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Hi TL.
Been away from SC2 for ages. Thinking about coming back. Anything Terran-related in particular that I need to know, such as the current strats for each matchup? I have been away for so long, last time I remember was:
TvT = mech
TvZ = MMM with hellions and mines
TvP = MMM with mines.
Anything changed so far guys?
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On August 28 2013 16:08 ottoottoottootto wrote:
Hi TL.
Been away from SC2 for ages. Thinking about coming back. Anything Terran-related in particular that I need to know, such as the current strats for each matchup? I have been away for so long, last time I remember was:
TvT = mech
TvZ = MMM with hellions and mines
TvP = MMM with mines.
Anything changed so far guys?
Not really but in a standard comp you play TvP pure MMM and add ghosts viking as usual.
And in TvZ its basically just 4M with hellions just to open ip and get map control.
Mech is viable in TvT.
O e important thing to note is You need Bluflame for hellbats if you plan on mixing them into your comp the moment they got blueflame then they are really good again 
Hope this help feel free to ask more questions
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On August 27 2013 22:09 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 21:35 BBLN wrote:I need help with TvP, I don't know what I do wrong every game. I am trying to do many drops and make economic damage but my engagements are always bad. I am thinking about doing scv pull every game now  REPLAY you can do much more drops. look at 18:30 for example, you still have 6 medivacs with your main army. you can easily make 3 drops and use the rest of the army to snipe the 3rd/4th. think about multipronged attacks rather than just dropping. and yea, learn to take engagements a bit better. i'm sure you will learn it. your mistakes should be easy to fix. once you're decent at these two things, TvP becomes really fun. edit: i personally really like bigger drops too. 3-4 medivacs in the main makes most people pull their whole army and you have free reign over 3rd and 4th you mess most engagements up by not paying attention to your main army whatsoever. and some "interesting" decision making, like retreating when he only has 1 almost-dead collossus, but taking other engagements where he outnumbers/outteched you. and remember tight macro. you especially want to build your 3rd CC very timely, cause you're softcontaining the protoss and actively denying/delaying his 3rd. you can easily force a slight eco advantage in almost every TvP. one thing that helped me a lot in TvP was finding a hotkey setup that i felt comfortable with. dont listen to the perfection nazis who say you NEED to use 3 hotkeys. there's so many GMs who use less. i think mouzHeromarine uses two (1 bio, 2 vikings+ghost. idk how that makes sense), and i think dragon uses only one for whole army? i personally use two (one for bio+ghost and one for vikings). i think that's a really really nice simplification of perfect TvP micro. learn to hit EMPs well. for example, if you see a HT dont aim the EMP on him directly, but try to EMP his future position, you understand? it's easy to estimate cause they walk slow. try to hit him with the outer ring of your EMP to maximize your range. blanket their whole army with these things in mind. and dont position the ghosts too far back. just try to pay more attention to your army, do everything i said and your TvP will be fun and much better
I put the ability target hotkey on E like Khaldor teaches in his video, now its easier to spam EMP, just like protoss spams T :D
Thanks for the tips, but it just frustrating when you have much more army but two storms and your army is dead if he goes storms before colossi
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On August 28 2013 18:10 BBLN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 22:09 beg wrote:On August 27 2013 21:35 BBLN wrote:I need help with TvP, I don't know what I do wrong every game. I am trying to do many drops and make economic damage but my engagements are always bad. I am thinking about doing scv pull every game now REPLAY you can do much more drops. look at 18:30 for example, you still have 6 medivacs with your main army. you can easily make 3 drops and use the rest of the army to snipe the 3rd/4th. think about multipronged attacks rather than just dropping. and yea, learn to take engagements a bit better. i'm sure you will learn it. your mistakes should be easy to fix. once you're decent at these two things, TvP becomes really fun. edit: i personally really like bigger drops too. 3-4 medivacs in the main makes most people pull their whole army and you have free reign over 3rd and 4th you mess most engagements up by not paying attention to your main army whatsoever. and some "interesting" decision making, like retreating when he only has 1 almost-dead collossus, but taking other engagements where he outnumbers/outteched you. and remember tight macro. you especially want to build your 3rd CC very timely, cause you're softcontaining the protoss and actively denying/delaying his 3rd. you can easily force a slight eco advantage in almost every TvP. one thing that helped me a lot in TvP was finding a hotkey setup that i felt comfortable with. dont listen to the perfection nazis who say you NEED to use 3 hotkeys. there's so many GMs who use less. i think mouzHeromarine uses two (1 bio, 2 vikings+ghost. idk how that makes sense), and i think dragon uses only one for whole army? i personally use two (one for bio+ghost and one for vikings). i think that's a really really nice simplification of perfect TvP micro. learn to hit EMPs well. for example, if you see a HT dont aim the EMP on him directly, but try to EMP his future position, you understand? it's easy to estimate cause they walk slow. try to hit him with the outer ring of your EMP to maximize your range. blanket their whole army with these things in mind. and dont position the ghosts too far back. just try to pay more attention to your army, do everything i said and your TvP will be fun and much better I put the ability target hotkey on E like Khaldor teaches in his video, now its easier to spam EMP, just like protoss spams T :D Thanks for the tips, but it just frustrating when you have much more army but two storms and your army is dead if he goes storms before colossi
Honestly fuck drop play post 15 minute mark. It's really overrated and I believe it comes from a misunderstanding from lower level players/non terran players.
