On September 10 2012 14:51 Pigzyf5 wrote: Hey if you run out of ideas I know of an all in that you havn't talked about yet. (i do it sometimes when pissed off in TvP) I dont have replays on me coz im out of teh house, but here is a breif description.
i go 14CC, rax bunker rax, stop marine production , can slo stop SCVs production. save up, put down five more rax, (for 7 rax) restart marine production and SCV production as it can be aforded, as soon as the first round of marines pop out of the new rax, pull about half my SCVs and go, while rallying from the 7 rax. add gass as i leave so if i kill the opens nat but they have FFs at ramp i can pull the SCVs back and continue the game. i belive the push hits at around 8 mins,
As for defending, if P is gready which often they are coz its a CC first, they just. If they take an exspation they seem to need really really good FFs. 1 bases imortal sentry dies, as I tend to scout it and then easy defend then its 2 base vs 1... the things that really seems to do well is 1 base fast colosis. 1 base blink can go ok 2 base blink its often to late.
robo after exspo the obvs get to my base to late to scout, stalk zelot poke doesn see shit (i hid any abnormal amount of mainres)
Usually a protoss can blind counter this as well as other types of pushes that hit around this time as long as they know that it isn't a 1/1/1. Forcefields and immortals pretty much hard counter this as well as other types of rushes that hit around this time
On September 10 2012 14:51 Pigzyf5 wrote: Hey if you run out of ideas I know of an all in that you havn't talked about yet. (i do it sometimes when pissed off in TvP) I dont have replays on me coz im out of teh house, but here is a breif description.
i go 14CC, rax bunker rax, stop marine production , can slo stop SCVs production. save up, put down five more rax, (for 7 rax) restart marine production and SCV production as it can be aforded, as soon as the first round of marines pop out of the new rax, pull about half my SCVs and go, while rallying from the 7 rax. add gass as i leave so if i kill the opens nat but they have FFs at ramp i can pull the SCVs back and continue the game. i belive the push hits at around 8 mins,
As for defending, if P is gready which often they are coz its a CC first, they just. If they take an exspation they seem to need really really good FFs. 1 bases imortal sentry dies, as I tend to scout it and then easy defend then its 2 base vs 1... the things that really seems to do well is 1 base fast colosis. 1 base blink can go ok 2 base blink its often to late.
robo after exspo the obvs get to my base to late to scout, stalk zelot poke doesn see shit (i hid any abnormal amount of mainres)
Usually a protoss can blind counter this as well as other types of pushes that hit around this time as long as they know that it isn't a 1/1/1. Forcefields and immortals pretty much hard counter this as well as other types of rushes that hit around this time
yeah but I never try and make my videos about blind countering :/
On September 10 2012 14:51 Pigzyf5 wrote: Hey if you run out of ideas I know of an all in that you havn't talked about yet. (i do it sometimes when pissed off in TvP) I dont have replays on me coz im out of teh house, but here is a breif description.
i go 14CC, rax bunker rax, stop marine production , can slo stop SCVs production. save up, put down five more rax, (for 7 rax) restart marine production and SCV production as it can be aforded, as soon as the first round of marines pop out of the new rax, pull about half my SCVs and go, while rallying from the 7 rax. add gass as i leave so if i kill the opens nat but they have FFs at ramp i can pull the SCVs back and continue the game. i belive the push hits at around 8 mins,
As for defending, if P is gready which often they are coz its a CC first, they just. If they take an exspation they seem to need really really good FFs. 1 bases imortal sentry dies, as I tend to scout it and then easy defend then its 2 base vs 1... the things that really seems to do well is 1 base fast colosis. 1 base blink can go ok 2 base blink its often to late.
robo after exspo the obvs get to my base to late to scout, stalk zelot poke doesn see shit (i hid any abnormal amount of mainres)
Usually a protoss can blind counter this as well as other types of pushes that hit around this time as long as they know that it isn't a 1/1/1. Forcefields and immortals pretty much hard counter this as well as other types of rushes that hit around this time
yeah but I never try and make my videos about blind countering :/
I was referencing a more tournament style based play. I have nothing personal against you or your videos. I actually respect your skill and your thought process and I think your videos are very well made. They are a great contribution to the community
I keep meeting this 1 base marine tank viking / medivac push in TvT, and it kills me every time. I just go 1 rax expand into 3 rax as usual, and then die, even when I scan and see it coming.
I would ordinarily get reactors on my other 2 raxes, but I felt like I needed to keep making units. I suspect that was the wrong choice, but I'm not sure the reactors would help either. I was trying to get my reactor starport up so I could get air control and stop him seeing up the ramp, but my starport timing could have been a lot tighter. I suspect that's the wrong way to do things anyway though. I feel seige mode would be too late as well though.
On September 12 2012 02:56 netherh wrote: Hi. I have another request if you wouldn't mind.
