EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 152
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:52 Kid-Fox wrote: How do you actually win after a 'successful' 2rax allin vs zerg? If I proxy 2rax and get the bunker up in time and destroy the natural hatch, sometimes my opponent stubbornly stays in the game, masses banelings and speedlings, and goes for a huge bust to counter, and either I just die straight up or we break even. Most of my money went to bunkers/marines so I have to make a big wall to stop the bust, and with all the units, zerg simply expands and it seems like we're even. The only way zerg gets even is if his bust does massive damage, which it shouldn't, because you rally your raxes back to your main base, send all your marines home except for one or two in your original bunker, bunker the front of your base and build tanks, not WMs or hellions. If zerg tries to expand after a failed baneling bust, he's dead. | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:52 Kid-Fox wrote: How do you actually win after a 'successful' 2rax allin vs zerg? If I proxy 2rax and get the bunker up in time and destroy the natural hatch, sometimes my opponent stubbornly stays in the game, masses banelings and speedlings, and goes for a huge bust to counter, and either I just die straight up or we break even. Most of my money went to bunkers/marines so I have to make a big wall to stop the bust, and with all the units, zerg simply expands and it seems like we're even. As the poster above stated, you are massively ahead.. now just wall off with 3 rax which is pretty hard to break especially on his low econ. And keep an eye out on what he's doing. Also you should add a quick 2 gas to transition into hellions so you can take map control and make it hard on him to play very greedy. Another factor is what you do once you killed his hatch, how many bunkers you have there etc.. If he gave up his hatch and is just building stuff in his main, consider adding some more bunkers at his natural or sending all your marines home (leaving one in the bunker to force him to waste some banes on it). Losing those marines for free can make it harder for you. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On August 15 2013 08:03 iAmJeffReY wrote: Very true. I have low as hell apm... blizz apm 130-160. Sc2gears, which I go off of, I'm around 150-190 max average. I trounce players with double my APM that are on the higher end of masters around 1500+ points. APM is all about how effectively you use it. I may have 160 apm, but my EAPM is around 130-135... I bet (to the guy talking about having 200+/- apm) that your sc2gears eapm is around below 100. ...mmmm you would have to have the worst micro possible to be losing with 'big big supply leads in games'... I would call bunk on that 'better macro' call. Yes, I am just randomly bragging about my amazing micro and APM... I sure as hell didn't get to dia by my game sense, because I have none. I know 3 builds, basically, and I don't understand any of the match ups. I am a gold player at best in everything beside macro. But nvm I must be lying since its impossible to lose with a macro advantage. edit: I checked in sc2gears and you are correct, my eAPM stands at or around 100. The interesting part is that my opponents have even lower, so my point still stands. | ||
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Matta
United States116 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On August 16 2013 00:30 Matta wrote: After I got beat down twice last night by gateway units (MSC/stalkers and a Chargelot rush) I'm thinking about integrating WMs into my opening against Protoss, with a 1rax FE then reactor, kinda similar to a vZ opening. I'm in gold league so it seems like the meta is about half 1-base all-ins, half macro expansions. I'm bad at fighting late game Protoss but I'm much worse at the 1-base play. You could try for a slightly older style with fast tanks instead of medivacs. I don't like using WMs TvP outside of a marine mine drop, they don't cut it defensively for me At the guy two posts above with the amazing macro, post a replay and we'll judge for ourselves how true that statement is  | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
 What I did say was that my macro is my strongest asset, and that I lose in spite of being ahead of my opponent macro wise. Which, I guess, isn't cool to say at all. But I can always provide replays of games I throw away because I suck, even though I am ahead in food  | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
Worker production, however, is something you can you compare. Just keep in mind that terran scv count will always be slightly lower than the other races because a) it takes time to morph cc into orbital and 2) terrans don't have anything like chrono to boost scv production. Obviously they have mules to compensate. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
I get the vibe that people think I'm bragging.. I'm not. Just saying that macro isn't as important as people make it out to be, because you can be a shitty player even though your macro is better than opponents. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Matta
United States116 Posts
On August 16 2013 00:49 Whatson wrote: You could try for a slightly older style with fast tanks instead of medivacs. I don't like using WMs TvP outside of a marine mine drop, they don't cut it defensively for me At the guy two posts above with the amazing macro, post a replay and we'll judge for ourselves how true that statement is Well, that would be the idea: stabilize with a couple quick mines and be ready for more in case there's pressure. If there isn't, then those would be set up for a WM/drop. I just find myself struggling so much with map control on Protoss and its so frustrating. My TvP is real bad and reflecting upon the last week of play, I'm only really winning when I hold off an all-in and then can take advantage of being ready to expand. | ||
