EPTAnother issue I have is whenever I go for an obsless blink-allin I get shut down hard by burrow. Usually I'm just forced to retreat, probe up and take my third (takes longer because there is often a burrowed ling there now). I'm usually at quite a disadvantage at this point. What is your response to this?
[G] Hellokitty's 7 Gate Blink All-in PvZ build - Page 3
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
Another issue I have is whenever I go for an obsless blink-allin I get shut down hard by burrow. Usually I'm just forced to retreat, probe up and take my third (takes longer because there is often a burrowed ling there now). I'm usually at quite a disadvantage at this point. What is your response to this? | ||
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hellokittySC2
United States395 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:33 CryMore wrote: From my experience Nexus first gives you an extra chronoboost over forge-first and slightly faster probe saturation. Haven't tested timings but I feel like I can hit slightly earlier with my 2-bases off a nexus first. Also I don't believe your core is behind because you get your gateway before your cannon in a nexus first. Another issue I have is whenever I go for an obsless blink-allin I get shut down hard by burrow. Usually I'm just forced to retreat, probe up and take my third (takes longer because there is often a burrowed ling there now). I'm usually at quite a disadvantage at this point. What is your response to this? this is an all in for a reason, so w/e that you said is meh, you cant take a 3rd because mass roaches runs you over. if runs into burrow you can just retreat or just bait them to unburrow and blink on top of the small force  nexus first +gateway is very greedy, my build is 6/7 pool proof you're welcomed to experiment against 6 pools with nexus first gateway | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Very good build here, if you don't have such a timing as a toss you should learn this. *- meta read, map, etc Edit- It was Vines http://www.sc2replays.eu/show-replay-17489-0-ogsvines_p_-vs-nmxnoxn_z.html is an example of what I prefer to do vs roach only plays. | ||
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
I personally love blink all-ins but I haven't been able to get it to work at all recently, obsless ones come out early enough but I am forced to fight on creep and my forward pylons are too far back, and obs blink-allins hit wayyy too late. Just seems to kill overly greedy zergs....but alot of 2-base allins kill greedy zergs =/, | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:57 CryMore wrote: Well I meant Nexus forge gate, not nexus gate. I also have my own way of dealing with early pools and I don't nexus first when I don't get an early scout in. I personally love blink all-ins but I haven't been able to get it to work at all recently, obsless ones come out early enough but I am forced to fight on creep and my forward pylons are too far back, and obs blink-allins hit wayyy too late. Just seems to kill overly greedy zergs....but alot of 2-base allins kill greedy zergs =/, The build in the OP and the replay of OGS vines I posted 2 posts up both are ones that either have a way to get an early pylon up OR, in the case of the vines game, do not require an early forward pylon. | ||
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hellokittySC2
United States395 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On June 13 2012 06:05 area51Hellokitty wrote: the problem with going pure stalkers is that zerg has a lot of room to micro, and it's easy to get up close to the protoss army and attack I agree, a pure stalker force, for that reason, does BEST against pure roach forces because pure roaches can be abused by terrain and micro more than other Zerg units and they cant do the same in return. | ||
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Siggeh
Norway71 Posts
Ehm... basically I can't see how to react properly.. -Like I scout late gas on his natural with ovies, and I scout his zealot + stalker + probe + pylon being made as they moves towards my base. -What happens next is: I either answer with fast lings to prevent further warp ins from pylons or go I earlier roaches, either way I will have to stop droning to deal with the initial 4 gate +1 attack. -The toss decides to not commit to this 4 gate attack and hits a later blink stalker attack, and I lose as I don't get enough stuff as I had to cut drones earlier on, and from there it was no way coming back. -Basically, this build exploit the ability to not commit, if u understand what I'm saying. -What can I do different? I can't just guess his not going 4 gate, that would be stupid, so either way I will suffer economic damage. .... Well that's why I think it's a good build. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
Yeah I might be flanked by larva from the third, but they will be there regardless unless I stay and kill the larva too? | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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hellokittySC2
United States395 Posts
On June 13 2012 06:30 tehemperorer wrote: Kitty: Say I do this build on Antiga or Cloud Kingdom, and I hit the third and he runs with all his stuff to his nat instead of fighting... Do I kill the third and then go to his natural, or do I go straight to his natural to not allow him time to build more roaches? Yeah I might be flanked by larva from the third, but they will be there regardless unless I stay and kill the larva too? just kill workers, if you feel like you have a big enough army(14-16 stalkers and you can kill your opponent before then) i'd go in, but if you want to play safe, go kill 3rd first, kill all the spawned units, and then warp even more in and attack | ||
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Tommyth
Poland117 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
usually when i want to do this i just go for a normal +1 atk 6gate and make blink too, but hthis is a lot better ^_^ | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote: yes, the +1 timing shouldn't be scouted, unless you just have terrible zealot and stalker control, your probe and pylon Shouldn't die. if they push for 50, they will take a lot of damage. and yes, roaches do pop, but you force roaches, and if you do some micro, you can do damage, else just go home and macro if you have less than 200 apm. even if zerg defends first 4 gate pressure with taking No damage, you can still micro your way to victory just by taking the battles at chokes and trap initial units. again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless. I stopped doing it because zergs wouldnt miss injects on korean server and it would lose most of the time esp now that queens are a lot better. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
I'll stick with trying the adonminus style as it can actually pressure before zerg has units out (it hits at around 7 minutes with the 4gate) and really mess with their economy, which helps the blink all-in have a better chance. It's still really risky and there are better PvZ builds, but at least it forces zerg to play reactively instead of just hoping the zerg can't inject at all or isn't droning properly / doesn't build a roach warren. Ultimately a lot of it comes down to how the zerg handles the first stalker/zealot poke, as that's the only chance you have to throw them off from just having 60 drones and roaches on the way at 8 minutes. | ||
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Cwall
United States64 Posts
hellokitty rapes me with this build all the time, yet i usually hold against anyone else from a mid master to low-mid GM level i also agree that this build is much stronger with the 4gate pressure | ||
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hellokittySC2
United States395 Posts
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Rigorous
74 Posts
On June 13 2012 22:31 area51Hellokitty wrote: right, cwall made a really good point, it's all about how you engage with forcefields and how well your micro is, if you haven't been practicing danglein's micro trainer for blink stalkers to like level 5+ , this build is essentially useless for you if you're going up against high master/gm's Kitty, I think this build can work and I've used it in the past, but I am struggling with the 80% win rate. You must have Godly micro-control for this claim, and if you have this type of control, then I'm not sure this build is helpful but to only a few people out there. In addition, your perception of the drone count at 40 at 8 minutes is way too low - zergs usually have way more drones. In fact, the high drone count is how zergs hold 8 gates that hit around 8 minutes as well - they have the economy to crush gateway armies. I agree this build should start with 4-gate pressure, but I think you agreed with me that sometimes you can do basically no damage to the zerg. In this case, the zerg will be nearly maxed at 11 min. In fact, a good zerg will just dance around for a minute until he is maxed at 12 minutes. I can't possibly see how your supply of around 100 with blink stalkers and a few sentries can handle a maxed roach army. I stopped doing this build, because it either works wonderfully (if you can force a lot of units or do damage with the initial 4 gate). But if you don't do damage with this 4-gate, then it seems that you've already lost the game. | ||
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Ruin
United States271 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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