|
On February 07 2013 06:30 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:28 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 06:19 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 06:12 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 05:58 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 05:52 doggy wrote:
As Kyo already pointed out, this push was bad, or i should rather say not properly, executed from protoss. Hoping that toss will move out that late is just a gamble. A Immortal sentry allin is supposed to hit your third (not moving out) at 9.30. Everything else is fail and doesnt really show how to fight off the dangerous immortal allin.
I dont see how your build (maybe with saccing the third) would had been able to hold that. However i know that youre a pretty good player, so dont take the critique wrong :-P
If people dont believe that 9.30 is the time a immo sentry allin should hit (not moveout), just watch one of partings games. There is parting and there are other protosses. Partings immortal all ins are stronger then any other so 99% of the players don't move out till 9:30. Also I would have to watch parting immortal all in to see when he hits as I NEVER see the immortal all in at the third base at 9:30 in GSL or proleague and I watch those quiet a bit. The only way I can see them getting to the third by 9:30 is if the zerg player doesn't try to delay the push at all with lings or anything. Which also just goes to my point how many partings do you or anyone else on this forum play? Probably none so this really doesn't change anything. I would love to test this verse Partings immortal all in, but unfortunately that isn't practical  I want to add people are saying his push was bad and yet this is what 99% of protoss players move out at. Not like this guide was implemented for top 5% of Korean Pro's or something who already know how to deal with it anyway in WoL and I imagine will still beat it in hots with or without swarmhosts. You dont need to be a korean pro to execute the first 10 minutes (without any pressure, just following a simple build order and using chronoboost accordingly) to be able to move out at this time. It maybe wasnt bad executed. To use the right words, it is a delayed immortal (semi-)allin with the MS core envolved. I guess people are practising it like that because they want to test which one is better. Still i do believe that almost every standard GM protoss can use the same BO and timing (just timing, neither micro nor control) than parting does. Still, for anything below GM this build should work very well. But it isnt the "real" WoL allin version of it. If you face that one, you have either gone 2 base tech or you do have nothing but lings, roaches and maybe queens and spines with it. But no lair tech units I am telling you, you can. If you start lair at 7:20 you will get them out in time. Lings to delay the push as well which isn't hard to do and will give you the time to get them out. I have faced about 9 immortals past couple weeks and haven't lost once as of yet and this is at the top GM on hots. Edited the post above and added a link. Please dont tell me you need to have 300 APM to execute the simplest macro in the first 9 minutes of the game. Like i pointed out, people want to try and see which BO works better. Tests new viability of hots units envolved in old WoL allins. I dont say your tutorial is bad, it is very well explained and fun to watch. Still it is just a semi-allinnish delayed version of it. So that proves my point. Parting was halfway across the map at 9:30. This was on a small map like ohana as well.
Okay, maybe 9.30 hitting wasnt exactly correct, still you cant deny that the protoss you've played moved out 40 seconds later because he was doing a other version of this build.
Edit the second: To be really correct, he was halfway across at 9.22 ^^
I didnt say it doesnt work, i rather wanted to say that i would really like to see how this build works out (like you mentioned, it is possible to buy time in some scenarios) against the standard not delayed version of this push.
Edit to your edit.. Im still 100% convinced that if you give the same BO parting used to any GM protoss there is, he can move out at the same time. There is nothing more to do than using the same BO, microing probes (close patches) and using chrono boost accordlingy. Being a "pro" or "not-pro" doesnt change anything about that :-P
I also can reach 44 supply at 5.50 ingame minutes, or max out at the same second as stephano does doing the famous roach allin.Does that make me a professional or does this say that im near that level? Nope! :-P
|
really enjoyed that video. You dealt with the subject in a very logical manner, almost like a scientist. Some people will complain but i enjoyed.
Are the locusts able to take down that army? It did look pretty strong
|
On February 07 2013 12:26 dyirsc2 wrote:
really enjoyed that video. You dealt with the subject in a very logical manner, almost like a scientist. Some people will complain but i enjoyed.
Are the locusts able to take down that army? It did look pretty strong
Yes if the toss engages he will have to deal with lings + the 2 spines I made + the locusts. If he engaged he'd lose his army so his decision to retreat was the best one even though it put him really far behind.
|
I learned something in this video.
You can get spores without an evo chamber now o.o
I guess I really should start to play HotS a bit more lol, thanks for the vid 
|
Thank you for doing this! Very cool--keep it up!
|
Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial!
|
On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial!
Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT.
|
On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT.
I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful.
|
On February 07 2013 18:32 doggy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT. I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful.
