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[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 25 2013 23:44 GMT
#481
Looks like we're going to have some new metrics for TheStaircase in HotS. Check it out:




Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
January 26 2013 14:36 GMT
#482
Hmmmm I'm going to miss Supply Efficiency.. I'm shooting for masters benchmarks and that's the one I was failing 90% of the time. Without knowing what metric to shoot for in terms of Time Supply Blocked I guess I'll start passing steps more quickly, but will I be getting better :|
I am terrible at this game!
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 26 2013 19:42 GMT
#483
noooooooooo, spaceboy. Start making guesses for the new time supply blocked benchmarks! Set a goal, and adjust it as you go
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
January 26 2013 22:00 GMT
#484
Oh yeah I absolutely will Jak, however I worry that using Time Supply Blocked will kinda incentivise over building supply which (I'm assuming, although I never actually checked) Supply Efficiency accounted for. I mean having some supply buffer as zerg isn't the worst thing in the world.. but I'd prefer myself to be as efficient as possible!

That said SE wasn't perfect either as you could get a much better score by just streaming your units to the opponent's base (and their death) as that way you could continue building units while making no further supply at all. I know playing aggressively is part of the staircase, but most of the time it's better to aim for some kind of critical mass rather than just rallying units as they spawn which this promoted.

Anyway hopefully ggtracker will be updated for HotS soon and take all my metric concerns away! :D

I am terrible at this game!
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 27 2013 00:58 GMT
#485
Time Supply Blocked and Supply Efficiency are exactly the same except for 1 thing. TSB is is seconds, SE is in percentage. Basically, with SE, a game would have 16 out of 1600 seconds supply blocked, which would show up at 90% SE. TSB now shows this as 16 seconds straight up. If you are maxed out on supply (200/200) it does not increase the timer!

Hope that makes sense
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
babak
Profile Joined January 2013
5 Posts
January 27 2013 15:02 GMT
#486
I noticed that ggtracker has an inject timing statistic which gives me a % on how good my injects were. Is there any way I can use that instead of looking up remaining queen energy at the end?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 27 2013 15:33 GMT
#487
Absolutely babak!

We are in the process of league-ify-ing that statistic right now. inject % will be replacing queen energy :D For now you can make a guess for your goal, but we should have the league-linked goals up soonish
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Spaceboy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom220 Posts
January 27 2013 16:30 GMT
#488
On January 27 2013 09:58 JaKaTaK wrote:
Time Supply Blocked and Supply Efficiency are exactly the same except for 1 thing. TSB is is seconds, SE is in percentage. Basically, with SE, a game would have 16 out of 1600 seconds supply blocked, which would show up at 90% SE. TSB now shows this as 16 seconds straight up. If you are maxed out on supply (200/200) it does not increase the timer!

Hope that makes sense


Yep makes sense Jak! Thanks for the clarification, guess I was operating under some incorrect assumptions there :D
I am terrible at this game!
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-29 05:33:05
January 29 2013 05:31 GMT
#489
I'm doing the Staircase for zerg (I'm silver) and my SQ seems to be hovering at about 30-40% for long games (20+min) on step 1. I have looked at the reply and my injecting queens are all below 45 energy right before an inject cycle throughout the game and my creeps knocks at the opponent's door. I also have only 2-3 idle larva at any point in time. However, I'm still finding it almost impossible to spend the income of a two saturated base with a macro hatch only on zerglings! Any tips on how I could improve my SQ on step 1 given zerglings are very larva intensive? Should I make a few more macro hatches?

Thank you!

EDIT: I usually go through 1 or 2 hard supply blocks.
babak
Profile Joined January 2013
5 Posts
January 29 2013 07:36 GMT
#490
On step 1 I had to make a macro hatch for each base in order to spend my minerals.

So on 2 income generating bases I had 4 hatcheries and 4 injecting queens. On 3 I had 6 hatcheries and 6 injecting queens.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 29 2013 15:43 GMT
#491
Do not allow yourself to be contained by what you assume is correct or normal. Stick to your principles. Saturate bases, Spend Money, Supply Ahead, Inject constantly. So, if you have extra money, find something to spend it on. If all you can spend it on is hatcheries, spend it on that.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
January 30 2013 00:38 GMT
#492
@Babak: Thanks! Do you have a camera control group for each hatch or do you combine each macro hatch + its mining hatch into one location CG?

@JaK: Thanks! Looks like I'll be using extra macro hatches for a few stops to come :D

Maybe I can make a true 6 pool? :D LOL
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 30 2013 00:43 GMT
#493
Hello everyone, this isn't something that I like to do, but at this point, it is necessary. I support/create tools like TheStaircase full time, it takes a lot of time to do. I'd like to continue to do this past May, but that is when the money I saved to work on these projects runs out. If you appreciate what I do, and want me to be able to keep doing it, head over to the twitch page:

www.twitch.tv/thejakatak

There's a chip-in there with all the specifics. Thanks so much for an excellent 9 months of Sc2, maybe if we're lucky, we can go for another year

GLHF,
JaK
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Talron
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany7651 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-30 21:30:20
January 30 2013 21:02 GMT
#494
Now edited version:

So, I bought SC2 when it came out, played a bit with friends, but never bothered to actually play it a lot. I have some very basic RTS knowledge, because I also played some wc3 tft back in the day. Yet, I should be considered a complete newbie.

