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7 Gate Blink Stalker All-In
![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zPrXbYwDB3c/TiPif2_TqNI/AAAAAAAADnA/Xgk_oEv67iA/s1600/Hello+Kitty+Blue.jpg)
Hello all, my name is Hellokitty, I am currently a high grandmasters on NA, recently picked up by team Area51 and I am here to share with you my 2 base blink stalker all in vs zergs(80%+ win ratio). WCS top 8 USA.
Sasquatch: This build has a really powerful timing and is extremely versatile vs almost all zerg builds.
The Build
+ Show Spoiler +9 Pylon 11 Probe (chrono) 13 Probe (chrono) 14 Forge (send 12th probe out) 15 Pylon (at opponent's natural if you don't scout gas or fast pool[non14 pool]) 15 Probe (chrono) 18 Nexus(~3:10) 18 Cannon 19 Probe (chrono+ queue up 2nd probe) At this point, you should have 20/18 supply because their zergling kills your pylon at their natural. 20 Gateway(~3:50) 20 Pylon take double assimilators 21 Probe (chorno) ~this is the last time you're going to spend chrono on probes. once gateway's done, make core, zealot Right away. +1 weapon is usually around the 29/36 supply, chrono it once. at 30/36 or 32/36 supply, drop another pylon (in your main if you haven't done so) as core finishes, chorno core for warpgate research, chrono out stalker. ~at this time, your first zealot should be out of your base to scout and micro to kill as many lings as possible. at ~38-39/44 supply, drop down 3 more gateways, continue to chrono on cybercore for warpgate research.(6:25-6:30) queue a sentry back home while continue to make probes this entire time. drop down another pylon(at home) so that you won't be supply blocked around 42/44 marker. at around 44/44 drop down twilight council, take double gas at natural. drop down 1 pylon around enemy's 3rd(your probe should already in position since your zealot and stalker gives you map control) as soon as warpgate is finished, warp in 4 zealots at their 3rd (this lines up perfectly with +1 upgrade, assimilators, and twilight council, so this is really hectic for a lot of multitaskers) send the 5 zealots + stalker into their 3rd (usually hits around 7:50-8:05) send probes into the 2 gas at natural as soon as possible, get +2 upgrade(chrono all spend on that) get blink(1 chrono) make another pylon at main, use the sentry to kill the overlord in your base, warp in 4 more sentries. note: 1 key mistake players make is that they overly micro their zealots, causing their macro to slip around this time. after warping in 4 sentries (total 5), drop down 3 more gateways and 1-2 more pylons, warp next round of 4 stalkers.(the attack should hit at around 10:20-10:40 mark) note : Both of your bases should be saturated with 22 probes total(including gas mining), 1 or 2 extra probes wouldn't be bad, but just make sure you check both, this is usually around 60 supply mark? right before you get your 4 sentries. And you stop making probes period. make pylons and make pure stalkers afterwards 
The Big Picture:
+ Show Spoiler +
You're hitting the zerg with 5 zealot and 1 stalker pressure when they have around 40 drones, this forces them to make roaches and zerglings instead of drones, this delays their economy and often forces them to miss some larva injects and micro so their drones and queens don't die.
Your next follow up will deal a lot of damage because the zerg's economy is still on recovery mode(50-60 drones) and if they get greedy with teching it's an instant win, and if they don't have good upgrades, blink micro comes out ahead before any major tech's out.
Why this build works?
+ Show Spoiler +It's a very powerful +2 timing attack with minimum amount of sentries that hits around the 11:00 mark, right before the next round of roaches are out.
It counters almost every single build zergs do such as ling roach, roach, muta, hydra, ling baneling.
It's very Micro based, so the better blink and forcefield micro you have, the better you're going to perform this build.
Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
here is my stream channel if anyone's interested when I perform this build live http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=335482
This is my first time making a guide, feel free to ask any questions on here via pm or repost, and let me know what I can add onto the guide!
GL HF Protoss, zerg is food with this build :D
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Your Buildorder does not list the first Gateway.
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Congrats on the team pick up :o will you include a way for Zergs so that we won't be food.
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oops, sorry T.T just woke up ^.^ updated
to spec : infestors, burrow or just good flank with weaponed roaches or +1 armor lings are pretty good
a lot of positioning is involved for zerg to beat this build
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Didn't you get 5th at WCS recently? Or was that someone else?
