The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 214

Hi gold league terran here

I have some questions regarding reaper expand in TvZ. I like to follow it up with a second reaper, 6 helions and 2 banshees:
1) Should I get my 3. CC ASAP or after produced the helions and banshee around 8:30?
2) A training partner suggested I should build my 2. CC on the highground because of openings like a 14pool/13gas. I tried and I have to say I don't like it too much. It seems to slow the build down quite a bit
3) Do you get a bunker near the ramp just after you build the 2. CC?. Doesn't seem to make much sense for me. You only have 1 marine and 1 reaper. And it wouldn't make much sense to put the reaper into the bunker.

Also I would like to know what you do when zerg is staying on 2 bases until around 9 minutes? I died to mass roach attacks, 2 base muta and just mass lings after I killed the zergs third hatchery.
I usually just macro up get my upgrades going and usually they always attack in the moment when I float my third CC over.
What am I supposed to do? Am I still ahead if just stay on 2 bases?
Should I just keep my third CC at home build a lot of units and get my upgrades going?

Maybe someone can send me a replay showing how they play against 2 base zerg. That would help a lot. I'm just doing my macro decision on autopilot. And I've been losing a lot of games because of that.

On December 02 2013 23:18 Pirfiktshon wrote:


I have already answered this pretty well about 2 pages back but i'll touch on it again.
@#1 You shouldn't always go straight for your 3rd CC only when you are safe to do so should you take it which is a reaction based off what your opponent is opening with. In some cases you can actually use your 3rd CC as part of your wall off so that you can take it early . The only disadvantage there is that your opponent sees it so you must be sure that your opponent is going for a more macro oriented style. ( IE hatch first with no gas ---> going for fast 3rd himself) Look a few pages back to my description of other reactions to see hwo to react ot the others.
@#2 been answered with #1 but simply put if you open reaper first and you scout an early pool and gas and your CC is on the low ground put a Bunker up ASAP. Going reaper first though to be safer you can put your first CC on the high ground if you don't feel comfortable defending this with bunker early on. Otherwise if you start getting hit with the 2 lings that circumvent your first reaper to go after cc then start putting your 2nd reaper on the low ground there to protect it.
@#3 Depends with what your opponent opened with when you open reaper first and they open an early pool and gas a Bunker to cover your natural exp and close to your ramp will be key. If they don't open early pool and gas just use it as part of the wall of to your nat.

When a zerg is going 2 base until 9 minutes its a Tech play. You need to burn a scan to find out what tech. As long as they aren't going 2 base muta you are going to immediately start getting out tanks as it could be either roach hdyra Bane ling all in or infestor play all 3 of those are countered by tanks. If its 2 base muta its important to get your marine count up high protect your production and put atleast 2 turrets in both your mineral lines before moving out. Once you have a strong marine count then you need tomake it so they HAVE to defend and seeing how they will only be on 2 base just now going on 3 their army is going to be tiny and their only ppower is to DO damage with muta so you get marine count up put turrets at your production as you move out and march across the map with a strong marine mine med force when doing this forcing him to defend as long as you kept yoru marine count high you will almost always win .

Edit: Also to note if you notice a late 3rd and a Tech play you want to favor production over upgrades as his upgrades will be really late as well unless he sacrifices the gas which will make his tech weak and gives you an opportunity to attack before he can start to snowball with his tech he has chosen.

On December 03 2013 08:07 Diabolical wrote:
Hi Guys,

Newbie Bronze/Silver terran here.

I've been looking for 1 build I can do in all 3 matchups, as I find I'm spending ages getting frustrated at missing little things / trying to remember 3 build orders!

I found this - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409905 - Which is a 3 rax reaper (which seems good and fun!), just wonder what you guys think of it?


People have said at my level I should always go 1 rax expand, but I find that I dont have enough stuff then. And don't know what to make - when I last played lots of terrans opened Reaper and owned me with good poking so I thought that I have to open reaper.
I don't really know what to get / when to do things.

I don't really want to go mech as it looks complicated vs bio, would prefer bio/tank - just have no idea what BO I can use in all 3 matchups.

Help :>

On December 03 2013 12:19 terranimbastimamove wrote:
Can anyone please tell me why TvZ is SO INCREDIBLY EASY and TvP is SO INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT? I feel like when I am playing TvZ that I am playing simon says and I am simon. When I play TvP I am playing David Kim says and the protoss player could be A.I as far as I am concerned and I would STILL GET COMPLETELY DESTROYED no matter how flawless my macro, multi-tasking and build order execution is.

