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Intro
Since the patch, I've been struggling with the TvZ match up. It feels like without really high level skill it's very hard to compete with Zerg's economy without making yourself vulnerable to a variety of all-ins/pressures. The problem is Zerg's quick third base potential, and terran's lack of options to prevent it from being placed.
However, there's one sure fire way of making sure Zerg never takes that third base...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HXIwy.jpg?1)
Yup - it's kinda hard for them to take their third if a shiny new command center is sat there first! Madness, you say, but there is some method to it:
Zerg is strongest in comfortable, familiar situations where they're free to hit injects, know when to make drones and when to make units, and spread their disgusting mess all over the map. This is all about forcing Zerg into bizarre situations I'm fairly sure most of them will never have dealt with before - most haven't the foggiest idea what to do when this happens...
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The general principle is to 2 rax into a bunker contain at the bottom of Zerg's natural ramp. This is reinforced with the proxy rax, and continually reinforced into a hard contain. This generally causes Z to a) laugh, and b) drone up behind a spinecrawler - right where I want 'em. This is followed with a CC in Z's third - why? Because the hard contain forces the Zerg into one of three options (assuming they drone when scouting the bunkers) - nydus play, mutalisks, or a baneling bust. All of these are negated by having a base right next to your contain - you can easily move troops to defend your new mineral line, or move SCV's to repair bunkers and instantly reconstruct the wall.
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Oh hai thar banelings! What are cuties like you doing on a ramp like this?
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Alas, my beautiful wall - if only I had 20 SCVs nearby!
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Oh wait... Erm, I hope you've got another 1000 gas Mr Zerg 
Adding a factory and tanks to your contain essentially makes it unbreakable, whilst reducing your push distance to zero - eat your heart out steps of war!
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Fairly sure he's not breaking this any time soon...
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Clever girl... nydus my main whilst my troops are at your base?
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I think my other bases'll probably be all right though...
Opening:
+ Show Spoiler +10 - depot 12-14 proxy 2 rax - make sure to send a scout early on 4 player maps to find Z's location- the rax should be proxied as close to Z's third as possible. + Show Spoiler +16 - Orbital command 17 depot - constant marines and SCVs. 21 bunker at the bottom of zergs natural ramp 23 depot 24 2nd bunker reinforcing the first 30 - CC at Z's third. Float rax in front of bunkers + 3rd rax to complete wall - you should end up with something like this + Show Spoiler +2x gas in main + rally fresh SCV's to your expo from your main. Factory at your contain + tanks/ siege mode. Add an ebay, rax, stim, and bunkers as necessary
Follow up:
Well now zerg is hard contained on two base, and you've the got the whole map to play with. Anything goes from here - siege push their natural, expand to the golds, drop their main - the scrappier the better - the clock on zergs minerals is ticking and they've only go so long to sort it out!
It's critically important not to build any structures besides the initial 3 depots at your main - because this is where any nydus or mutalisks are coming. Leaving nothing in your main leaves you free to evacuate without losing much besides some mining time. Peace out zergling bros.
Besides, the bafflement, confusion and pure rage this causes is totally worth it... trollface.jpg
First they LOL...
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Then they cry.
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I was delighted to receive a kind endorsement from a TL member:
On August 02 2012 13:31 TeuTeu wrote:
Looking at this from a zerg perspective and crying inside. I might quit ladder if this ever happens to me.
Replays -
+ Show Spoiler +All replays hosted by GameReplays
Game 1 - Mutas - Antiga
Unluckily for the zerg by the time they appear I'm expanding to the gold and have a ton of marines, and turrets in his third.
Game 2 - Nydus - Shakuras
Nydus worm into my main - probably the best game, nydus all over the place, valiant effort from Zerg - but macro is considerably tricker via nydus worm when there's tanks knocking down your natural...
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Not the most efficient way to expand...
Game 3 - Baneling/Roach - Shakuras
Late baneling/ roach bust -
lol erm, not terribly cost efficient for him!
Game 4 - Confuzled - Antiga
1 base speedlings - I think he was a bit confused at the lack of a CC in my natural.
Game 5 - Bling bust vs rax - Ohana
ling/bling bust - breaks my wall at the cost of his whole army - SCVs transfer from my base to insta-rebuild the wall for the win
EDIT: 6 new replays, complete with lol chat from the Zerg!
Game 6 -confused.com? Try new siege tanks from Terran.org!