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On June 12 2012 23:02 area51Hellokitty wrote:
yea, 5th-8th
Nice! Its good to see new up and coming foreigners in the scene. Do you stream a lot? I bet i could learn a lot from you!!
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L, did you know, kitties blink.
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Question-
why spend early chrono on probes to 20? wouldn't it be better to not let that pylon-block finish and wait to chrono until after you secure your second pylon in-base
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On June 12 2012 23:14 jamesz123 wrote:
Question-
why spend early chrono on probes to 20? wouldn't it be better to not let that pylon-block finish and wait to chrono until after you secure your second pylon in-base
it's to make sure zerg doesnt take a fast expo, your initial scouting probe should be following the zerg so they don't take their 2nd base for as long as possible, this timing works out perfectly if zerg goes 14 pool and gets 4 zerglings, if you chrono right away you will get 20 probes out before your pylon dies, and this is the most optimized way for me to play, of course you wouldn't want to be supply blocked but the extra 2 probes imo works better into the build order.
edit: plus it slows down the zerg's timing, 100 minerals is worked into the equation, if you don't let that pylon finish your +1 timing hits a Bit faster, but your 7 gate will be weaker due to injects.
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Congrats on your WCS run :D
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I think there are two issues with this build. 1) lings may deny your proxy, so your 4 gate pressure is slightly delayed. 2) Many zergs have 3-5 roaches at 8 min to defend against 4 gate pressure. This minimal amount of roaches can kite your zlots so that your 4 gate pressure effectively did nothing.
In addition, I am not sure your 40 drone count is accurate at 8 min. I think it can be pushing high 40 and even 50.
I've seen Desrow doing a similar 4-gate build into 7 gate blink on his stream. He would die often. I think he quit doing. I am not sure this build can generate an 80% win rate as long as the zerg defends your initial 4 gate pressure with minimal losses.
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On June 12 2012 23:34 Rigorous wrote:
I think there are two issues with this build. 1) lings may deny your proxy, so your 4 gate pressure is slightly delayed. 2) Many zergs have 3-5 roaches at 8 min to defend against 4 gate pressure. This minimal amount of roaches can kite your zlots so that your 4 gate pressure effectively did nothing.
In addition, I am not sure your 40 drone count is accurate at 8 min. I think it can be pushing high 40 and even 50.
I've seen Desrow doing a similar 4-gate build into 7 gate blink on his stream. He would die often. I think he quit doing. I am not sure this build can generate an 80% win rate as long as the zerg defends your initial 4 gate pressure with minimal losses.
yes, the +1 timing shouldn't be scouted, unless you just have terrible zealot and stalker control, your probe and pylon Shouldn't die. if they push for 50, they will take a lot of damage.
and yes, roaches do pop, but you force roaches, and if you do some micro, you can do damage, else just go home and macro if you have less than 200 apm. even if zerg defends first 4 gate pressure with taking No damage, you can still micro your way to victory just by taking the battles at chokes and trap initial units.
again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless.
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On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote:
again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless.
I'm pretty sure desrow didn't invent the build. I'm pretty sure he got it from Koreans as I've seen it on a few other streams. I don't see this as a dominant build. If it had an 80% win rate, you would see it more often. I agree it's micro-oriented, but a minimal amount or roaches (3-5) can stop 4-gate pressure...nothing you can do to micro zlots against roaches on creep. Especially if there is one spine.
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Nice. I love micro intense builds like this....I like this a lot more than my variation.
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Do you think this is stronger than the immortal/sentry allins versus roach/ling?
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On June 12 2012 23:46 Rigorous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote:
again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless. I'm pretty sure desrow didn't invent the build. I'm pretty sure he got it from Koreans as I've seen it on a few other streams. I don't see this as a dominant build. If it had an 80% win rate, you would see it more often. I agree it's micro-oriented, but a minimal amount or roaches (3-5) can stop 4-gate pressure...nothing you can do to micro zlots against roaches on creep. Especially if there is one spine.
thats why you back off or target fire drones + queens, any drone + queen = win
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On June 13 2012 00:07 area51Hellokitty wrote:
thats why you back off or target fire drones + queens, any drone + queen = win
But if you back off, then you are way behind because you opened 4-gate. I don't see many pros opening with 4-gate pressure anymore, because if you don't do any damage, you are way behind.
