• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:21
CEST 16:21
KST 23:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202569RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced7BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
What tournaments are world championships? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Server Blocker The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Simple editing of Brood War save files? (.mlx) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 641 users

[G] TheStaircase - An Alternative Improvement Method - Pag…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 22 23 24 25 26 78 Next
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
January 18 2013 17:58 GMT
#461
ive tried this and its just too hurtful to your play, and kinda wrong i think, sq says ive got a grandmaster spending quotient and im plat and am a solid plat imo. I can hit ALL of the bench marks so they need to be increased. as for the staircase idea in general its like saying play with on hand for a while till u get used to it

i get the idea of what you are trying to do but it certainly isnt getting you to take one step backwards to take 3 steps forward, its like just take a step back and wait there for however the fuck long and we might move you on . . at some point
alex``
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany13 Posts
January 19 2013 00:29 GMT
#462
Hmm, i see the longer the games are the lower my sq gets. since it gets harder to spent the money. ok i know i could trade.
Ishmak
Profile Joined January 2013
Australia5 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-19 02:29:16
January 19 2013 02:25 GMT
#463
@StatixEx

The SQ benchmarks were roughly based on averages taken from the appropriate player base. i.e. the average GM has a SpendingQuotient of 90 across all of their games.

I think it is important to note that just because you hit the grandmaster benchmarks doesn't necessarily mean you will be playing at a Grandmaster level. The reason grandmasters are what they are is because they have an in-depth knowledge of the game and the timings for every race, as well as being sound in their macro.

So while this will NOT get you to grandmaster alone it CAN certainly help - if you work with it. From what I have seen it is not for everyone, but I can say from person experience (high plat/low diamond level) it is definitely helping me improve.

tl;dr TheStaircase will teach you basic mechanics and get you used to spending everything you have and not supply blocking yourself - not how to be a GM (but it can somewhat help you if that is your end goal)
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
January 19 2013 20:41 GMT
#464
serious i get it, and i see what its trying to do. I get its not about winning and all that but i certainly dont think, "hey im gonna just loose a bunch of games now but gj, i built 200/200 of un-upgraded zerglings against those collossus. guess im improving hey?"

Only playin with that last. . . Its just i tried this for the longest time got nowhere, then drilled 1 build over and over and i win well over 50% of my games and play with more than 50% of the units in the game
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 19 2013 21:57 GMT
#465
@StatixEx
I feel like TheStaircase isn't for you... everyone has their own style, it's not a problem
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Cognak
Profile Joined December 2012
United States7 Posts
January 20 2013 01:55 GMT
#466
@StatixEx
TheStaircase is great for me because of the fact its only teaching mechanics. I can watch any stream/replay/cast of games and learn the build orders/meta game but you can't learn mechanics from that. Maybe you could but it would probably take some sort of expertise where this gets new people started and thinking 'hey i need to use keybinds.' 'hey i need to try and keybind cameras at my bases/ramp/forward pylons/etc.' 'hey i need to not get supply blocked.' That has been so beneficial for me it got me actually into playing instead of just watching. It created a way to get into the game and get rid of ladder anxiety.

Not trying to create conflict or anything just offering my (a noob) point of view on TheStaircase.
babak
Profile Joined January 2013
5 Posts
January 23 2013 08:25 GMT
#467
Hi guys,

This looks great and I'm going to give it a shot after being frustrated with various other tutorials such as filtersc and apollo's.

I have one question about the energy management. I am planning on playing zerg and going for the diamond level benchmarks which means that according to the spreadsheet I will need to keep my queen energy under 80.

I dont understand whether that means keeping every single queen energy under 80 or combined energy of all queens under 80 or an average of all queen's energy.....also do I count any queens I use for creep spread or only the injecting ones?
Peculator
Profile Joined November 2012
Netherlands7 Posts
January 23 2013 09:48 GMT
#468
@Babak.
As I understand and apply it, I simply look at the energy of the injecting queens at the end of a game. If a single queen has more energy than my benchmark, it's a fail. Alternatively, if I notice during the game that energy on one of my injecting queens passes the benchmark I consider it a fail (but I play the game out most of the time anyway, can't resist!).
Only concern for the creeping queens is if they are active enough (for me)...the energy that they build up is not that important.

I have question of my own as well. I've been using ggtracker to analyze my games and I would like to rely more on that, so I can more easily spot if I made the benchmarks. GGtrackers uses a statistic for race specific macro for zerg (inject efficiency). Although they are working on benchmarking this statistic to the relative skill of players across leagues as they do with Spending Skill (which I use instead of the flat SQ), I'm interested in thoughts about what level of inject efficiency to use instead of the queen energy benchmark for my goal (diamond).
BerthaG
Profile Joined December 2012
France74 Posts
January 23 2013 11:46 GMT
#469
@StatixEx
I was like you, and now i am master league since 3 seasons and i feel like i cannot impruve because my mecanics are bad, ok i can do a BO very fine but it is not enough
Never surrender
BerthaG
Profile Joined December 2012
France74 Posts
January 23 2013 12:37 GMT
#470
I think the Staircase method is a way to impruve step by step mechanics to finally reach a level where you are not copy paste a game but you are creating your own build on personnality.