Terran actually scales much better than protoss in the late game so army trading isn't beneficial for you. Also, babysitting drops is way too APM consuming the fact that your punished much for mismicro in big battles than the protoss player. So instead, post 15 minute mark just focus on getting the right unit composition, focus on scanning observers a lot, focus on great army movement and in-battle unit control.
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Hi, I need some help in TvT.
I am using Fantasy Mines drop into Banshee opener (from IMBABuilds), but many people on ladder started doing concussive shield cheese, and I am having really hard time defending it. I am trying to get widow mine very fast and repair the deopts on the wall to pump out more marines from my reactored barracks, but the economic damage is too much. I mean even if I scout it, it's little too late because the nature of the build. Any tips?
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On August 28 2013 19:57 BBLN wrote:
Hi, I need some help in TvT.
I am using Fantasy Mines drop into Banshee opener (from IMBABuilds), but many people on ladder started doing concussive shield cheese, and I am having really hard time defending it. I am trying to get widow mine very fast and repair the deopts on the wall to pump out more marines from my reactored barracks, but the economic damage is too much. I mean even if I scout it, it's little too late because the nature of the build. Any tips?
On May 17 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 22:34 govie wrote:
Proxymarauderrush
At the time this hits 3:40, u have 2 marines, walloff depot/depot/rax is complete and ur reactor is just building. The aggresor has 1 marauder+1 or more scv's. Howto counter this proxymarauder:
1. Cancel reactor asap (u will loose it anyway)
2. Pull some scv's to tank and the 2 marines and chase the marauders down the ramp. Yes most will die, but thats ok.
3. Immediatly build a bunker at the ramp.Place rax behind it and start building marines.
Can some masterplayer confim this is the best way to handle proxymarauder given the situation at 3:40 (he 1 marauder+1 scv or more : you have 2 marines and scv's)? Confirmed, except moving back the rax is unnecessary.
All depend of your exact build order. He his an example of defence for rax 12, gaz15.