Game 7 - Ling runby with a late game transition to rage.
Game 9 -Emtombed valley, standard zerg response
Game 10 - Antiga shipyard
Interesting game this one, both nydus and mutas from zerg manage to kill off my main and my gold expansion - forcing a base trade - shame that once I'm in his natural my wall stops him getting back :D
Game 11 - Ohana
Attempts to bust, rages.
Game 12 - Condemmed Ridge
Apparently possible even on a map of this magnitude. Suck it Admiral Ackbar.
EDIT: Pics for Zerg responses changed.
Also - if anyone tries this build out and has success - post replays/funny pictures in the thread and I'll add 'em to the OP.
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I don't play Zerg OR Terran, but I just have to say this build looks absolutely hilarious and creative, so if it could be pulled off, I love it! Well written
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interesting, I'll definitely try something like this on ladder when I get a chance to.
Wonder if MLG/GSL will decide to put down neutral depots at the ramp to the naturals now lol
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This is amazing! I don't play terran at all but this sounds ridiculously fun. Props to you for coming up with a great build. Well written topic too fun to read w/ pictures
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Actually, I've been playing kinda this way lately, but I do good old barrack - gas into reactor hellions because this opening is counter to all-ins and then I block his ramp from natural with these hellions and bunkers w/ marines
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This is hilarious. Basically makes it close positions. But it seems vulnerable to (very early) all-ins or quick tech to me. What type of scouting do you try to do? Do you try to poke up into their base with your marines?
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What happens if the zerg makes a couple spine crawlers that start poking at your wall? Wouldn't this be a problem early on before you can get a tank? Sorry if that's a stupid question - only silver level here.
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Have you ever actually lost with this yet or did you just play 5 games and come here?
If you only played 5 games with it, that's not the best way to develop a strategy...
Anyways, I can see a ling/bling flank working very easily on some maps (ie Ohana). On the maps it doesn't work on, ovie transport could do the trick. Any opinion about that?
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@caznitch - you have to lift and reposition the rax, and perhaps make more bunkers behind them - the tanks are usually out fast enough that you're ok. Zerg has to spread the creep to the edge of the natural before they can move the crawlers.
@Arabidopsis - usually I float off a rax and use that for scouting/ vision. Yeah it's pretty vulnerable to really quick banelings/lings before I have my rax in position to block the bunkers - but give zergs a chance to drone and they usually take it. Not pushing with a proxy two rax leads them to think you're pretty noob/drunk :p Pity two base zerg is pretty terrible :D
@Antylamon yeah I've lost a few times (need to scout better). It's probably easy to beat if you've seen it before - but the point is most people really haven't. Ohana is a pretty rubbish map for it except that it's two player, and tanks can stop them taking down the rocks - need to get a bit lucky though. Nydus is a quicker tech than Ovie transport (and cheaper). But still up on wins to losses, which is awesome as it's such a trollstrat :D
@saaa try it and let me know!
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Do you think it is also possible with mech play?
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its so cool, normally I always do 2rax bunker into CC with 2ports banshee follow up. gonna try this out 
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your Country52797 Posts
Heh, I do this sort of thing sometimes in 2v2 with another player that does an air rush. Pretty effective.
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Lol, i'll definitly try this.
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Loved it! I think that with mech play you get eliminate mech problems: your troops are on his face! no need to worry about mobility!
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I can't really see this as viable..creep is not a problem since any good Zerg goes up to 4 queens, and goodluck on maintaining high ground vision if you're under their natural on maps like Ohana.
Although I can see in the screenshots your wall is quite far back, I'd be amazed seeing any competent Zerg let you maintain that contain.
If you want to throw away resources at denying their 3rd, just go with a QXC bunker outside nat or @ 3rd, so they are forced to pull a lot of their queens or slowlings to kill it.
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United States4883 Posts
And 2-base muta will lose to this? I don't think so. I predict a lot of dead SCVs and a quick set of nydus expos to follow up. You're right that it will confuse the zerg player, but I think any well-rounded zerg player would be able to come up with a solution to this problem since you're essentially doing a 1-step strategy with no followup.
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I watched the game on shakuras - can't he just make a bunch of speedlings, run them past your defenses and win? Tanks pop at a timing where they would already be wreaking havoc in your main or at your second base.
Also super fast nydus if he went gas is pretty much impossible to hold.