@JaKa news for europeen serveur ?
Never surrender
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 23 2013 15:51 GMT
#471
@babak
Sorry for not being clear. You must keep each of your injecting queens below x energy (in your case, 80).

@peculator
We are working with ggtracker to completely revamp the benchmarks for TheStaircase, making them both more meaningful and easier to track. This should be kicking in soon

@BerthaG
I've messaged the map creator and he hasn't responded He did say that they were both up for EU and for HotS, but I haven't confirmed yet.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Wraithan
Profile Joined September 2012
United States18 Posts
January 24 2013 04:26 GMT
#472
Hey folks, I fixed the issue that http://spendingq.com/ was having. I totally forgot to post on here about it. I did email all the people that were affected (that I knew of) and going forward things should be good.
Sites I've built: http://fundayroulette.com/ | http://spendingq.com
Rhizo
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7 Posts
January 25 2013 09:29 GMT
#473
On January 20 2013 10:55 Cognak wrote:
@StatixEx
TheStaircase is great for me because of the fact its only teaching mechanics. I can watch any stream/replay/cast of games and learn the build orders/meta game but you can't learn mechanics from that. Maybe you could but it would probably take some sort of expertise where this gets new people started and thinking 'hey i need to use keybinds.' 'hey i need to try and keybind cameras at my bases/ramp/forward pylons/etc.' 'hey i need to not get supply blocked.' That has been so beneficial for me it got me actually into playing instead of just watching. It created a way to get into the game and get rid of ladder anxiety.

Not trying to create conflict or anything just offering my (a noob) point of view on TheStaircase.


The thing is though, I started from ground 0, never played starcraft before, but I just 7 roach rushed every single game for about 50 games in order to get my macro up to a decent standard, after that, I made another base, adapted to their play, etc.

I just find the levels unneccicary when you could very easily tailor your own way that would more than likely be faster and more benefitial?
Op
Profile Joined November 2012
73 Posts
January 25 2013 14:39 GMT
#474

Ai, looks like benchmarks are becoming problematic after the new HOTS update: having 83 Average unspent resources, 1,879% supply efficiency and 6,600 APM in a 15min game....

Using TheCore lay-out since a few days but not expecting to see my APM sky-rocket like this ;-)

More seriously, someone having the same issues with weird numbers in the score screen ? Is there a way to get the right numbers out of this information ?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 25 2013 15:11 GMT
#475
I think the average unspent is accurate, going to have to wait on blizzard for the rest.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Op
Profile Joined November 2012
73 Posts
January 25 2013 15:18 GMT
#476
I think they are unfortunately all wrong (my normal unspent resources is more around 300/400), was just hoping they might be mixed up, or there might be a way to get the good data out of there so I can still get my benchmark information.

Op
Profile Joined November 2012
73 Posts
January 25 2013 19:16 GMT
#477

Looks like it was just a temporary situation in HOTS. They have put some new more intuitive metrics, like time supply blocked and idle production time to replace supply efficiency (and another one).

I was aiming for Diamond with has a max of 2 hard supply blocks, which corresponds to 2x25 (building time pylon) =50 sec supply block, so looks like I have my new benchmark. The other metrics I can still get although it is not very precise to estimate the resource collection rate from the graph.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 25 2013 20:03 GMT
#478
holy shit what? Did that just happen?
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Op
Profile Joined November 2012
73 Posts
January 25 2013 20:41 GMT
#479

This happened a short while ago. It went from the problematic situation to these new metrics. I will probably need to review my 50 seconds supply block benchmark, I saw that WhiteRa and NightEnd for example where around 1 minute in their last games... ;-)
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 25 2013 21:03 GMT
#480
that is such a good metric. the issue is, that it'll count as a supply block if you are x/x, which is not always the case. Most early build timings will have you intentionally at x/x for a certain period of time when you couldn't be building anything else anyway. I'm going to investigate how exactly the idle production metric works.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Prev 1 22 23 24 25 26 78 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 1
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #94
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .329
BRAT_OK 73
ProTech69
MindelVK 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 54408
Shuttle 3323
Horang2 2885
Sea 2503
Bisu 1988
Flash 1777
Jaedong 1617
Barracks 1602
EffOrt 1133
BeSt 889
[ Show more ]
firebathero 414
Larva 324
Nal_rA 262
ToSsGirL 206
Soma 180
Soulkey 158
sorry 136
Last 114
Rush 101
Hyun 81
Light 52
Sea.KH 52
Shinee 48
sas.Sziky 45
JYJ44
Dewaltoss 31
Aegong 28
scan(afreeca) 20
sSak 20
zelot 19
Terrorterran 14
IntoTheRainbow 9
Stormgate
BeoMulf90
Dota 2
Gorgc5662
qojqva2753
XaKoH 460
XcaliburYe373
420jenkins269
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m2603
sgares263
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor282
Other Games
singsing2053
B2W.Neo1626
Beastyqt986
Fuzer 244
kaitlyn39
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH343
• Adnapsc2 24
• Dystopia_ 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3325
League of Legends
• Nemesis2316
Upcoming Events
CSO Cup
1h 40m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 40m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
18h 40m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
23h 40m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 3h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL Team Wars
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.