I ALWAYS scout for proxies and almost ALWAYS lose to blink stalkers although I scout it EVERYTIME. Now that I got that out of the could anyone please lend me some ideas that would make TvP less infuriating to play that would fit with my style that is being hyper-aggro standard 1 Rax FE into 3 Rax bio. I usually get completely crushed by anything that involved high templar before the 14 min mark. If I cant kill the toss before the 15 min mark then usually the game will end up being 40 minutes long and me losing to dark templar, zealot harass and storms. I feel like I can't do ANYTHING except macro after 15 min mark no matter how much I try to drop.

If anyone is interested In my TvZ I usually play 1 Rax Fe, 3 CC, double gas, factory, 6 hellions, 3rax and scout for all-ins of course. The only time I lose TvZ is usually due to a hidden expansion and sometimes hydra roach when I thought he was going muta-ling-bane.

I feel the real secret to TvZ is having good splits. I play Darglein's micro trainer split practice up to level 21 everyday before ladder games. Usually takes me around 7-9 min to accomplish. Please help me get better at starcraft I play a lot and still get smashed by protoss.

On December 03 2013 06:29 Doc Brawler wrote:
Ok guys I wanted to talk about getting the reactor before a reaper in TvP(on two player maps).

So I think it is generally agreed upon that one of the safest builds you can do TvP is reaper expo because it gives you a fast expo, can slightly punish nexus first with a few probe kills, and you will be able to scout whether oracles, blink, or super greedy play are coming your way.

Problem / Inefficiencies with Reaper Expo

1. Protoss can punish if you do not scv scout.
Protoss have definitely found ways to punish this build including, fast z,s,msc poke, proxy gates, and proxy oracle on second pylon instead of third. This has generally lead to the need to scout with an scv prior to the reaper if you want to be safe from everything.
2. Scv scout makes fast reaper less useful (2 player maps specifically)
This is my biggest problem with the build, the early scv scout makes a very fast reaper redundant and less efficient than reaper after reactor. The best intel can come from and scv scout, and then a follow up scout with the reaper i.e. gas, chrono, pylons, expo, and finally tech structures (in that general order)
3. Early reapers don't do much damage these days
The standard msc expo means that your reaper should not get any (maybe 1) early probe kills if your opponent has good control (in lower leagues or on good reaper maps you can usually get a few).
Note: pulling one, two or three scvs out of gas will help you get a faster cc just like reaper builds..(reaper 50m, 50g vs reactor 50m, 50g)

Solution
I have been messing around with a reactor before reaper build, with a very fast svc scout (after gas is down) and I like it a bit better than reaper first. First of all, I think it is much more flexible than the reaper scout for a few reasons.
1. The build looks exactly like a reaper expo so the there is already misinformation if the probe only scouts gas and leaves before confirming a reaper (somewhat common)
2. With the initial scv scout, you are basically safe from all the protoss shenanigans and can change you build very smoothly, i.e. are you being proxy gated... 10 gated... proxy oracle on 2nd pylon... nexus-first-ed
3. You can opt to get 2 marines, 2 reapers, or my favorite 1 marine 1 reaper, each having their own advantages but in general your first unit will be delayed (first reaper or first marine) but every unit after that will be faster so you can have a higher marine count for those protoss rushes (at worst you will catch up and surpass marine count by the 3rd and 4th marine when compared to naked rax pumping marines). I believe that this will get you that extra marine and a half you need to hold on the oracle rush or the extra time you need to get a bunker vs a 10 gate/proxy gate (scv scout is must).
4. Transitions into and out of "mass" reaper (2, 4 or 6) safely and quickly if either they decided to be a greedy toss and nexus first (rare) or its just a good map like star-station or yeonsu. Traditional reaper expo generally gets 3 kills on nexus-first if both players control well. With a reactionary two reapers (scv scouted nexus-first) and similar control you can almost always get at least that amount and usually more. Note: micro-ing two reapers to their fullest potential can be difficult.
5. Transitions better into fast factory or mech play because you can have the option to skip the reaper if you want a fast factory AND you still get a early cc, high marine count and scouting info with quick scv scout and the optional reaper scout (I highly recommend one reaper after reactor)

Note: I have been using this opener to do many builds including mech, bio with WM drops, and bio with fast tanks to absolutely shit on blink all-ins. With two fast tanks and a third on the way (second one is not always out before initial blink in) constant double rine production and 4 bunkers you can hold both high and low ground against one base blink. This is basically GG unless they took a expo before the attack, which makes the attack super weak anyway

On December 03 2013 17:23 t0n!ght wrote:


I feel the same way about TvP. Maybe try some mech. It's what I do atm .
Level 21 in the split challenge is impressive. Do you use patrol commands? What's your secret?

On December 04 2013 06:31 ZardiChar wrote:
1. The "LG-IM build" is mentioned in the section in TvP about gasless expanding. But I don't see any place where this build is listed. What is it?