Don't know about the other games but this zerg on shakuras just got confused and slipped on injects while not droning up properly.
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What league are you playing in?
Edit: Saw the hidden spoiler tag league symbol now. Really interesting that it works in master league.
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Looks fun haha. Would love to see if it will be viable at higher levels like GSL.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
I would love to try this but wouldnt just massing some lings at the beggining change things?
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Genius, even though I'm protoss player. I really love to offrace as terran, and this build gonna make it so fun.
Imo, this has a lot of potential. Needs to be explored more and understand the ways zerg can counter this in practice and not theory crafting.
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This is hilariously awesome. I definitely wanna give this a try later today, looks like much more fun than your standard TvZ.
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I tried it! .. .. . . . Lets just say that you should not use this when zerg is 6 pooling! Ah the joys of being in silver league. 
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On July 28 2012 04:45 caznitch wrote:I tried it! .. .. . . . Lets just say that you should not use this when zerg is 6 pooling! Ah the joys of being in silver league.
Use it on 4 player maps! they shouldn't 6 pool there.... :o a little micro with 2 rax always kills those lings :D
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I never tried this build, but what about early roaches? burrow infestors with nydus? 3 base broodlords?
But this build looks veryy nice, I always thought about doing one push with bunkers, barracks with siege tanks behind, turrets, and u did.
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i just tried it, zergs will now be saying nerf terran buildings xD
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So... zerg response should be fast ling speed and a runby before wall is finished? With a few spines to defend?
Or is the wall finished before ling speed is done? And is this faster than 17g speed? Or only faster than gas in response to contain?
Looks like good building placement far enough back from the ramp prevents spines from hitting the bunkers safely. Very clever.
Also, did I miss the part where you explain why 2base muta loses? Can't find anything but you making fun of nydus play.
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This is pretty much the greatest build/idea I've seen in a while.
Props to you good sir.
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Why do you post pictures of a 12min baneling bust?
Any decent Zerg will notice the contain in front of his base and will certainly not wait until 12min to try to baneling bust it. I am not sure how much the inital 2rax delays the economy but I feel even if zerg fully saturates his 2 bases first and then baneling busts it hits before you set a massive contain. Whats even more funny is that on ohana there are 2 ramps you have to contain, which you dont, and the zerg doesnt even try to flank.
So much to your example...
Also I don't see how a base next to your contain negates nydus? You know you can place a nydus everywhere? Baneling busting the contain from 2 sides is way more effective
Last but not least: The zerg can deny the initial contain after the 2 rax, if he knows whats up and made enough lings or even takes some drones
I give you credit for the effort of trying and refining new strategies, but your example is a bit lacking
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On July 28 2012 05:32 Split. wrote:
Why do you post pictures of a 12min baneling bust?
Any decent Zerg will notice the contain in front of his base and will certainly not wait until 12min to try to baneling bust it. I am not sure how much the inital 2rax delays the economy but I feel even if zerg fully saturates his 2 bases first and then baneling busts it hits before you set a massive contain. Whats even more funny is that on ohana there are 2 ramps you have to contain, which you dont, and the zerg doesnt even try to flank.
So much to your example...
Also I don't see how a base next to your contain negates nydus? You know you can place a nydus everywhere? Baneling busting the contain from 2 sides is way more effective
Last but not least: The zerg can deny the initial contain after the 2 rax, if he knows whats up and made enough lings or even takes some drones
I give you credit for the effort of trying and refining new strategies, but your example is a but lacking
I think this is a good example of "out-of-the-box" thinking and should be commended. But I do agree with some of your points. I think this build only works depending on the map; Ohana is not a good example because of the destructible at the natural, while I think maps like Antiga make this more viable. So I might try this depending on the map. Maybe Steps of War!
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Im gonna offrace just to try this, looks ridiculously fun.
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I could see this being effective with mech considering that by relocating there pretty much no push distance from your production facilities to the zerg base.
Your main ends up being rather far way from your army though if the game continues on to muta or nydus tech.
What do you think of relocating your main cc to say the zergs 4th once your expo is up and you can mine from there?
(this could loose too much mining time but just throwing the idea out there)
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Sensor towers looks very good for this build too, against nydus,mutas, mass overlord drops etc.
