EPTWhat are your thoughts?
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 156
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
What are your thoughts? | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On August 19 2013 01:29 DBS wrote: I feel like a better approach is to try and get as close to this as possible: ~18 vikings ~20 ghosts ~8 Medivacs ~12 marauders ~ 55 marines this of course presuming lots of orbitals so you don't need as many SCV's. I just feel like this composition can beat any protoss composition without much of a problem, as long as you micro well. I also think its more viable then matching it to your opponents composition, because it is so easy for protoss to lose an army with 6 colossus and then remax on zealot templar archon., leaving you with a bad composition. Also i think that you really need to take down the colossus faster than 3 per colossus would let you. In the late game I agree that this composition is really strong but you can't just blindly builld 18 vikings in the mid game. You still have to scan his army and see what units you should build to be able to survive until you reach the late game  | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
If anyone can help me with replays and the BO will be great (any additional details about responding to the scout with reaper will be great) Tnx! | ||
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Sogetsu
514 Posts
On August 19 2013 00:32 Whatson wrote: Hellbats tank everything lol EDIT: the problem with hellbat marauder will always be that if your opponents sees your composition, he goes for mass robo units (immortals destroy hellbats and marauders so hard) and plays it out like he would vs a roach corrupter army with blink stalkers, sentries, and later archons. It's why marauder hellbat allins are popular, but not as a macro composition Yeah, but depends on the ammount of Immortals, also that is why I try to go fast Ghost to EMP them and got destroyed by Marauders. My worst problem isn't Immortals, it is Voids or Oracles if I didn't scout the tech switch, because anyway I am always trying to get the Ghosts | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On August 19 2013 01:55 dohgg wrote: Hey guys, i just purchaed Hots (was playing wol for 3 years), and i was looking for the a reaper + ebay block + pulling off gas TvP build with fast +1, If anyone can help me with replays and the BO will be great (any additional details about responding to the scout with reaper will be great) Tnx! Yeah im looking for this build too. I'd copy the one Flash used in the "hands of god" thread, but its too hard to see the supply/building and the camera cuts out... Also, I find i float a lot of money vs zerg when going 4M. Whats the ideal amount of production on 3base? | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 19 2013 04:36 Sajaki wrote: Yeah im looking for this build too. I'd copy the one Flash used in the "hands of god" thread, but its too hard to see the supply/building and the camera cuts out... Also, I find i float a lot of money vs zerg when going 4M. Whats the ideal amount of production on 3base? 8 Barracks w/ 2-3 tech labs, rest reactored 2 factories, 1 techlabbed, 1 reactored 1 reactored starport Although if your macro isn't strong enough to spend all your money on this amount of infrastructure than of course add more production/CCs. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On August 19 2013 01:31 U_G_L_Y wrote: The guide mentions getting two widow mines after the first 6 hellions. Then what? Are people generally making their starport on the factory's reactor or do they continue making constant widow mines? Does anyone have strong opinions on this or is it just a style choice? I had been trying both before this guide and I really don't know which is better... What are your thoughts? Hey, I have seen numerous things, so it may very well be stylistic, or a choice depending on if you see early aggression. I have seen people use the factory as an addon bitch to make reactors for barracks, I have also seen constant mine production, delaying the medivacs by getting a reactor on the starport itself, and I have seen people just swapping port on factory. I don't think it matters hugely, unless you opt for the addon bitch route, and you are under heavy pressure, as you can't make mines, it might mean you dying. | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