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Plat/diamond zerg here
I have a practice buddy, Slidetalentz NA master, which used this build a couple of time against me. Even after doing some research and playing against this build many times in a row, i still cannot defeat it. I just feel like the timing push is increadable and you can't get infestors to nullify the blink fast enough. I have tried many things. Mad props for the guide and build, even if i am a Z.
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On June 13 2012 00:13 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:46 Rigorous wrote:On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote:
again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless. I'm pretty sure desrow didn't invent the build. I'm pretty sure he got it from Koreans as I've seen it on a few other streams. I don't see this as a dominant build. If it had an 80% win rate, you would see it more often. I agree it's micro-oriented, but a minimal amount or roaches (3-5) can stop 4-gate pressure...nothing you can do to micro zlots against roaches on creep. Especially if there is one spine. If they make Roaches instead of Drones to defend your 4gate pressure, their economy will be weakened when it comes time to defend the 7gate Blink +2 push. This makes the 7gate attack stronger. Try doing a 7gate Blink +2 push without pressuring and then try it with pressure, you'll see a massive difference.
At my level, top 8 master ~1,200 pts, any zerg opponent can micro 3-5 roaches and stop 4-gate pressure. My point is that most zergs already have this amount of roaches in their build order without jeopardizing their economy. Any good zerg knows not to overmake units with the initial 4-gate pressure especially if they scout double gas at natural, etc...cuz they know you are teching behind an initial wave of units. My point is that good zergs stop this 4-gate pressure with basically no economic loss, and then you are way behind. How many pros do you see still opening with 4-gate pressure? It's all about taking a fast 3rd now...
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On June 13 2012 00:42 Sated wrote:Are you suggesting that the all-in would be stronger without 4gate pressure? Because that's all that matters with regards to this strategy. And if that is what you're suggesting, why? EDIT: Also, you're replying to a thread created by someone who just did extremely well in WCS. Your "at my level" bullshit isn't needed, nor does it make you look good
Your vulgary isn't needed. Apparently, your reading comprehension may not be the strongest. I am not suggesting that this strategy would be stronger without 4 gate pressure. I'm suggesting that this strategy does not yield an 80% win rate, because it relies on 4 gate pressure that is easily stoppable.
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Great guide, but I think the mark of a truly amazing guide is if you cop to some of the counters to the build. There isn't a timing attack that doesn't have a weakness, i think that should be somewhat mandatory in the strategy section and im not just talking about your post alone. Can't wait to try this out!
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On June 13 2012 00:12 Rigorous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:07 area51Hellokitty wrote:
thats why you back off or target fire drones + queens, any drone + queen = win But if you back off, then you are way behind because you opened 4-gate. I don't see many pros opening with 4-gate pressure anymore, because if you don't do any damage, you are way behind.
That's because they're either
1) Not 2 base all inning
2) Not 2 base all inning with tech
3) Not 2 base all inning with low sentry count
However if you are 2 base all inning with tech and low sentry count there's not really any reason not to put on some pressure early, even if you expect it to get defended. Just something to grab the opponent's focus and maybe do some damage.
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very similar build to what Hero did in GSL a couple seasons back, it goes something like (i wrote it down without chronos)
17 Nexus
17 Forge
18 Pylon
19 Cannon
19 Gate
21 Double gas
27 Core
27 Zealot
27 +1 Attack
WG when core done
Stalker @Zealot 100%
2 More gates
Zealot
48 Double gas
48 Twilight
Start warping zealots from 3 gates
4 More gates
+2 Attack and Blink
Blink done 10:30
Cut probes at 46
On June 13 2012 00:59 drgonzhere wrote:
Great guide, but I think the mark of a truly amazing guide is if you cop to some of the counters to the build. There isn't a timing attack that doesn't have a weakness, i think that should be somewhat mandatory in the strategy section and im not just talking about your post alone. Can't wait to try this out!
This build cuts robo so borrow roaches, lings + spines and decent micro from Z should be able to hold this unless they dont scout or play too greedy
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really nice build reminds me of the 2 gate style pressure's into 4gate's.
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This build is used frequently on the Korean ladder . . . just because you don't see it a lot in tournaments doesn't mean people aren't using it.