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Matta
United States116 Posts
On August 16 2013 02:29 krooked wrote: Yes, that is true. But the thing is that I literally don't understand any match ups, I play very one dimensional and I have pretty poor micro. So all I'm saying is that the way I see it, my by far strongest point is macro / mechanics (excluding micro). So how am I even winning games if not via macro? I get the vibe that people think I'm bragging.. I'm not. Just saying that macro isn't as important as people make it out to be, because you can be a shitty player even though your macro is better than opponents. You could be winning via your opponents mistakes. I feel like much of my wins at gold is predicated upon my opponents making mistakes - in a TvT I played against, I was able to siege his 2-base with better siege positioning and because I was ahead in upgrades, he wasn't able to break out. He could have easily expanded earlier but he didn't, so I was able to then take map control and transition to air. He kept producing siege tanks instead of switching to Ravens (another mistake on his part). By time he did have ravens and was using HSM, I was at 7 Battlecruisers. Or when I did TvZ; my split wasn't good but he didn't build muta so I could expand easily behind my army of widow mines, so I never had to worry about macro production, and could keep all my WM at the front instead of having a few scattered around my mineral lines. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On August 16 2013 02:57 KingofGods wrote: Terran macro is relatively easier compared to other races. To compensate, they make terran micro relatively harder than other races. That's just how it is. ah I see, so I'm worse than all of my opponents but win by way of easier race (Y) | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On August 16 2013 03:49 fdsdfg wrote: My friend is having trouble in TvP, holding off a 1-base aggression with an early expand build. Are there any good replays or VODs of someone holding this? Holding what? Your post is extremely vague given the vast amount of stuff Protoss can do on one base. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
On August 16 2013 03:40 krooked wrote: ah I see, so I'm worse than all of my opponents but win by way of easier race (Y) ........... Because that is absolutely, totally, what I said. I wasn't even addressing whether you had good or bad macro or micro. I was simply stating facts. It would be like as if I said scvs have more health than drones and probes and you responding, "OMG Yes. The only reason I win games is because of scv imbalance and my scvs having more health". | ||
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Hydrolisk
Canada7 Posts
I'm having some massive problems with supply blocks and my macro, they are falling apart. Does anyone have tips for keeping up with your macro and making sure you keep building depots? Because as of right now, I am up to 3min+ supply blocks (but still managing to win, somehow) and I don't know how to avoid that. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On August 16 2013 05:03 KingofGods wrote: ........... Because that is absolutely, totally, what I said. I wasn't even addressing whether you had good or bad macro or micro. I was simply stating facts. It would be like as if I said scvs have more health than drones and probes and you responding, "OMG Yes. The only reason I win games is because of scv imbalance and my scvs having more health". Can't see any other reason for you to say it, really. Basically, the discussion is whether I have better macro than my opponents, which at least iamjeffrey doubts (and as I understand it, you too) - Then you chime in and say "well terran is easier to macro than the other races". How am I to understand it differently than as an argument that says "you may think you have better macro than your opponent, but actually terran is simply easier to macro with". I mean, why else would you write that? | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
On August 16 2013 05:09 Hydrolisk wrote: Not sure where to ask this, but I'll try here :/ I'm having some massive problems with supply blocks and my macro, they are falling apart. Does anyone have tips for keeping up with your macro and making sure you keep building depots? Because as of right now, I am up to 3min+ supply blocks (but still managing to win, somehow) and I don't know how to avoid that. Have the same 2 scvs building supply depots. When the game gets into later stages, you will need 3 building. So as soon as the scv finishes building the supply depot, have it build another one. This also helps with nice building placement too. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On August 16 2013 05:09 Hydrolisk wrote: Not sure where to ask this, but I'll try here :/ I'm having some massive problems with supply blocks and my macro, they are falling apart. Does anyone have tips for keeping up with your macro and making sure you keep building depots? Because as of right now, I am up to 3min+ supply blocks (but still managing to win, somehow) and I don't know how to avoid that. Go into custom games, sort by "trainer" and choose Multitask Trainer (HOTS). Basically it forces you to macro etc and defend against drops, attack waves etc while having to macro a probe from a zergling. That should help. Other than that I guess just getting into a good habit of always having 2 scvs making supdeps will help a lot (past the normal timings ofc) | ||
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