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On January 17 2013 08:50 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 08:42 Iron_ wrote:
I play Terran and I do play both of these maps. I think Alikon has "Xel Naga overkill" going on, I mean does that map really need 4 towers? But overall both maps have played out decent so far.
The biggest reason I did not veto either of these (and instead whacked a veto on Cloud kingdom), is the free Zerg maphack they get on the front of your nat on certain maps. Daybreak isn't quite as bad, but they can still see you moving out for every single early game timing you can have. Cloud is just fucking riduculous with that Ovie just sitting there until mid game.
Maybe it's a lame reason to like the new maps, but not having an ovie see everything I'm doing for 12 minutes just feels better.
Can't you build a barracks next to that ledge, get some marines, lift the barracks for vision and then kill it? Don't you usually want to have some raxes on the lowground anyway to serve as a wall?
Your barracks needs to either be making marines or building add-ons early on. There is a reason you never see people placing barracks not in the wall off to kill overlords anymore.
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Hey all,
By not drone scouting you may lose 100 minerals, but that makes up for a lost game doesn't it?
Regards Jake~
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On January 17 2013 08:55 Cainam wrote:
I have them both vetoed and have still gotten Akilon 5 or 6 times. I've never once gotten a vetoed map before and I've been playing since damn near release. Anyone else have this issue?
You understand that just because something is vetoed doesn't mean you won't get it, right? it all depends on what the other play has Vetoed, and what available players are on the server that match your skill level.
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It just means you have a higher chance of avoiding depending on the amount of people player when your on. Their skill level, and there vetoed maps.
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When I play this map I tend to expand in a horizontal line so that it's easier for me (as a Terran player) to defend consequent expansions since it's on the path to my opponent. This gives me a pretty good supply line and I reinforce this by walling off the top or bottom of these expansions (depending on the spawn positions).
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Newkirk is just kind of bad IMO. The 3rd base is hard to secure, the main base is huge. Overall terrible for a protoss player like me, and if that wasn't enough, the air distance to the other main is really close while the ground distance is super long, which means stuff like drops are super annoying.
I played Newkirk a few times, and the only good thing I could say about it for protoss is that the drop route is really obvious, terrans can circle around to the back, but most just drop on the side as it's super convenient. I vetoed the map anyways though, because its just too hard to get a 3rd while defending against constant threat of drops with a huge main.
I love Akilon Flats vs. terran, because the rush distance is long, it's easy to spot drops/counter attacks, and it's easy to get a 3rd base. Makes either turtling with double forge colossus or going kcdc's quick templar style both really good. I don't quite like vs. zerg though, because the watch towers literally cover every inch of the map, meaning it's impossible to move out without zerg knowing, and it's kind of annoying to deal with mutas on this map with a 3rd base, also 2 base all-ins are much weaker because zerg can always see it coming + the rush distance is quite long.
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I banned Newkirk. It's a nightmare in PvZ. You can't hold your 3rd against early aggression because it is extremely wide open. Try to do some simcity there... nearly impossible. I'd usually say just to immortal/sentry all-in on this map but even this is not a good idea. In PvT and PvP Newkirk is a decent map.
Akilon Flats is a good map for protoss, I think. I dislike the very wide ramp, you have to wall off with your cyber core in PvZ, but you can take your 3rd easily as a protoss. In PvT drops are pretty easily defendable which is also pretty nice.
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Reading through the comments i find it pretty funny that the only thing everybody agrees opon is that the maps are bad for their respective races. have anyone actually played more than 5 games on each map?
for me:
NewKirk offers a pretty good 3rd base for terran, in that its close to your natural ramp, and fall inline with the attack path.
The exceptionally big main has caused probblems for me, in form of drops, and nydus play, even if you scout it you cant reach it in time. So i spend extra time to build a couple of turrets, and have a few units stationed there all game long. Also the watch towers in the middle of the map offers map control at a very very low price. this goes for every race. once you have both towers, you only need to worry about a drop.
Akilon flats: Again watchtowers cover the diagional of the map (why blizzard?) cubbled with the fact of a long rush distance and an easy accessable third, i predict a fair number of greedy vs greedier openings.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the match-ups on these maps; I think there are just fundamental issues with their architecture. Maybe the GSL version of Wastes will fix the GIANT-ass ramp so that it takes under a billion buildings to wall it off, as any race, so that the expansion can be protected from speedlings or hellions.