I keep meeting this 1 base marine tank viking / medivac push in TvT, and it kills me every time. I just go 1 rax expand into 3 rax as usual, and then die, even when I scan and see it coming.
I would ordinarily get reactors on my other 2 raxes, but I felt like I needed to keep making units. I suspect that was the wrong choice, but I'm not sure the reactors would help either. I was trying to get my reactor starport up so I could get air control and stop him seeing up the ramp, but my starport timing could have been a lot tighter. I suspect that's the wrong way to do things anyway though. I feel seige mode would be too late as well though.
I believe the key to stopping these sorts of pushes with a 1 rax expo into 3 rax is to do an scv pull with all of your marines right as he arrives at your base. If you let him get sieged up and slow push into your natural, you may be able to get siege mode out in time to stop him from straight up killing you (but probably not), and you will be 100% forced to lift your natural back into your main, and he will have more than enough time to expo behind his attack and be super, super far ahead with his hard contain.
I can't watch your replay right now, but I assume you should have a very large scv lead and a small lead in the marine count when he hits your base, so I think the key is to force the engagement with your marines/scvs before he has too many tanks.
Edit: More to the point, I think it is a great topic for one of MrLlamma's videos.
On September 12 2012 02:56 netherh wrote: Hi. I have another request if you wouldn't mind.
I keep meeting this 1 base marine tank viking / medivac push in TvT, and it kills me every time. I just go 1 rax expand into 3 rax as usual, and then die, even when I scan and see it coming.
I would ordinarily get reactors on my other 2 raxes, but I felt like I needed to keep making units. I suspect that was the wrong choice, but I'm not sure the reactors would help either. I was trying to get my reactor starport up so I could get air control and stop him seeing up the ramp, but my starport timing could have been a lot tighter. I suspect that's the wrong way to do things anyway though. I feel seige mode would be too late as well though.
I believe the key to stopping these sorts of pushes with a 1 rax expo into 3 rax is to do an scv pull with all of your marines right as he arrives at your base. If you let him get sieged up and slow push into your natural, you may be able to get siege mode out in time to stop him from straight up killing you (but probably not), and you will be 100% forced to lift your natural back into your main, and he will have more than enough time to expo behind his attack and be super, super far ahead with his hard contain.
I can't watch your replay right now, but I assume you should have a very large scv lead and a small lead in the marine count when he hits your base, so I think the key is to force the engagement with your marines/scvs before he has too many tanks.
Edit: More to the point, I think it is a great topic for one of MrLlamma's videos.
Well, his seige mode finishes at 8:00, though he's waiting outside my base at about 7:30. At 8 minutes, he has 10 marines, 3 tanks and a medivac at my base. I have 10 marines (less than I should have) and a 10 scv lead (I think I have about the number I should have at this time).
Running through my build order in single player, it looks like I should have 15 marines (screwed up my marine production in the early game and I got my bunker earlier delaying my 2 rax because I scouted him last and was scared).
Unit testing with the proper numbers looks like I should be able to kill it pulling 16 scvs or so (all the ones at my nat) as long as I hit before seige mode.
On September 12 2012 02:56 netherh wrote: Hi. I have another request if you wouldn't mind.
I keep meeting this 1 base marine tank viking / medivac push in TvT, and it kills me every time. I just go 1 rax expand into 3 rax as usual, and then die, even when I scan and see it coming.
I would ordinarily get reactors on my other 2 raxes, but I felt like I needed to keep making units. I suspect that was the wrong choice, but I'm not sure the reactors would help either. I was trying to get my reactor starport up so I could get air control and stop him seeing up the ramp, but my starport timing could have been a lot tighter. I suspect that's the wrong way to do things anyway though. I feel seige mode would be too late as well though.
1. You need to be constantly making units. There are so many breaks where you have the resources but your barracks are sitting still 2. reactors should really only be thrown down when you know you have time to spare. if your opponent is still on one base while you're on 2, you do not have time to wait for reactors because you need all the units you can get for his push. 3. The best defense is a good offense. I'm not saying go to his base, but be ready to be slightly aggressive if you need. I already have a video that is very similar to this and with proper unit production you could easily catch him. If he gets to your base and sieges up, your chances of losing increase significantly. So instead, be ready (especially when you scan factory with tech lab, reactored barracks, and starport) for his push and go out to meet him/stall him. Episode 15 is a perfect example of this (though you can pull scvs if you don't have enough units).
I may make a video in the event that he DOES get to siege your natural, but it's going to be a lot harder to stop.