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On August 28 2013 18:23 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 18:10 BBLN wrote:On August 27 2013 22:09 beg wrote:On August 27 2013 21:35 BBLN wrote:I need help with TvP, I don't know what I do wrong every game. I am trying to do many drops and make economic damage but my engagements are always bad. I am thinking about doing scv pull every game now REPLAY you can do much more drops. look at 18:30 for example, you still have 6 medivacs with your main army. you can easily make 3 drops and use the rest of the army to snipe the 3rd/4th. think about multipronged attacks rather than just dropping. and yea, learn to take engagements a bit better. i'm sure you will learn it. your mistakes should be easy to fix. once you're decent at these two things, TvP becomes really fun. edit: i personally really like bigger drops too. 3-4 medivacs in the main makes most people pull their whole army and you have free reign over 3rd and 4th you mess most engagements up by not paying attention to your main army whatsoever. and some "interesting" decision making, like retreating when he only has 1 almost-dead collossus, but taking other engagements where he outnumbers/outteched you. and remember tight macro. you especially want to build your 3rd CC very timely, cause you're softcontaining the protoss and actively denying/delaying his 3rd. you can easily force a slight eco advantage in almost every TvP. one thing that helped me a lot in TvP was finding a hotkey setup that i felt comfortable with. dont listen to the perfection nazis who say you NEED to use 3 hotkeys. there's so many GMs who use less. i think mouzHeromarine uses two (1 bio, 2 vikings+ghost. idk how that makes sense), and i think dragon uses only one for whole army? i personally use two (one for bio+ghost and one for vikings). i think that's a really really nice simplification of perfect TvP micro. learn to hit EMPs well. for example, if you see a HT dont aim the EMP on him directly, but try to EMP his future position, you understand? it's easy to estimate cause they walk slow. try to hit him with the outer ring of your EMP to maximize your range. blanket their whole army with these things in mind. and dont position the ghosts too far back. just try to pay more attention to your army, do everything i said and your TvP will be fun and much better I put the ability target hotkey on E like Khaldor teaches in his video, now its easier to spam EMP, just like protoss spams T :D Thanks for the tips, but it just frustrating when you have much more army but two storms and your army is dead if he goes storms before colossi Honestly fuck drop play post 15 minute mark. It's really overrated and I believe it comes from a misunderstanding from lower level players/non terran players. Terran actually scales much better than protoss in the late game so army trading isn't beneficial for you. Also, babysitting drops is way too APM consuming the fact that your punished much for mismicro in big battles than the protoss player. So instead, post 15 minute mark just focus on getting the right unit composition, focus on scanning observers a lot, focus on great army movement and in-battle unit control.
I agree completely with this. Drop play is very overrated except v Z. Against P its not that good at all.
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On August 28 2013 20:24 Skyblueone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 19:57 BBLN wrote:
Hi, I need some help in TvT.
I am using Fantasy Mines drop into Banshee opener (from IMBABuilds), but many people on ladder started doing concussive shield cheese, and I am having really hard time defending it. I am trying to get widow mine very fast and repair the deopts on the wall to pump out more marines from my reactored barracks, but the economic damage is too much. I mean even if I scout it, it's little too late because the nature of the build. Any tips? Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:On May 16 2013 22:34 govie wrote:
Proxymarauderrush
At the time this hits 3:40, u have 2 marines, walloff depot/depot/rax is complete and ur reactor is just building. The aggresor has 1 marauder+1 or more scv's. Howto counter this proxymarauder:
1. Cancel reactor asap (u will loose it anyway)
2. Pull some scv's to tank and the 2 marines and chase the marauders down the ramp. Yes most will die, but thats ok.
3. Immediatly build a bunker at the ramp.Place rax behind it and start building marines.
Can some masterplayer confim this is the best way to handle proxymarauder given the situation at 3:40 (he 1 marauder+1 scv or more : you have 2 marines and scv's)? Confirmed, except moving back the rax is unnecessary. All depend of your exact build order. He his an example of defence for rax 12, gaz15.
What about 12 rax 13 gas?
I think if I build the factory close to the base I could get like widow mine or two and defend it, but is there any other way?
Edit:
My last TvP, I took some of your advices and won finally a lategame TvP, and it felt good :DD
Any tips? I think I wasn't aggressive at all, but my first hellbat drop was a success.
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TvT is so hard these days. People are sooooo aggressive.
So against protoss storm are you supposed to get hit by a little bit of it and run back as soon as possible, or are you supposed to split as the templars move forward like you would against banes?
