + Starport for saturated 2 base
9 Rax + 2 Fact + 2 Starport for saturated 3 base
That sound good or is it something else? My upgrades are also ~late. Terran is just SO hard. I'm barely getting 140-150 apm when I go try-hard with Terran, when I play Zerg my macro is much better and my apm hits 200 ez.
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On August 06 2014 19:07 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2014 19:02 Nimix wrote:
Maybe you're making your raxes too late? Given it takes forever to get up a reactored rax, the ressources can quickly stockpile once your 3rd income kicks in. This is also a possibility come to think of it What are the good buildings to bases ratio to have? 3 Rax + Fact + Starport for early game 2 base (when natural isn't saturated yet) 5 Rax + Fact + Starport for saturated 2 base 9 Rax + 2 Fact + 2 Starport for saturated 3 base That sound good or is it something else? My upgrades are also ~late. Terran is just SO hard. I'm barely getting 140-150 apm when I go try-hard with Terran, when I play Zerg my macro is much better and my apm hits 200 ez.
First of all when improving don't pay much attention to your apm since it can be misleading. Try to improve your accuracy more than your speed. 150 apm is enough to reach high master with Terran if you're efficient.
Your building count per base is kind of fine (you don't really get 2 starports unless you're in tvp, and you get 3 factories in tvt/tvz).
Here are some pro replays from a few months ago:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/449993-dreamhack-bucharest-2014-replays-released
Look for replays by top korean terrans.
Also the benchmarker map is simply called "benchmarker" in the custom game section (not arcade).
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On August 06 2014 19:07 Incognoto wrote:
This is also a possibility come to think of it
What are the good buildings to bases ratio to have?
3 Rax + Fact + Starport for early game 2 base (when natural isn't saturated yet)
5 Rax + Fact + Starport for saturated 2 base
9 Rax + 2 Fact + 2 Starport for saturated 3 base
That sound good or is it something else? My upgrades are also ~late. Terran is just SO hard. I'm barely getting 140-150 apm when I go try-hard with Terran, when I play Zerg my macro is much better and my apm hits 200 ez.
That sounds about right (for a TvZ anyway).
The tech tree is differently structured from zerg but as long as you remember to throw up an armory when +1/+1(double ebay) or +1 armor(single ebay) is halfway done then your upgrades shouldn't be late.
You'll find that a lot of the Zerg APM is simply dedicated to maintaining creep spread and inject timings. Terrans don't have much APM to use for scut work like that outside of continuously build depots, all the Terran APM is spent on army control and macro. Also instead of 1 production cycle to worry about (injects) you have to keep building SCVs, bio, tanks, air from 4 different buildings that you have to tab through so it takes a while to get a feel for it, I still miss production cycles a lot.
You can get pro replays from GosuGamers, also here's a link for all the replays Blizz released (Blizzcon 2013 & WCS 2014 S1)
http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/wcs-2013-global-finals-and-2014-season-1-replays
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Thanks a ton for the advice everyone, will get back to you with more questions and/or encouraging results. ^^
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I've been tearing it up in TvP, going:
- Standard reaper FE, with 1 scv pulled from gas upon starting reaper and starting CC on low ground before the second supply depot.
- 2nd gas immediately after 2nd barracks (tech labbed), and factory immediately after stim.
- Constant marines (x2) and marauder (x1) production, with very slight SCV cuts here and there to allow enough minerals for supply depots.
- Skipping ebay and bunker entirely to allow for constant 2 rax production and to rush out medivacs.
- Fake push 40 seconds before medivacs pop to bait photon overcharge if possible.
*** Through all this, I can hit a very strong timing: a sizable squad of marine/marauder with stim (combat shield usually half way done) and 2 medivacs AT the protoss natural at 9:00 - 9:20 depending on the map. Also, when I push out, I take my third, add 2 ebays and more raxes as income allows.
Problem is, since I play random, this is the only TvP build I know, and against mid-high masters protoss players, they can usually squeeze out just enough defense at the 9 minute mark to hold this. Afterward, it all goes downhill since I'm still capped at 2 barracks production. Basically, if my push does damage then I'm fine; free to take a 3rd, add more barracks and upgrades. If not... I get raped in lategame TvP.