I also think that there are too many places to hide proxy buildings on the map in Akilon Wastes. I say too many because it's basically a joke to try to scout those locations. Between this and the giant ramp, I vehemently hate playing PvP on this map. Basically, I'm never going to know if proxy gates are coming, I can't realistically put a stalker at any of the watchtowers and expect it to come home for defense, and I can't expect sentries to hold that expansion ramp. The watchtowers on that map might as well just be giant middle fingers, pointed at me--because that's about all the use that I have for them.
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On January 17 2013 10:16 Severe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 08:55 Cainam wrote:
I have them both vetoed and have still gotten Akilon 5 or 6 times. I've never once gotten a vetoed map before and I've been playing since damn near release. Anyone else have this issue? You understand that just because something is vetoed doesn't mean you won't get it, right? it all depends on what the other play has Vetoed, and what available players are on the server that match your skill level.
Dunno why you felt it necessary to take such a dickish tone. That doesn't make much sense though if that is the way it is. Even if both players vetoed 3 completely different maps that still leaves 2 maps unvetoed by both players to play on.
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On January 17 2013 08:55 Cainam wrote:
I have them both vetoed and have still gotten Akilon 5 or 6 times. I've never once gotten a vetoed map before and I've been playing since damn near release. Anyone else have this issue?
Because ita not a veto. It's a priority system, the ones you've chosen have less priority but they may still be picked.
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I find these maps just a bit too large for terran because I suck at the lategame vs toss and zerg. Having said that, I just un-vetoe'd them because it feels like almost everyone has vetoed antiga shipyard and cloud kingdom so TvP and TvZ is almost always on entombed or daybreak.
I wish shakuras plateau, some variant of lost temple and even xel naga towers were back in the map rotation. They were my favourite maps for my playstyle, which is very unpolished.
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On January 27 2013 15:07 antz0r wrote:
I find these maps just a bit too large for terran because I suck at the lategame vs toss and zerg. Having said that, I just un-vetoe'd them because it feels like almost everyone has vetoed antiga shipyard and cloud kingdom so TvP and TvZ is almost always on entombed or daybreak.
I wish shakuras plateau, some variant of lost temple and even xel naga towers were back in the map rotation. They were my favourite maps for my playstyle, which is very unpolished.
Your favorite maps for 11-11? 
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newkirk is pretty shitty in zvz, because it's so hard to really scout every pathway early on. once the game stabilizes it's ok, but not fantastic. in zvt I often face drop heavy styles, where terrans try to drop between the main and the 3rd.
overall, I prefer akilon over newkirk, even though many games turn into turtlefests. (especially in zvp) on the other hand, quick max strategies are fairly strong on newkirk against tosses who aren't doing a proper opening.
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These maps are frustrating to play on. I hope blizz just remove both of these maps
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On January 28 2013 11:13 akarin wrote:
These maps are frustrating to play on. I hope blizz just remove both of these maps
Akilon was picked up by both GSL and PL. It is here for the ride best try to enjoy it's company. Not going anywhere. Even MLG might actually join on this one as it is a ladder map.
As for Newkirk well i don't know. I feel they should get rid of some of the older maps before looking into this one(Antiga is nearing 2 years anniversary).
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Just my two cents, but it seems like I'm having a lot of trouble in TvX simply because of the lack of space. I'm not sure if it just feels small or if it actually is smaller than most maps, but the lack of room for Barracks/Facts/Star ports is really hurting me.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On January 17 2013 08:55 Cainam wrote:
I have them both vetoed and have still gotten Akilon 5 or 6 times. I've never once gotten a vetoed map before and I've been playing since damn near release. Anyone else have this issue?
I thought when you veto a map it states that they are less likely to come up, not that they won't?
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On January 16 2013 11:14 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 09:22 Henk wrote:
I used a veto on akilon wastes because getting 4 bases is just too easy for P and T. Just wall off and park your units in the middle. This may lead me to use one on Akilon as well. I always feel like I am screwed if I can't pressure Terran or Toss (especially if Terran is going mech). Roach aggression is really fucking awful which encourages Protoss turtling on this map.
Akilon wastes flats is a great muta map though. And all the high level zergs go spire on it, it seems, judging from tournaments and streams.
As protoss it's really hard to protect all your mineral lines while still holding the middle, so you basically have so much map control that you can do whatever you want.
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EPT