This season I carried on with the standard builds for TvZ (Inno triple CC) and TvP (reaper expand) and it's just been awful. I have a 30-35% w/l in both matchups and I just keep losing to all sorts, allin/cheesy builds, standard macro games, weird builds where people throw down structures for no apparent reason. I feel like my macro is good enough for plat, I feel like my micro could be a bit better when it comes to engagements I can be a bit sucky at splitting, burrowing my mines and dodging storms. My decision making is hit and miss. But I guess the point I am aiming for is what can I do to improve in general? I told myself I would play at least 100 games this season to help practice, I've only managed about 70-80 because I have been so unmotivated to play because of record and difficulty in tvz/tvp. But this is still the most games I've ever played in one season and I just seem to be getting worse. I look through the replays and sometimes I don't know why I lost, other times I can see why but I don't really seem to learn a lesson from it. I watch streams fairly often and lots of tournaments and it all seems so easy to the guys streaming on ladder and I don't really take anything away and think 'oh I need to do that more', etc. My clan try to help but normally it's very game specific, I show them replay and it's normally something different everytime. I was really hoping to get into dia or at least start facing more diamonds on ladder but this season has just been so bad that right now I just want to go back to all-inning every MU because I found it more fun and I had more success (even if it means 2rax'ing vs protoss). Sorry for the rant but I am just getting very fed up... TLDR - How can I improve in general? | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
On August 19 2013 07:10 mau5mat wrote: Hey, I have seen numerous things, so it may very well be stylistic, or a choice depending on if you see early aggression. I have seen people use the factory as an addon bitch to make reactors for barracks, I have also seen constant mine production, delaying the medivacs by getting a reactor on the starport itself, and I have seen people just swapping port on factory. I don't think it matters hugely, unless you opt for the addon bitch route, and you are under heavy pressure, as you can't make mines, it might mean you dying. This is extremely tricky in terms of balancing the gas / minerals income. Get all 4 gases up too quick and you can't get enough production facilitites. Don't get enough gas and your production facilities are idle a lot as you wait for the gas for addons. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On August 19 2013 08:28 KingofGods wrote: This is extremely tricking in terms of balancing the gas / minerals income. Get all 4 gases up too quick and you can't get enough production facilitites. Don't get enough gas and your production facilities are idle a lot as you wait for the gas for addons. Well, yeah obviously, but the gas timings for CC first into 3OC and double ups are pretty well ironed out, so it should be a non-issue. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
In all the recent lategame TvP scenarii I saw, only ForGG used Hellbats (yesterday against HerO, Red City, ATC Loser Bracket Finals). He refused to build Ghosts, though, and had a huge eco advantage from a sniped third in the midgame, so it wasn't exactly a common scenario, but his trades weren't efficient at all. On August 19 2013 01:31 U_G_L_Y wrote: The guide mentions getting two widow mines after the first 6 hellions. Then what? Are people generally making their starport on the factory's reactor or do they continue making constant widow mines? Does anyone have strong opinions on this or is it just a style choice? I had been trying both before this guide and I really don't know which is better... What are your thoughts? Several options:
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On August 19 2013 08:07 Marathi wrote: Well this has been the worst season I have ever played. I made the decision at the beginning of last season to stop all-inning all my games and learn to play standard builds and had some good success with it (66% w/l with about 50 games played at plat (still all-inning TvT)). This season I carried on with the standard builds for TvZ (Inno triple CC) and TvP (reaper expand) and it's just been awful. I have a 30-35% w/l in both matchups and I just keep losing to all sorts, allin/cheesy builds, standard macro games, weird builds where people throw down structures for no apparent reason. I feel like my macro is good enough for plat, I feel like my micro could be a bit better when it comes to engagements I can be a bit sucky at splitting, burrowing my mines and dodging storms. My decision making is hit and miss. But I guess the point I am aiming for is what can I do to improve in general? I told myself I would play at least 100 games this season to help practice, I've only managed about 70-80 because I have been so unmotivated to play because of record and difficulty in tvz/tvp. But this is still the most games I've ever played in one season and I just seem to be getting worse. I look through the replays and sometimes I don't know why I lost, other times I can see why but I don't really seem to learn a lesson from it. I watch streams fairly often and lots of tournaments and it all seems so easy to the guys streaming on ladder and I don't really take anything away and think 'oh I need to do that more', etc. My clan try to help but normally it's very game specific, I show them replay and it's normally something different everytime. I was really hoping to get into dia or at least start facing more diamonds on ladder but this season has just been so bad that right now I just want to go back to all-inning every MU because I found it more fun and I had more success (even if it means 2rax'ing vs protoss). Sorry for the rant but I am just getting very fed up... TLDR - How can I improve in general? You really need to post replays. Even if there are different individual things each game that are causing you to lose, viewing multiple games (with a level head) can help you identify patterns. Are you supply-blocked commonly? Do you add production too slowly? Lack scouting? Dont follow the matchup flow well (like denying protoss third base, zerg forth)? Also, do you have a wide variety of builds or do you have 1 general BO per matchup. One of the best ways to deal with the variety of builds a race can through at you is to practice one build per race yourself, that's safe and standard, and iron out all the kinks. Determine what cheeses and allins are deadly, which comps you need to adapt your comp to, etc. | ||