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On August 28 2013 20:28 krooked wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 18:23 Hider wrote:On August 28 2013 18:10 BBLN wrote:On August 27 2013 22:09 beg wrote:On August 27 2013 21:35 BBLN wrote:I need help with TvP, I don't know what I do wrong every game. I am trying to do many drops and make economic damage but my engagements are always bad. I am thinking about doing scv pull every game now REPLAY you can do much more drops. look at 18:30 for example, you still have 6 medivacs with your main army. you can easily make 3 drops and use the rest of the army to snipe the 3rd/4th. think about multipronged attacks rather than just dropping. and yea, learn to take engagements a bit better. i'm sure you will learn it. your mistakes should be easy to fix. once you're decent at these two things, TvP becomes really fun. edit: i personally really like bigger drops too. 3-4 medivacs in the main makes most people pull their whole army and you have free reign over 3rd and 4th you mess most engagements up by not paying attention to your main army whatsoever. and some "interesting" decision making, like retreating when he only has 1 almost-dead collossus, but taking other engagements where he outnumbers/outteched you. and remember tight macro. you especially want to build your 3rd CC very timely, cause you're softcontaining the protoss and actively denying/delaying his 3rd. you can easily force a slight eco advantage in almost every TvP. one thing that helped me a lot in TvP was finding a hotkey setup that i felt comfortable with. dont listen to the perfection nazis who say you NEED to use 3 hotkeys. there's so many GMs who use less. i think mouzHeromarine uses two (1 bio, 2 vikings+ghost. idk how that makes sense), and i think dragon uses only one for whole army? i personally use two (one for bio+ghost and one for vikings). i think that's a really really nice simplification of perfect TvP micro. learn to hit EMPs well. for example, if you see a HT dont aim the EMP on him directly, but try to EMP his future position, you understand? it's easy to estimate cause they walk slow. try to hit him with the outer ring of your EMP to maximize your range. blanket their whole army with these things in mind. and dont position the ghosts too far back. just try to pay more attention to your army, do everything i said and your TvP will be fun and much better I put the ability target hotkey on E like Khaldor teaches in his video, now its easier to spam EMP, just like protoss spams T :D Thanks for the tips, but it just frustrating when you have much more army but two storms and your army is dead if he goes storms before colossi Honestly fuck drop play post 15 minute mark. It's really overrated and I believe it comes from a misunderstanding from lower level players/non terran players. Terran actually scales much better than protoss in the late game so army trading isn't beneficial for you. Also, babysitting drops is way too APM consuming the fact that your punished much for mismicro in big battles than the protoss player. So instead, post 15 minute mark just focus on getting the right unit composition, focus on scanning observers a lot, focus on great army movement and in-battle unit control. I agree completely with this. Drop play is very overrated except v Z. Against P its not that good at all.
Not good if you lose units or lose the medivacs. Otherwise, yes it is. Any kind of pressure, even if it's sniping a freaking single pylon, or just flying on his mini map forcing a warp in in his base is worth it if you don't lose your units. The main reason to drop is to pressure their multi tasking and defense. You don't have to do damage. It's like TvZ dropping. The drops usually aren't meant to do much more than pull the zerg to two different spots as you bum rush up the middle, or clear creep in peace.
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The problem with dropping late game is that at any point the protoss can decide to say, "eff it, I'm walking across the map" and you are 10-40 supply down (because it is out on the other side of the map) and you don't have enough to defend. Meanwhile the protoss throws down the nexus cannon and a feedback or two with storm to slow your drop attack down while they destroy your army and your production facilities.
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God damn TvZ is so frustrating for me. I play random and I think my win percentage is around 20-25% in that matchup since HOTS was released...
Platinum game. http://drop.sc/356041
I guess I just got outplayed here but I didn't feel like I made any SUPER glaring mistakes. I felt that I had zero chance throughout 100% of the game.
On the map Frost, I open CC/rax/gas, he goes for fast speed which makes me think a bust (my scouting SCV also sees a lot of Lings running toward my main). I put up another barracks behind my depot in anticipation while getting hellions. I correctly guessed he got a baneling nest up (upon checking the replay) but he didn't follow through. I had placed a 3rd CC down so I didn't think I'd be far behind (he had gone double expand). My hellion control was poor but I did kill a lot of lings and didn't take much damage.
I guess I was too late in putting down my third, and also maybe late in upgrades/medivacs.
He does a big bust (must have been at least....16 banes) but luckily I didn't take too much damage (lost resources tab shows him at almost double). I don't feel I can pressure since he's just making mass ling/bane on I think by now, 4 bases... Scan a spire and put up a lot of turrets, but he runs me around like a noob at my third/main. From there on he just harrasses me and I get frustrated and get fucking destroyed within a couple minutes.
Was he really just a lot better than me, or what the hell should I have done here?
I need to get better at mine control and keeping the hellions alive, and landing the third quicker I guess. Also, I could have used more raxes I know and muled harder... And maybe I put up too many turrets? But he did make a lot of mutas...