My goal for now is just platinum league, as I already get smashed in bronze anyway. However I read, that you were suggesting going a bit beyond that, what might just be a temporary goal, because the system isn't made for "just rising up one league" if I read things correctly.
I also know myself and if I should achieve my goal of reaching platinum I'll be hungry to achieve more, be it diamond, master or even grandmaster. So, when using SpendingQ, should I stick to the platinum goal [70] or directly fill in 90 for GM? I also don't understand which games I am supposed to exclude from adding to the SpendingQ graph.

Another thing I'd like to know is: How do I know I've passed? I've read through the OP and watched all the videos, but this still is something, which confuses me. I probably could use a very simplified version of this, if possible.

The last thing is: since I want to improve, by using this system, because it seems very well thought out to me I'd like to support you. So would it be of any use, if I submit you my replays, in which I play by the staircase system? Following on Twitter, liking on Facebook or whatnot? I did subscribe to your YT channel so far. Let me know if I can support you in any way.

So far I am having fun. That's the thing I got right for sure
EHOME 2010 never forget EHOME.GIGABYTE.AAA B-God In BurNing we trust BurNing your soul DK 2011-2014
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 30 2013 21:19 GMT
#495
@Talron lol looking forward to your post :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
babak
Profile Joined January 2013
5 Posts
January 30 2013 22:02 GMT
#496
@fengshaun - i combine each hatch with macro hatch.

my inject sequence looked like this:
f1, box both queens, v, click hatch, v, click hatch
f2, box both queens, v, click hatch, v, click hatch
f3...
Ehtele
Profile Joined July 2012
Norway8 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 00:10:30
February 02 2013 00:08 GMT
#497
Hey JaK, wanna give you big thanks! What you are doing for the casuals of SC2 is friggin' awesome!

What I did before TheStaircase:
I tried to analyze every game, find out what the enemy did and then react accordingly. I had three different build orders. I read about build orders and strategies all the time. I tried to to improve my macro by focusing on my injects, as I did not know any other way of macroing. "Macro macro macro!" they said to me. With this, I was on my way to gold and would have probably reached it after some time, but getting beyond seemed impossible. I then started to try TheStaircase and TheCore after 9 month long SC2 break. I also disabled mouse-scrolling.

Why is TheStaircase so good?
- Even with these major limits, I could hold my silver ranking with just slow lings and A-move in to the enemy base.
- I reached top 8 of silver with nothing but speedlings and slow banelings and A-move to the enemy base.
- I reached gold, still with just slow banelings and speedlings plus some minor micro.
- I have gained much more knowledge about what speedlings and banelings can do.. and not do... Before, I never used banelings against Protoss, now i know, that if i just have enough of them, they can melt both zealots and colossuses.
- I have so much more knowledge about resource managment; I know how many macro hatches I need for x saturated bases, and I know how many gases I need for my kind of baneling play.
- I now go 15 hatch every game, instead of having three different build orders depending on opponent. I don't even follow any kind of build order, but have developed a kind of sense of when I should build things depending on what the opponent are doing.
- All of the above I have learned by playing, not by reading. And most of the things would be impossible to learn, if it were not for being limited to one unit/building at a time. It would disappear in a cloud of ifs and buts... But by keeping so many parameters static for so many games, it's possible to deduce.
- And what's the best? Im already in gold, and I have 14 more steps to go, and so much more power to be unlocked in my arsenal. And I will not for a long time come to the point of not knowing what goals to strive for.

You, sir, deserve knighthood in the Starcraft community. And I really hope the donations is enough for another year to come... I know I will donate substantially when I get my first paycheck.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
February 02 2013 02:29 GMT
#498
Wow, thanks so much Ehtele, so glad I could be of service
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
February 04 2013 15:27 GMT
#499
On January 24 2013 00:51 JaKaTaK wrote:
@BerthaG
I've messaged the map creator and he hasn't responded He did say that they were both up for EU and for HotS, but I haven't confirmed yet.


Hi,

I checked last week and could not find it on EU server. I tried it on HOTS and it's cool but i would it on WoL EU. Can you message the mapper again please ? It would be really cool on WoL.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
February 04 2013 20:49 GMT
#500
On February 05 2013 00:27 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 00:51 JaKaTaK wrote:
@BerthaG
I've messaged the map creator and he hasn't responded He did say that they were both up for EU and for HotS, but I haven't confirmed yet.


Hi,

I checked last week and could not find it on EU server. I tried it on HOTS and it's cool but i would it on WoL EU. Can you message the mapper again please ? It would be really cool on WoL.


Consider it done
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
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