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On June 13 2012 01:54 RealRook wrote:very similar build to what Hero did in GSL a couple seasons back, it goes something like (i wrote it down without chronos) 17 Nexus 17 Forge 18 Pylon 19 Cannon 19 Gate 21 Double gas 27 Core 27 Zealot 27 +1 Attack WG when core done Stalker @Zealot 100% 2 More gates Zealot 48 Double gas 48 Twilight Start warping zealots from 3 gates 4 More gates +2 Attack and Blink Blink done 10:30 Cut probes at 46 Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:59 drgonzhere wrote:
Great guide, but I think the mark of a truly amazing guide is if you cop to some of the counters to the build. There isn't a timing attack that doesn't have a weakness, i think that should be somewhat mandatory in the strategy section and im not just talking about your post alone. Can't wait to try this out! This build cuts robo so borrow roaches, lings + spines and decent micro from Z should be able to hold this unless they dont scout or play too greedy
right, the build doesnt actually hit until you have a decent amount of stalkers, with good micro (80-92 total supply), you should be able to use forcefield to take out a decent chunk of zerg's army without losing a single stalker. but yes, if they go burrowed roaches, you just have to back off, get robo, mass up more on stalkers and do like a 120-140 supply push ^.^ it hits right before the 11 minute mark 
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Tibbles? Are you kidding me? When did you start posting on TL? You the same tibbles that annoyed everyone at Dawn of war sanctuary?
User was warned for this post
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looks like a great build
its next on my list of builds to master
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On June 13 2012 00:18 Rigorous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:13 Sated wrote:On June 12 2012 23:46 Rigorous wrote:On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote:
again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless. I'm pretty sure desrow didn't invent the build. I'm pretty sure he got it from Koreans as I've seen it on a few other streams. I don't see this as a dominant build. If it had an 80% win rate, you would see it more often. I agree it's micro-oriented, but a minimal amount or roaches (3-5) can stop 4-gate pressure...nothing you can do to micro zlots against roaches on creep. Especially if there is one spine. If they make Roaches instead of Drones to defend your 4gate pressure, their economy will be weakened when it comes time to defend the 7gate Blink +2 push. This makes the 7gate attack stronger. Try doing a 7gate Blink +2 push without pressuring and then try it with pressure, you'll see a massive difference. At my level, top 8 master ~1,200 pts, any zerg opponent can micro 3-5 roaches and stop 4-gate pressure. My point is that most zergs already have this amount of roaches in their build order without jeopardizing their economy. Any good zerg knows not to overmake units with the initial 4-gate pressure especially if they scout double gas at natural, etc...cuz they know you are teching behind an initial wave of units. My point is that good zergs stop this 4-gate pressure with basically no economic loss, and then you are way behind. How many pros do you see still opening with 4-gate pressure? It's all about taking a fast 3rd now...
It's very doubtful that there will be a spine crawler at the Zerg's third, unless its one of those ridiculous maps with a really easy third. It's true a couple roaches do shut down 4gate pressure pretty easily, but the roaches will still have to be micro'd, and at most levels, that's potentially missed larva injects or morphs. I think keeping the initial zealot may be a little bit of a stretch given queen buff, but 4 zealot/1 stalker can keep 3 roaches busy for awhile, though 5 should clean up a lot easier. The stalker will be getting shots off, and if Zerg tries to focus it with roaches, Toss can kite back and zealots and get some swipes on the roaches. At my level, top 30 ~1200 points master, this is pretty easy to do as well.
4gate is poor if you don't have an immediate, definite follow up plan. However, the amount of eco that the 7gate blink all-in needs can be gotten comfortably after the pressure. So, essentially there is no reason not to do it. This is an all-in. It's very different from getting a fast third in a standard game.
@OP
I like the idea of using the proxy pylon for supply and using the blocked time to drop a pair of assimilators.That's very clever.
Hmm, given the queen buff, I'm not quite sure how fast a well-executed Stephano-style roach max hits now. I know it used to be around 12 minutes-- is it slightly earlier now? 4gate pressure might buy you like 30 seconds, but I'm worried that Zerg will still have quite a few roaches by the time your attack hits. I guess you used this at WCS and it worked though.
Random questions:
What maps?
What base do I attack?