So frustrating. I won a single TvZ last season... (only maybe 7-8 games played, but still).
General tips/advice greatly appreciated.
Edit:
I think I forgot combat shields in that game... And also some marauders could have helped. Le sigh.
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1. I would build the CC on the low ground on 4p maps (i assume its 4p map i havent played it yet)
2. Start the bunker immediately and try to add 2 depot on it to reduce surface
3. Building the reactor with the rax is the quickest way to convert your money into units when the rax(edit: i mean fac ofc :D) is online
4. You had 2 gas and no ebays. Its ok to take the 2nd gas when you reach almost full saturation, but at least start your upgrades. Stim, Medivacs and stuff doesnt matter, but upgrades depend on each other (Edit3: You have to realize how important ups are as terran. You should see 3/3 as the final nail in the coffin if you havent killed the Z earlier.)
5. 1 min after you take your nat and see this much lings, build mines and burry them in corners, sight blockers and other sneaky positions.
6. Its 10 min and you have 800 gas. Dont even dare to take the nat gases if you have only 8 workers there
7. Building all those depots on one spot doesnt do anything. You can use 3 depots to create another wall elsewhere. Just place a few mines in front and its hard to penetrate and buys time.
8. Having no mines burrowed makes it easy to do runbys
the rest i couldnt care to watch
all in all in ZvT:
dont get so contained and get a super fast bunker
use the hellions to scout for roaches, if no roaches plant the 3rd at 9:30 or so and use bunkers and depots to wall that in
get mines and use them for mapcontrol
dont get gas when you dont spend it
Another edit: dont be afraid of banes, split your stuff and remain calm. If you produce stuff non stop of your buildings, zerg is hard pressed to do enough dmg to you.
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Chargelot................Archons are ridiculously hard to deal with. Marines don't seem to cut it. Marauders obviously don't.
EMPs need to go back to the radius it had way back when.
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Hellbats are good against it even if you dont have blue flame
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what's the best way to deal with a roach/baneling all in on 3 base?
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^ I'm pretty sure its mass bunkers. Seen some high lvl terrans defend it on stream (Shuttle, Teaja, forgg), and they make mass bunkers outside of their natural.
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On August 28 2013 18:23 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 18:10 BBLN wrote:On August 27 2013 22:09 beg wrote:On August 27 2013 21:35 BBLN wrote:I need help with TvP, I don't know what I do wrong every game. I am trying to do many drops and make economic damage but my engagements are always bad. I am thinking about doing scv pull every game now REPLAY you can do much more drops. look at 18:30 for example, you still have 6 medivacs with your main army. you can easily make 3 drops and use the rest of the army to snipe the 3rd/4th. think about multipronged attacks rather than just dropping. and yea, learn to take engagements a bit better. i'm sure you will learn it. your mistakes should be easy to fix. once you're decent at these two things, TvP becomes really fun. edit: i personally really like bigger drops too. 3-4 medivacs in the main makes most people pull their whole army and you have free reign over 3rd and 4th you mess most engagements up by not paying attention to your main army whatsoever. and some "interesting" decision making, like retreating when he only has 1 almost-dead collossus, but taking other engagements where he outnumbers/outteched you. and remember tight macro. you especially want to build your 3rd CC very timely, cause you're softcontaining the protoss and actively denying/delaying his 3rd. you can easily force a slight eco advantage in almost every TvP. one thing that helped me a lot in TvP was finding a hotkey setup that i felt comfortable with. dont listen to the perfection nazis who say you NEED to use 3 hotkeys. there's so many GMs who use less. i think mouzHeromarine uses two (1 bio, 2 vikings+ghost. idk how that makes sense), and i think dragon uses only one for whole army? i personally use two (one for bio+ghost and one for vikings). i think that's a really really nice simplification of perfect TvP micro. learn to hit EMPs well. for example, if you see a HT dont aim the EMP on him directly, but try to EMP his future position, you understand? it's easy to estimate cause they walk slow. try to hit him with the outer ring of your EMP to maximize your range. blanket their whole army with these things in mind. and dont position the ghosts too far back. just try to pay more attention to your army, do everything i said and your TvP will be fun and much better I put the ability target hotkey on E like Khaldor teaches in his video, now its easier to spam EMP, just like protoss spams T :D Thanks for the tips, but it just frustrating when you have much more army but two storms and your army is dead if he goes storms before colossi Honestly fuck drop play post 15 minute mark. It's really overrated and I believe it comes from a misunderstanding from lower level players/non terran players. Terran actually scales much better than protoss in the late game so army trading isn't beneficial for you. Also, babysitting drops is way too APM consuming the fact that your punished much for mismicro in big battles than the protoss player. So instead, post 15 minute mark just focus on getting the right unit composition, focus on scanning observers a lot, focus on great army movement and in-battle unit control.
