On February 16 2013 18:06 SeinGalton wrote: Hello Blade.
Just wanted to drop in and say thanks for these tutorials. I've just received a HoTS key, and being on the look out for build orders and strats I stumbled upon these to find they're exactly the type of things I'd like to do. Your ZvP is real sexy, I love the transition into mass ground instead of Broodlord and your vsT feels like a real throwback to BW days. Thank you sir, keep making them and I'll keep watching them.
Also I really need some help on this next part. I am doing a swarmhost zvt but I need to know which people would prefer, would you prefer it be vs bio + mass widow mine, or would you like to see standard bio + tank?
On February 16 2013 19:02 Existor wrote: I prefer to see both, or combination of both
Not a bad idea I will probably just do 3 parts then and do one with bio + widow and the other bio + tanks.
Jost post all your games with Swarm Hosts against skilled Terrans
Well for the videos I played some really sick zvt's and I am picking both that will feature very good games and show case how to use them pretty effectively.
If anybody were to call these players I played bad I would smack them for stupidity
Awesome for making these vids. I've been trying the strategies displayed in videos 3 and 4 for the last couple weeks. It's awesome to see they are still viable in GM play.
My only problem now is deciding which I favor... which strat I use (hydra den or spire) usually comes down to how my economy turns out by the time I reach T2 lol.
Great videos, Blade, these are great for the zerg hots community! I'm so sick of people just complaining about how much swarm hosts suck, you are proving them wrong.
On February 19 2013 12:27 ghost_face wrote: Great videos, Blade, these are great for the zerg hots community! I'm so sick of people just complaining about how much swarm hosts suck, you are proving them wrong.
Yeah I'm starting to like them more than Vipers these days (I felt opposite when I was newer in the beta). They aren't just great with the Zerg ground army, but they are just so damn fun with Muta play, very micro intensive strats using both those in your composition, and you can hit the enemy from so many angles at once. Even though SH are pretty immobile units, you can make them feel extremely mobile if you mix in spire units and nydus.
hehe thanks for the positive feedback. While I will be show casing the part 3 video of swarmhosts vs bio + tank. I am thinking they just aren't that great verse bio. I am definitely having pretty bad results if the terran drops a lot right as soon as swarmhosts pop because you don't have the army supply to deal with a 3 medivac drop in your main and a push at your fourth (all while they are probably taking a 4'th themselves).
So far if terran doesn't mass drop verse swarmhosts their awesome, but with the new speed medivac they kinda make going swarmhosts really hard and I am just thinking it's better to go muta first. Dunno zvt so hard right now if any of you have suggestions for unit compositions to try feel free to say and I will give it a shot most likely.
On February 19 2013 13:50 blade55555 wrote: hehe thanks for the positive feedback. While I will be show casing the part 3 video of swarmhosts vs bio + tank. I am thinking they just aren't that great verse bio. I am definitely having pretty bad results if the terran drops a lot right as soon as swarmhosts pop because you don't have the army supply to deal with a 3 medivac drop in your main and a push at your fourth (all while they are probably taking a 4'th themselves).
So far if terran doesn't mass drop verse swarmhosts their awesome, but with the new speed medivac they kinda make going swarmhosts really hard and I am just thinking it's better to go muta first. Dunno zvt so hard right now if any of you have suggestions for unit compositions to try feel free to say and I will give it a shot most likely.
Yeah, Muta first seems to be working better for me. Just have to make sure I don't get damaged by the harass too much so your economy can support it.
I've been getting overlord speed relatively fast and make sure I leave a bunch around to scout for drops, and as long as economy can support it I've been doing Mutalisk play. This for the most part seems to have discouraged drop play since you can snipe them if you spot them away from land. Really liking early OL speed and it works fine w/ a Roach opener since you are going gas anyway.
At that point they ideally have a hard time expanding or go in to somewhat of a turtle mode w/ rines/widows to secure an expansion, which is when I make some SH, and I find SH/Muta so damn fun. Even though Muta cant harass as hard w/ Widows around, you don't need to since SH can break them. Also I love how you can hit and run along with the waves and heal up between them, this keeps the enemy busy long enough to both spawn another wave and get some muta regen, also when retreating to regen can hit them at their base to make them hesitant to push, which makes SH even stronger and negatives the relative immobility of the army.
Also for the composition I make a few Roaches/Banes. Roaches just to suck up damage for the Locusts, instead of letting the Locusts go in first. Followed by the Banes, with locusts behind. That way the locusts can deal their damage rather than absorb hits (with each doing almost as much damage as a Hydra I like to use them like Hydras rather than how I'd use Roaches or Broodlings). Usually evens things up a bit if the MMM ball got big, and it's mostly Marines at that point usually since the Mutas are around.
Usually don't even need to bust out the T3 units, although I get a Hive just in case. And I've found myself going greater spire rather than Ultra. The Corruptors snipe their mobile detection so SH are near impossible to take out w/ only scans if u micro between waves, and leave Marines or Widows as their only real option to stop Mutas, and BL are strong against both of those.
Curious to see if you have tried any other comps; specificalyl JD's hydraling zvt, i would love to see a tutorial based on that. I don't think he's doing an optimal build and was jsut messing around, but maybe delaying the ultralisks for an earlier 3rd evo would make that build better. I don't know.
For reference for anyone else - JD played hots last night and used hydra ling with ranged ups (double evo), added infestors to fast hive for vipers for an early end-game comp of hydra/viper/festor and adding in ultralisks for tanking. It was *intersting* but definitely not refined.
On February 21 2013 05:40 Jowj wrote: Curious to see if you have tried any other comps; specificalyl JD's hydraling zvt, i would love to see a tutorial based on that. I don't think he's doing an optimal build and was jsut messing around, but maybe delaying the ultralisks for an earlier 3rd evo would make that build better. I don't know.
For reference for anyone else - JD played hots last night and used hydra ling with ranged ups (double evo), added infestors to fast hive for vipers for an early end-game comp of hydra/viper/festor and adding in ultralisks for tanking. It was *intersting* but definitely not refined.
I felt that opening was far inferior to Roach/Hydra or Roach/Muta openers. Lings don't cut it with the commonly used units anymore.
Although that might change once the next balance patch goes through and moves Hellbat research. But even then it's going to be depending on your tech path/planned upgrades. I tend to steer away from Lings when going ranged upgrades as mentioned here.
The reason I feel this way: If you are going Hydra you easily have the gas to support Roaches in addition, and both take much better advantage of the upgrades. Early game Banelings are much more useful than Lings nowdays (especially if you are going Hydra, they can handle all the units Hydras can't handle well all the way up until Colossus come out). Banelings work better with Roaches than Lings imo as well in most compositions
The best use I've had for Lings in ZvT these days is for a tech switch later game to perform a runby unexpectedly, to deny expansions, or counterattack after a battle before the enemy has recovered.
But as I mentioned earlier, I'm favoring Muta openers rather than Hydra openers in ZvT. Unlike ZvP, Terran doesn't really have any midgame air units that counter Mutas very hard, and forcing Marine/Thor/Widows is easier to handle with the new HotS units/balance changes. You just have to be more careful w/ Mutas than before.
Also keep in mind Marine/Thor/Widows typically aren't the most mobile army, sets up for the ling runbys or counter attacks perfectly.
Zerg verse Terran - roach/ling/bane/swarmhost into ultralisk
Description: Going the roach/ling/bane/swarmhost composition, why I go roach/ling/bane and then swarmhosts and how to transition, when to transition to what and why.
EPT