1. You need to be constantly making units. There are so many breaks where you have the resources but your barracks are sitting still 2. reactors should really only be thrown down when you know you have time to spare. if your opponent is still on one base while you're on 2, you do not have time to wait for reactors because you need all the units you can get for his push. 3. The best defense is a good offense. I'm not saying go to his base, but be ready to be slightly aggressive if you need. I already have a video that is very similar to this and with proper unit production you could easily catch him. If he gets to your base and sieges up, your chances of losing increase significantly. So instead, be ready (especially when you scan factory with tech lab, reactored barracks, and starport) for his push and go out to meet him/stall him. Episode 15 is a perfect example of this (though you can pull scvs if you don't have enough units).
I may make a video in the event that he DOES get to siege your natural, but it's going to be a lot harder to stop.
Ah, I guess I missed that video. Yeah, my marine production was pretty bad, so that's definitely something to improve (along with factory / starport timings). I think I should also start scouting earlier as well, since scouting with my barracks scv often leaves me a bit in the dark.
That video the opponent actually expands, whereas in the replay the guy gets a reactor and another 2 rax. This makes me think I'd have to pull scvs and ward him off whlie I get reactors or throw down more barracks, otherwise I'm producing fewer marines.
Are the marauders as a response to seeing the tanks, or do you always get them?
1. You need to be constantly making units. There are so many breaks where you have the resources but your barracks are sitting still 2. reactors should really only be thrown down when you know you have time to spare. if your opponent is still on one base while you're on 2, you do not have time to wait for reactors because you need all the units you can get for his push. 3. The best defense is a good offense. I'm not saying go to his base, but be ready to be slightly aggressive if you need. I already have a video that is very similar to this and with proper unit production you could easily catch him. If he gets to your base and sieges up, your chances of losing increase significantly. So instead, be ready (especially when you scan factory with tech lab, reactored barracks, and starport) for his push and go out to meet him/stall him. Episode 15 is a perfect example of this (though you can pull scvs if you don't have enough units).
I may make a video in the event that he DOES get to siege your natural, but it's going to be a lot harder to stop.
Ah, I guess I missed that video. Yeah, my marine production was pretty bad, so that's definitely something to improve (along with factory / starport timings). I think I should also start scouting earlier as well, since scouting with my barracks scv often leaves me a bit in the dark.
That video the opponent actually expands, whereas in the replay the guy gets a reactor and another 2 rax. This makes me think I'd have to pull scvs and ward him off whlie I get reactors or throw down more barracks, otherwise I'm producing fewer marines.
Are the marauders as a response to seeing the tanks, or do you always get them?
I always like to add a couple of marauders, especially when I see he is going for gas early. When I saw the tanks though I definitely wanted to make sure I was continuing to make marauders.
Also yes, definitely scout before the barracks because if you scout when your rax is done, that means his is as well so he will be able to have a marine to kill your scv in time.
Lastly, the only difference really is that your guy gets a reactor on the barracks while mine goes straight marine production (leaving my guy short a couple of marines). Other than that there is really no difference with his first attack and you should be able to just head out there.
It's AFTER the attack where my opponent adds a CC while your opponent takes the two additional rax. Because he makes more rax, this is even more reason for you to NOT get the reactors. Remember, you only get reactors when you are safe. If you are ahead and he has the ability to pressure, DON'T GET THEM! That being said, if you see he hasn't expanded then I would make more barracks so you can keep up with production and stay ahead because you are on 2 bases to his 1.
Another episode is up. This episode is a tiny bit different because it is one of the "longer games" that I originally hadn't planned on doing. but when it comes to ZvT vs mech, you need to be able to pressure as the Z and do some damage otherwise he'll get that mass army that is so hard to trade with.
here's the video: my opponent opens 1 rax expo into hellions, cloak banshee, 3rd oc, and then meching.
On August 07 2012 05:42 Cyro wrote: Hm, thats odd. Seems you are right, but my APM with zerg is almost three times the APM i have with protoss, i thought that was because you have more units etc at a lower cost? I play both races pretty aggressively
Yeah building units causes big APM spikes, and inject adds another ~20 APM on 3 injected bases.
4 -> Shift+V -> space -> click -> space -> click -> space -> click
8 actions every 45 seconds. that would be 10.6 APM added.
Name: Voidrender.318(Jon) Race: Terran Match up: TvT Your Build: standard 10min medivac timing(3rax after 1rax FE) His Build: Proxy Thor Specific Map?: all Replay: Comments: I'm really just having trouble defending it and really knowing what to do against it. and since I dont see it up there... might as well right?
On September 14 2012 16:07 VoidRender wrote: Name: Voidrender.318(Jon) Race: Terran Match up: TvT Your Build: standard 10min medivac timing(3rax after 1rax FE) His Build: Proxy Thor Specific Map?: all Replay: Comments: I'm really just having trouble defending it and really knowing what to do against it. and since I dont see it up there... might as well right?
I'd be interested in knowing a little more about his build here. Are you saying he is just walking up with 1 proxy thor? is he going for proxy thor and medivac drops? (I have to play vs that a few times).
how many thors does he attack with?
a replay would really be best for a situation like this.
EPT