Could a high level player comment on my build? What can I tweak to make my build better? Thanks!
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@EngrishTeacher
I wouldn't consider myself high level but I decided to throw in my 2min for your build anyway, so take from it what you feel like.
If I interpret your build incorrectly or read the spending wrong correct me.
From what it sounds like, my first impression of this build is that you're essentially hitting a very strong timing with Stim/Shield, 2 medevacs + bio in order to end the game before Colossi come out. What you sacrifice in order to hit this timing faster (as opposed to the more standard 10 min poke) is your +1/+1, early defence, a handful of SCVs, and a 3rd barracks. That's a real hefty price from my standpoint.
Now the 1st colossi in standard play comes out like 9:30ish. This is where your timing would most likely do heavy damage and will probably end the game.
However, if the protoss decided to do any sort of a 2 base colossi rush, the 1st one comes out at 8:30 and your push is boned.
If the protoss opened with any sort of all-in or 2 base gateway play, you would probably be able to scout it out with the reaper but whatever your reaction is to this all-in, it's still missing: 1 bunker, +1 attack, an extra barracks, and a few SCV.
You said it yourself, it just goes downhill from there if it doesn't straight up end the game. The reason why is you're behind in economy, production and upgrades. Sometimes you'd have one or the other - but to have all 3 issues vs a protoss you might as well just GG, since you can't defend a 3rd and you're at an army disadvantage for the rest of the game.
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Engrish teacher, doesn't that lose to dark templars / oracles ?
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Hi all, looking for some help with terran. I'm trying to pick it up after a stint with both Zerg then Protoss why not finish it all and just play random.
At the moment i'm trying to just copy pro builds and P v Z is really bugging me. Most VODs that I've seen has some kind of reaper expand into some hellion harrass and then a 4M composition. However every zerg I've faced so far (admittedly that's like 10 games) has gone roaches.
Question:
1. Do I just have an unlucky streak? or is the norm moving towards roaches?
2. Once I scout it with my hellion poke, what is the correct response? Do I switch to tanks? or do I stay on 4M with higher marauder production? or something else.
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On August 07 2014 17:27 Dracover wrote:
Hi all, looking for some help with terran. I'm trying to pick it up after a stint with both Zerg then Protoss why not finish it all and just play random.
At the moment i'm trying to just copy pro builds and P v Z is really bugging me. Most VODs that I've seen has some kind of reaper expand into some hellion harrass and then a 4M composition. However every zerg I've faced so far (admittedly that's like 10 games) has gone roaches.
Question:
1. Do I just have an unlucky streak? or is the norm moving towards roaches?
2. Once I scout it with my hellion poke, what is the correct response? Do I switch to tanks? or do I stay on 4M with higher marauder production? or something else.
1. i think some zergs like to use a few roaches to secure third and spread creep. stephano used to do this a lot.
2. i believe supply wall in natural and banshee is the safest and most flexible defense. it also gets a quicker medivac for drop harass out after the banshee than a tank defense would.
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I think best defence are 3 tanks on high ground, 3-tanks will one shot roaches.
But marauderers will also do just fine, and you will be more mobile, so bassicly it's your choice which counter you chose, depends on your midgame plan, same goes for banshees.
I'd put it like this, if your plan is to go bio then use marauderers, if your plan is marine-tank-medivac then use tanks, if your plan is to go mech, then use couple of banshees.
good day, svizcy
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On August 07 2014 12:29 EngrishTeacher wrote:
I've been tearing it up in TvP, going:
- Standard reaper FE, with 1 scv pulled from gas upon starting reaper and starting CC on low ground before the second supply depot.
- 2nd gas immediately after 2nd barracks (tech labbed), and factory immediately after stim.
- Constant marines (x2) and marauder (x1) production, with very slight SCV cuts here and there to allow enough minerals for supply depots.
- Skipping ebay and bunker entirely to allow for constant 2 rax production and to rush out medivacs.
- Fake push 40 seconds before medivacs pop to bait photon overcharge if possible.
*** Through all this, I can hit a very strong timing: a sizable squad of marine/marauder with stim (combat shield usually half way done) and 2 medivacs AT the protoss natural at 9:00 - 9:20 depending on the map. Also, when I push out, I take my third, add 2 ebays and more raxes as income allows.