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nice fun strat that can catch ppl offguard, but if they simply baneling bust ur front with the help of some queens and drones, u automatically lose, dont u? i mean, your expension is gone as well...
dont see this working, but its rly creative and fun either way
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Cool build will try it out for fun and lolz in the ladder :D
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Just tried it out, it worked perfectly well for me (Diamond Terran). Very creative build which also makes a lot of fun! Thanks for this
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Haha, great build. Just faced 2 base broodlord/infestor (wanted to wait it out and see what he was going to do)
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Yeah, any sort of blind 9ish min roach/bane bust (or earlier cause of rush distance) would absolutely crush this, cause you have 0 tanks until around 10 min.
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Yeah it probably would, but the whole point is that most people won't have seen this before and don't know how to counter it Blind builds can counter a lot of builds, they also just lose to a lot of builds as well  Glad people are having success with this - post replays and I'll add them to the main topic so we can share your glory!
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He shouldn't nydus your main, obviously, because terran buildings can fly. No point base racing a terran. Also no point going mutas. Gl trying to take out bunkers that are being repaired, much worse than turrets. And not that 50% of your production AND economy is in front of Zerg's base, anyway.
What he SHOULD have done is nydussing ANYWHERE outside his base, get 50% of his lings outside (which you can't prevent, because the worm can go up virtually anywhere), and flank from behind while banelingrolling your front.
GG.
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awesome lol, this is what i've wanted to see from terrans so much earlier, terran is a great race to play scrappy with
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I love this. The terran mantra is "expand towards your opponent." Why not take this to the next level by expanding ON your opponent? Seems brutal to have your whole base at their natural. Easy to defend and contain at the same time.
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im a zerg. and im ok with this
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what if the zerg just nyduses behind your army and then surrounds you with units instead of going through the choke? And on top of that you lose that base and you lose production facilities out of your base
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LOL this look another thing that ill need to learn how to play against
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The OP really reads more like a blog than a guide, what with all the images and captions and the lack of any real analysis of the different things Zerg may throw at you. For example, if Zerg is opening with 15 hatch, then gas before pool, can you create a full wall before speed finishes and they do a run-by to go kill your main? What happens if Zerg goes for a 2 base ling/bling bust before you have any tanks out? These sorts of busts can work cross map against full rax walls.
Definitely seems like a fun thing to try to throw an unsuspecting Zerg off-guard though!
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What happens if they roach/bane all in? seems like it would break you and then you risk losing your other base to a speedling counter.
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Yeah I agree, there's a variety of builds that could kill this - some of them require you take gas before you've scouted it's this coming though - for a long time the zerg is only going to see 2 bunkers at their natural ^^. I don't so much mind dying to blind all-ins with this build, because frankly it's not a safe build - it's a fun and successful build against the current zerg gasless queen heavy meta :D
As for nydus-ing out and flanking, your tanks are probably going to be at least semi surrounded by structures to the rear as well.
But yeah this probably does die to a variety of things - if you're SURE this is what terran's doing. The whole point is that it's mostly good against people who've not seen it before
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I've been doing something similar on 2 player maps.
I go for 2 Raxes (12,14) and send like 3-4 SCVs to bunker up outside the nat. I constantly produce workers and cut Marines when necessary. There are a lot of different scenarios but usually I take double gas once I have about 3-4 bunkers down. Then I get a Fac for Tanks and Ebay for +2 Building armor and slam a PF on his third, constantly adding on more Bunkers, Turrets and Buildings to block. From here I transition into Ghost tech and nuke the shit out of him.
Also works against Terran and Toss but you need Vikings to deal with Tanks or Colossi.
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This would freak me out. I would be sooo pissed off. If this ever gets popular, I hate you
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i used to do this in tvp beta->s2, except with a well-executed TvP 2 rax (reactor/TL) and bunkering their nat , containing them in their main, then building a proxy starport for vikings in case he goes collo, then PF'ing his nat.
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This looks hilarious.
I remember when I did things like this for the lulz back in ZvP during Brood War with proxy hatcheries and sunken/spore/lurker contains outside P's nat. Actually I think I saw this happen in a pro game as well
Unfortunately P's have colossus now
Also you definitely want PFs for the contain outside his nat. there's no way Z will get enough banelings off 2 bases to bust those.
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It's like we're back in close positions on metalopolis haha
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Lol that was the idea
Actually been having pretty huge success with this build, bout 70% win rate! Although I advise not trying to do it on condemned ridge - boy is that map large. Also I've since been called a fuckingpussy, a shitkid, and a trollfaggot. I wear these noble titles as badges of honour.
