EPT[G] MaNa “anti-Stephano” 8 Gate Immortal Push PvZ - Page 2
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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Xaldarian
Netherlands65 Posts
Thank you for putting the time and effort in. If you however stabilize in the lategame, what would be the go to composition vs 3/3 roach spam with infestors? | ||
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AzureD
United States320 Posts
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Masvidal
Korea (South)213 Posts
On June 22 2012 15:04 covetousrat wrote: Where can I find the full vods or replays for Dreamhack? Theres only Mana vs Stephano G1 on youtube. Game 2 is very similar, with 2 variations; Mana goes 17 Forge 21 Nexus 21 Cannon 21 Gate 22 pylon (squeezing out 4-5 more probes utilizing his pylon block not only to slow the zerg down but get further ahead on economy as well), and he gets gates 2-4 before robo and he lets the proxy pylon finish and warps in 4 zealots along with his 2z1s to pressure, force units, and kill drones. it's basically the same build, except he goes through with the 4gate pressure that he merely bluffed in the first game. There's no way for the zerg to know if it's real or not, so he either makes units for nothing (slowing down his droning further) or he doesn't bite and the pressure comes and hits him where it hurts (drones) and he has to make units anyway, only after he loses a few drones. I'll post up the vod of the 2nd game for reference as well; I like game 2 more because it displays the flexibility and subtle cleverness of the build more. inc even makes the insightful point that there was no way for stephano to know whether the 4 gate pressure is real or not. Since the pylon was cancelled in game one, he doesn't really respond and mana warps in zealots and hits his natural for some damage and pulls out before the units clean it up. | ||
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:37 Siggeh wrote: May I ask what is the best counter to this build? I lose to this build quite often in ladder. Massing roaches vs this would like rolling the dice and hope that this is one of those Protosses who can't make decent forcefields. This build is actually incredibly good, I think it comes down to scouting, if you smell this out mutalisk would be pretty mad, I don't know why I'm saying this but hydralisk vs this could do decently :D | ||
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Mesiko
11 Posts
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Masvidal
Korea (South)213 Posts
On June 22 2012 15:16 Xaldarian wrote: A very detailed well written guide that allows for some much needed flexibility for us protoss. Thank you for putting the time and effort in. If you however stabilize in the lategame, what would be the go to composition vs 3/3 roach spam with infestors? You would take a 3rd and, with your TC already up, make a templar archives and another forge, chrono up to 3/3, get blink, grab maybe 6 HT just to feedback infestors, and mix in a lot of archons since they do bonus damage vs all bio. 3/3 blink stalker with blink micro plus archons will do fine vs roaches, and HT should feedback infestors to keep you from getting fungaled, then they can morph into archons once the infestors are neutralized and jump in to help take care of roaches. | ||
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MrFrenchy
Canada37 Posts
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Noritzu
United States11 Posts
I also for a while there did some odd fast spine wall play that shut this build down flat, but decent players i feel would scout your early spine wall and just opt to take a fast third since you wasted so much on a mass of spines. also want to note i was watching Spanishiwa stream a few nights ago where he encountered this kinda push, but the protoss delayed for quite a bit and when he finally did Spanishiwa was maxed on roach ling. he still lost the engagement though simply because force fields are just so powerful against zerg t1. So if that situation comes up I feel there is merit in also bringing the aggression back to the toss and forcing a base race. (assuming your scouting regularly to see what hes doing and have your army in position to strike as he moves out.) | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On June 24 2012 18:08 Noritzu wrote: This build has been very common on NA ladder lately (at least at diamond level). and because of it ive recently been attempting to fight it with ling/bane. Ive had good success so far by making sure i scout him moving out, engaging in the open, and bating force fields as much as possible. Its a very rough push because force fields are so good against roaches, and timing wise on 3 base it is really difficult to get fast enough muta or infestors (fast 2 base its possible but still a risk i feel). I also for a while there did some odd fast spine wall play that shut this build down flat, but decent players i feel would scout your early spine wall and just opt to take a fast third since you wasted so much on a mass of spines. also want to note i was watching Spanishiwa stream a few nights ago where he encountered this kinda push, but the protoss delayed for quite a bit and when he finally did Spanishiwa was maxed on roach ling. he still lost the engagement though simply because force fields are just so powerful against zerg t1. So if that situation comes up I feel there is merit in also bringing the aggression back to the toss and forcing a base race. (assuming your scouting regularly to see what hes doing and have your army in position to strike as he moves out.) Revival just used a base trade to deal with it in the IPL qualifier. He used roach/ling and barely won the base race, but I feel like this wouldn't work if the protoss player simply turtled in their main as they can sneak out a probe and you can't kill their army / even get up their ramp. A muta base trade is more viable. | ||
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scsequeL
47 Posts
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Goldbullet
United States88 Posts
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NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
On June 21 2012 08:34 LgNKane wrote: lol? stephano is maxed by 11:10 in some of his games, and by maxed i mean 200/200. Uhmm..... You must be watchin' noobs do his build. I can get max at 11:30 ez with a large bank. (@ Masivdal) | ||
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Firefoxys
Netherlands9 Posts
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aTo
Austria588 Posts
On June 21 2012 06:37 Siggeh wrote: May I ask what is the best counter to this build? I lose to this build quite often in ladder. 2base fast mutas with crawler defense is how i lose vs Z with this strat 2base muta build will get u faster mutas to harass then P can attack you the problem is that you normaly shouldnt play 2 base vs P and its quit hard to scout - or better "know" - if the P will play this strat... if u see fast robo and think "hahaha i go mutas" and then suddenly its a blink build with obs u could get in some troubles too ... so imo its a realy nice strat vs Z and quit hard to hold | ||
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Dirichlet
21 Posts
On June 25 2012 00:37 Firefoxys wrote: would it be possible to give us a replay of a proper exicution of the build??? like not a vod a replay Here is a replay of me doing this build at a mid masters level. The level is obviously not super high, but it's not terrible. http://drop.sc/204024 | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
On June 25 2012 01:01 aTo wrote: 2base fast mutas with crawler defense is how i lose vs Z with this strat 2base muta build will get u faster mutas to harass then P can attack you the problem is that you normaly shouldnt play 2 base vs P and its quit hard to scout - or better "know" - if the P will play this strat... if u see fast robo and think "hahaha i go mutas" and then suddenly its a blink build with obs u could get in some troubles too ... so imo its a realy nice strat vs Z and quit hard to hold This build is designed to beat 3 base Zerg. If z is sticking to 2 base, tos will likely go something else. I feel that Speedlings are good when Tos first move out at around 10 mins. | ||
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Amridell
188 Posts
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Masvidal
Korea (South)213 Posts
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cassurai
Singapore307 Posts
From Mana's stream last night, there is a game at 23:00 on Daybreak where MaNa did this again on the ladder. He did a fake 4 gate pressure before moving out with 2 Immortals and tons of Sentries. After the game, at 31:20, he loads the replay and analyses the game, explaining to viewers what happened, and what were the Zerg's mistakes. | ||
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