Problem is, since I play random, this is the only TvP build I know, and against mid-high masters protoss players, they can usually squeeze out just enough defense at the 9 minute mark to hold this. Afterward, it all goes downhill since I'm still capped at 2 barracks production. Basically, if my push does damage then I'm fine; free to take a 3rd, add more barracks and upgrades. If not... I get raped in lategame TvP.
Could a high level player comment on my build? What can I tweak to make my build better? Thanks!
The strategy behind the build is solid. Make some marauders for an earlygame push and a quick medivac followup if overcharge was used. You can add a 3rd addon-less barracks to make this even stronger (if you want to avoid the lategame so much).
Avoiding the bunker and ebay is fine assuming you scout properly with your reaper.
Overall it's a nice build, getting the medivacs early is good for continuation - they will allow you to conserve your units and get ahead on tech while harassing your opponent. If you really want a push that will kill your opponent early game, bombers 3 rax with addons stim push is probably stronger. Or Polts 3 rax with 2 addons (bait overcharge then go with stim, take out nexus if he won't engage).
Obviously the delayed upgrades really hurt you, but if you macro well behind the pressure you should be able to get ahead.
Also if you can use the early medivacs to snipe his forge then you will be fine in the midgame.
The key here is, 2 rax production is really low so if you trade your whole army at this point you're gonna be in a problem
The medivacs allow you to harass with minimal losses while getting ahead behind it, so that's what I would recommend with this build. If you wanna go allin medivacs just go for the same build with 3 rax medivacs.
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On August 07 2014 17:27 Dracover wrote:
Hi all, looking for some help with terran. I'm trying to pick it up after a stint with both Zerg then Protoss why not finish it all and just play random.
At the moment i'm trying to just copy pro builds and P v Z is really bugging me. Most VODs that I've seen has some kind of reaper expand into some hellion harrass and then a 4M composition. However every zerg I've faced so far (admittedly that's like 10 games) has gone roaches.
Question:
1. Do I just have an unlucky streak? or is the norm moving towards roaches?
2. Once I scout it with my hellion poke, what is the correct response? Do I switch to tanks? or do I stay on 4M with higher marauder production? or something else.
1. Many zergs make roaches now.
2. You need to know if its defensive roach or offensive roach. Some earlier posts cover scouting for this.
Vs mass roach/roach hydra - go tanks or pure bio with lots of rauders. Vs defensive roach - play normally.
Vs 1-1 roach push - bunkers/mass bio and tanks help.
If you open 3 rax before 3rd CC you should be safe vs 1-1 roach timings assuming solid macro.
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On August 06 2014 12:53 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2014 09:36 KingofGods wrote:
Pull out of gas to start your cc and then put SCVs back after CC is down otherwise you will have something like 200 gas after you start your cc with not enough minerals to do anything with it (people usually build a factory when they leave guys in gas the whole time).
Stim is started some time after +1 with Innovation's +1 build. What's the transition and build after this? 3rd Rax or Factory and Starport? Also when would I start my 2nd and 3rd gas, generally speaking? I've been getting the +1 Armour after +1 Attack, then either 3rd Rax or Factory first, depending on my Minerals because I may or may not have enough Gas. Is it possible to defend 1 base Blink Stalkers + Mothership Core all ins with this build? I just lost to Blink Stalkers all in. Yes I didn't have Bunkers because I didn't' throw down a scan despite seeing a large amount of Stalkers at his main. But even if I did, I can say for certain it wouldn't have helped me put up a better fight.
3rax is safer against blink allins and oracles. Just make sure you scout it on time. Cut SCVs at 6:00 if its 1 base blink, cut at 7:00 if 2 base for bunkers. The gas timings are mentioned here. http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-polts-reaper-fe/
I find Polts 3rax build to be the safest since you get the most amount of units and stim completed roughly the same time when 2 base blink hits. Just make sure while you are holding the attack, you tech to medivacs so you can counter attack once you hold it off.
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So in this TvZ I snipe hatcheries multiple times, kill all his lings and banes and mutas and then like 20 ultras pop out, attack move me, and end the game. Jesus christ that burns my ass. How the hell do you deal with that many ultras?
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EPT