im not sure why you say this. at which level do you think do drops start to be bad? arent even top koreans dismantling protoss with drops?
anyway, multipronged aggression in TvP is strong to get someone into masters.
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If I open Reaper FE in TvP, how do I stop a proxy Robo Immortal bust? I can never get enough Bunkers. One would think that 5 Bunkers plus a few extra Marines and some repairing SCVs would do the trick, but I haven't done it yet. How am I supposed to hold it?
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On August 30 2013 23:25 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 18:23 Hider wrote:On August 28 2013 18:10 BBLN wrote:On August 27 2013 22:09 beg wrote:On August 27 2013 21:35 BBLN wrote:I need help with TvP, I don't know what I do wrong every game. I am trying to do many drops and make economic damage but my engagements are always bad. I am thinking about doing scv pull every game now REPLAY you can do much more drops. look at 18:30 for example, you still have 6 medivacs with your main army. you can easily make 3 drops and use the rest of the army to snipe the 3rd/4th. think about multipronged attacks rather than just dropping. and yea, learn to take engagements a bit better. i'm sure you will learn it. your mistakes should be easy to fix. once you're decent at these two things, TvP becomes really fun. edit: i personally really like bigger drops too. 3-4 medivacs in the main makes most people pull their whole army and you have free reign over 3rd and 4th you mess most engagements up by not paying attention to your main army whatsoever. and some "interesting" decision making, like retreating when he only has 1 almost-dead collossus, but taking other engagements where he outnumbers/outteched you. and remember tight macro. you especially want to build your 3rd CC very timely, cause you're softcontaining the protoss and actively denying/delaying his 3rd. you can easily force a slight eco advantage in almost every TvP. one thing that helped me a lot in TvP was finding a hotkey setup that i felt comfortable with. dont listen to the perfection nazis who say you NEED to use 3 hotkeys. there's so many GMs who use less. i think mouzHeromarine uses two (1 bio, 2 vikings+ghost. idk how that makes sense), and i think dragon uses only one for whole army? i personally use two (one for bio+ghost and one for vikings). i think that's a really really nice simplification of perfect TvP micro. learn to hit EMPs well. for example, if you see a HT dont aim the EMP on him directly, but try to EMP his future position, you understand? it's easy to estimate cause they walk slow. try to hit him with the outer ring of your EMP to maximize your range. blanket their whole army with these things in mind. and dont position the ghosts too far back. just try to pay more attention to your army, do everything i said and your TvP will be fun and much better I put the ability target hotkey on E like Khaldor teaches in his video, now its easier to spam EMP, just like protoss spams T :D Thanks for the tips, but it just frustrating when you have much more army but two storms and your army is dead if he goes storms before colossi Honestly fuck drop play post 15 minute mark. It's really overrated and I believe it comes from a misunderstanding from lower level players/non terran players. Terran actually scales much better than protoss in the late game so army trading isn't beneficial for you. Also, babysitting drops is way too APM consuming the fact that your punished much for mismicro in big battles than the protoss player. So instead, post 15 minute mark just focus on getting the right unit composition, focus on scanning observers a lot, focus on great army movement and in-battle unit control. im not sure why you say this. at which level do you think do drops start to be bad? arent even top koreans dismantling protoss with drops? anyway, multipronged aggression in TvP is strong to get someone into masters.
Only in the mid-game. Past a certain point, it's pointless trying to drop because any good protoss will have observers in all the skylanes, at least one HT in every base, and cannons. Late-game TvP is a dance where both sides will baby-sit their massive army, you divert your attention away from your main army too long and you get destroyed by storms.
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EPT