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pali_
Germany48 Posts
Blink Stalker all-in, blink ready short after 7min mark, Belshir Vestige: Please note: The guy was random, hence the buildings at the ramp. Can someone please look at this and give me some tips about how to eff-ing hold this? I was playing the Demuslim build where I pull scvs out of gas after 100 (reaper + reactor). Once I scouted the twilight council, my plan was to get a tank out asap, thats why I put down the second gas at that point. Was the third rax too much? Bunkers too late? Some other things? Thanks! | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
I'm only diamond myself but I think you should rush out medivacs and go for a counter attack. Obviously you want stim ASAP and if he gets your tech lab its probably gg | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
I'm not sure about this because with mech my main problem is gas and not minerals and i normally can not land my 3rd CC so fast because of the risk to get dropped and marines take out a CC really fast. Isn't it better to delay my 3rd CC after my additional Facs or do i need this addiitional income for turrets etc? | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On August 19 2013 18:04 saaaa wrote: As a meching terran do i need to go for a double CC after Gas First Opening in TvT? I'm not sure about this because with mech my main problem is gas and not minerals and i normally can not land my 3rd CC so fast because of the risk to get dropped and marines take out a CC really fast. Isn't it better to delay my 3rd CC after my additional Facs or do i need this addiitional income for turrets etc? If you scout your opponent being really greedy and therefor not able to punish your early 3rd, I'd say go for it (or try to go kill him), but apart from that I'd say you're better off adding more Factories first. As Mech is rather slow, it's hard to defend many bases with just few units, so you want to gather some stuff to be able to hold a 3rd. If you're just afraid of drops, a reactored Factory cranking out Mines is fine though, which would mean maybe just 1 more Fac before the 3rd. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On August 19 2013 04:36 Sajaki wrote: Yeah im looking for this build too. I'd copy the one Flash used in the "hands of god" thread, but its too hard to see the supply/building and the camera cuts out... Also, I find i float a lot of money vs zerg when going 4M. Whats the ideal amount of production on 3base? http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-demuslims-reaper-fe/ This build sounds similar to the one you are talking about. Not sure if it has the ebay block incorporated though. | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
On August 19 2013 18:46 A Wild Sosd wrote: http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvp/tvp-demuslims-reaper-fe/ This build sounds similar to the one you are talking about. Not sure if it has the ebay block incorporated though. Yeah thats pretty much the build, tho i always see pros (and including flash on his APM video incorporating ebay block with reaper opening, so its a bit sad its not included in the BO, because i find it very effective to get a good eco lead with it). I tried it few times, and the minerals gas are so tightwith it, if anyone having any experience with it vs 1 basing prottos, then i'll be glad to hear some adjusting rules. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On August 19 2013 19:13 dohgg wrote: Yeah thats pretty much the build, tho i always see pros (and including flash on his APM video incorporating ebay block with reaper opening, so its a bit sad its not included in the BO, because i find it very effective to get a good eco lead with it). I tried it few times, and the minerals gas are so tightwith it, if anyone having any experience with it vs 1 basing prottos, then i'll be glad to hear some adjusting rules. If I go for the ebay block I usually just go for it after dropping my CC which delays everything else by a bit but is still ok. | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
On August 19 2013 19:42 A Wild Sosd wrote: If I go for the ebay block I usually just go for it after dropping my CC which delays everything else by a bit but is still ok. So do you get supply before cc? cuz then i think you'll be supply blocked quite hard with eabyblock + supply after cc | ||
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