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Seems somewhat gimmicky, but I love the idea, looks hilarious ^^
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This is the funniest thing I've read in a while, I must try it myself on ladder. As soon as I can I will watch all the replays. 
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wait... this guys serious?
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I think this strategy was stolen from Select. He did this to me, and it was quite effective.
A zerg who opens 15 hatch should never lose to this, though.
He called it "building terran," like a play on sky-terran, etc. Zerg just has to break the contain before it gets out of control. By the way, it's just a joke build, but I think it can be pretty effective at lower levels.
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On July 28 2012 00:50 foxj wrote:its so cool, normally I always do 2rax bunker into CC with 2ports banshee follow up. gonna try this out
FFS dude. you sound like you have some serious fun in TvZ keep it up ^_^
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You sir, deserve a medal. XDD oh my god this is so good. ahahah can't stop laughing at what kind of results i'll get with this. Good writeup!! XD
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Wow, this looks like it could actually work!!
It's like that old build in ZvP where you put your hatchery right where there natural was (and this was when gateway expand was popular)/in front of their ramp. You would build spines contain them then they make voids you have queens and they die (:!
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LOL - this is really creative - I love it
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Looking at this from a zerg perspective and crying inside. I might quit ladder if this ever happens to me.
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On July 28 2012 03:44 Zheryn wrote:
What league are you playing in?
Edit: Saw the hidden spoiler tag league symbol now. Really interesting that it works in master league.
It works because it's not something you play against often. The zerg will be confused and probably won't respond correctly.
Being stuck on 2 base would suck. I think you'd have to go roaches early or tech quickly to muta or infestor.
Problem with muta is that if terran scans and sees the spire, they can prepare accordingly and you won't have tons of mutas only on 4 gas
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I tried this yesterday against a diamond Zerg (I'm Plat) and I thought it worked, but his scouting drone hid a base and I found out that I can't micro due to lag with the new 1.5 update and I ran all of my marines into banelings. Will definitely try it on ladder once I reinstall the game.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
Dude... this looks awesome. Insane, and awesome. I'll try it and learn it. Which maps do you think it's strongest on?
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I just faced this, I can vouch this is pretty gay to deal with
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Ahaha, you know what, one guy of my team asked why he did lose against your strategy although he destroyed your main and killed many scv with mutas.
Here is some tips for zergs from a terran perspective :
- Nydus off 2 bases, destroy his main
- Secure bases with your nydus
- You can go for mass mutalisks, it's no problem, abuse them, he can't really defend and attack you at the same time, am i right ?
- Don't make the mistake to engage his blocus with only zergling and mutas, you need a lot of AoE to break it.
- If you need to engage make sure to not engage from your natural....
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Pfff, this strategy lacks ambition. When I do it, I take the zerg's natural and make it a PF
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On August 03 2012 09:28 KirA_TheGreaT wrote:
Ahaha, you know what, one guy of my team asked why he did lose against your strategy although he destroyed your main and killed many scv with mutas.
Here is some tips for zergs from a terran perspective :
- Nydus off 2 bases, destroy his main
- Secure bases with your nydus
- You can go for mass mutalisks, it's no problem, abuse them, he can't really defend and attack you at the same time, am i right ?
- Don't make the mistake to engage his blocus with only zergling and mutas, you need a lot of AoE to break it.
- If you need to engage make sure to not engage from your natural....
i also cant see why 3 spines and 3 queens from highground couldnt break this early
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On August 03 2012 09:28 KirA_TheGreaT wrote:
Ahaha, you know what, one guy of my team asked why he did lose against your strategy although he destroyed your main and killed many scv with mutas.
Here is some tips for zergs from a terran perspective :
- Nydus off 2 bases, destroy his main
- Secure bases with your nydus
- You can go for mass mutalisks, it's no problem, abuse them, he can't really defend and attack you at the same time, am i right ?
- Don't make the mistake to engage his blocus with only zergling and mutas, you need a lot of AoE to break it.
- If you need to engage make sure to not engage from your natural....
About the last point, I think it's more important to not only engage from your natural. Setting up a big flank with Nydus play and attacking from both sides to draw fire should help.
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I found your strat yesterday, tested it today after 2 loss in a row vZ. Worked perfectly, never had so much fun on a ladder match.
ps: He rage quited.
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