Yup I am with you there. Really kinda mad about it lol and their reasoning blows my mind T_T
|
On February 07 2013 19:15 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:32 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT. I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful. Yup I am with you there. Really kinda mad about it lol and their reasoning blows my mind T_T
Problem is corruptors are not an option against void rays, so you try hydras, but they suck against carriers and they still have storms with their air army...
|
On February 07 2013 19:31 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 19:15 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 18:32 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT. I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful. Yup I am with you there. Really kinda mad about it lol and their reasoning blows my mind T_T Problem is corruptors are not an option against void rays, so you try hydras, but they suck against carriers and they still have storms with their air army...
Well I think you will agree that Carrier + Storm + Void Ray should defeat Hydras. Kind of an unfair comparison you are making there.
|
On February 07 2013 19:45 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 19:31 Musicus wrote:On February 07 2013 19:15 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 18:32 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT. I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful. Yup I am with you there. Really kinda mad about it lol and their reasoning blows my mind T_T Problem is corruptors are not an option against void rays, so you try hydras, but they suck against carriers and they still have storms with their air army... Well I think you will agree that Carrier + Storm + Void Ray should defeat Hydras. Kind of an unfair comparison you are making there.
Well it's more we can't counter it with anything else. Hydra/corruptor are the only good AA especially after infestor nerfs :D. So can't think of it that way.
Anyway don't want to derail this thread with anymore sky toss, if there is ever a counter to sky toss without a patch my mind will be blown and I will make a video, until then it will just be different. Next few videos will feature zvp then a few zvt and probably 1 or 2 zvz's, but mainly zvp/zvt since zvz is mainly muta focused.
|
Thanks for doing this on the worst maps to defend an immortal all in, or one of maybe ohana is the worst.
Thanks again, subscribed.
|
On February 07 2013 19:45 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 19:31 Musicus wrote:On February 07 2013 19:15 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 18:32 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT. I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful. Yup I am with you there. Really kinda mad about it lol and their reasoning blows my mind T_T Problem is corruptors are not an option against void rays, so you try hydras, but they suck against carriers and they still have storms with their air army... Well I think you will agree that Carrier + Storm + Void Ray should defeat Hydras. Kind of an unfair comparison you are making there.
I completely agree 100%. Hydras should not win, the problem is we have no stronger AA option. So maybe a stronger anti air option for zerg or buff hydras so that at least the second or third remax beats that army, right now it's just a meat grinder. But knowing Blizz they will nerf Protoss air instead  .
Well I am looking forward to Blade's video on how to be agressive against the P's 3rd when they go air, so they can't build up that army. My Hydra agression always seem to hit to late.
|
Nice educational video, and yes, not ALL of us are top GMs here on TeamLiquid forums!
So, a big thanks for sharing with us, mortal, trying to learn the new units, Bronze Hots Zergs ;-)
Edit: whats up with time ? February 07 2013 23:52 o.O All of a sudden i live in KOrea time :p
|
Great video. Not sure why this BO is being scrutinized just because the Protoss player isn't Code S. It's GM ffs and has been explained that the push can be delayed well into the 10 minute mark with ling harassment.
|
awesome vid, opened a little bit my eyes after my first 2 days of getting crushed in the beta.
You explain everything as it was so simple, I will try it and find out if it really is.
|
Thanks for the video! I enjoyed it very much!
|
On February 07 2013 21:48 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 19:45 dani` wrote:On February 07 2013 19:31 Musicus wrote:On February 07 2013 19:15 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 18:32 doggy wrote:On February 07 2013 17:14 blade55555 wrote:On February 07 2013 17:09 Apevia wrote:Thanks for the video! If you come across a game that you beat a Toss that plays ground + voids or just general skytoss, I would really appreciate a tutorial! Only time I ever beat sky toss is when I am so far ahead it doesn't matter what they do. Otherwise I am in same boat as you TT. I feel the same, voidrays are really a pain in the ass. I still cannot believe that blizzard posted two days ago that they won't nerf voidrays and that they feel like the unit isnt too powerful. Yup I am with you there. Really kinda mad about it lol and their reasoning blows my mind T_T Problem is corruptors are not an option against void rays, so you try hydras, but they suck against carriers and they still have storms with their air army... Well I think you will agree that Carrier + Storm + Void Ray should defeat Hydras. Kind of an unfair comparison you are making there. I completely agree 100%. Hydras should not win, the problem is we have no stronger AA option. So maybe a stronger anti air option for zerg or buff hydras so that at least the second or third remax beats that army, right now it's just a meat grinder. But knowing Blizz they will nerf Protoss air instead . Well I am looking forward to Blade's video on how to be agressive against the P's 3rd when they go air, so they can't build up that army. My Hydra agression always seem to hit to late.
The one where they go air may be a week. I want to test something that might be better then what I am doing now .
Thanks for the feedback guys if you have any tips on what you want to here more about please let me know!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