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On June 13 2012 03:08 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:18 Rigorous wrote:On June 13 2012 00:13 Sated wrote:On June 12 2012 23:46 Rigorous wrote:On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote:
again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless. I'm pretty sure desrow didn't invent the build. I'm pretty sure he got it from Koreans as I've seen it on a few other streams. I don't see this as a dominant build. If it had an 80% win rate, you would see it more often. I agree it's micro-oriented, but a minimal amount or roaches (3-5) can stop 4-gate pressure...nothing you can do to micro zlots against roaches on creep. Especially if there is one spine. If they make Roaches instead of Drones to defend your 4gate pressure, their economy will be weakened when it comes time to defend the 7gate Blink +2 push. This makes the 7gate attack stronger. Try doing a 7gate Blink +2 push without pressuring and then try it with pressure, you'll see a massive difference. At my level, top 8 master ~1,200 pts, any zerg opponent can micro 3-5 roaches and stop 4-gate pressure. My point is that most zergs already have this amount of roaches in their build order without jeopardizing their economy. Any good zerg knows not to overmake units with the initial 4-gate pressure especially if they scout double gas at natural, etc...cuz they know you are teching behind an initial wave of units. My point is that good zergs stop this 4-gate pressure with basically no economic loss, and then you are way behind. How many pros do you see still opening with 4-gate pressure? It's all about taking a fast 3rd now... It's very doubtful that there will be a spine crawler at the Zerg's third, unless its one of those ridiculous maps with a really easy third. It's true a couple roaches do shut down 4gate pressure pretty easily, but the roaches will still have to be micro'd, and at most levels, that's potentially missed larva injects or morphs. I think keeping the initial zealot may be a little bit of a stretch given queen buff, but 4 zealot/1 stalker can keep 3 roaches busy for awhile, though 5 should clean up a lot easier. The stalker will be getting shots off, and if Zerg tries to focus it with roaches, Toss can kite back and zealots and get some swipes on the roaches. At my level, top 30 ~1200 points master, this is pretty easy to do as well. 4gate is poor if you don't have an immediate, definite follow up plan. However, the amount of eco that the 7gate blink all-in needs can be gotten comfortably after the pressure. So, essentially there is no reason not to do it. This is an all-in. It's very different from getting a fast third in a standard game. @OP I like the idea of using the proxy pylon for supply and using the blocked time to drop a pair of assimilators.That's very clever. Hmm, given the queen buff, I'm not quite sure how fast a well-executed Stephano-style roach max hits now. I know it used to be around 12 minutes-- is it slightly earlier now? 4gate pressure might buy you like 30 seconds, but I'm worried that Zerg will still have quite a few roaches by the time your attack hits. I guess you used this at WCS and it worked though. Random questions: What maps? What base do I attack?
4 gate pressure buys you a few seconds, the original pylon block buys you up to like a minute or 2 depends on how well you block 3rds.
most of the maps you do tend to go for the 3rd, like antiga, even though you can go straight natural, you can get surrounded really easily, it's far enough on most maps that 3rd base is the way to go, however, if they pull their drones and everything, go straight for natural it works well on any map imo, not too well for emtombed unless you are fighting at very big choke points
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On June 12 2012 23:06 EtherealDeath wrote:
L, did you know, kitties blink.
Excellent reference is excellent.
hellokitty, with only 4 sentries, is it generally better to pop a guardian shield, or use extra forcefields? Judgement call based upon the map/engagement?
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On June 13 2012 03:47 Chemist391 wrote:Excellent reference is excellent. hellokitty, with only 4 sentries, is it generally better to pop a guardian shield, or use extra forcefields? Judgement call based upon the map/engagement?
Roach has high damage, slow shooting so you'd be negating a pretty small part of the damage. FF you can zone out a good number of roaches and keep them from shooting you. Still, I reflexively pop a GS whenever I engage... might be a bad habit.
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On June 13 2012 03:47 Chemist391 wrote:Excellent reference is excellent. hellokitty, with only 4 sentries, is it generally better to pop a guardian shield, or use extra forcefields? Judgement call based upon the map/engagement?
i usually go with 5, 4 umm, depends on the map, if a lot of chokes go for guardian. I generally get 1 guardian regardless, your FF runs out really quickly, so maybe 2 sets of FF before you have to fight with just blink micro
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Can you hit earlier off a nexus first or is timing about the same?
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On June 13 2012 04:56 CryMore wrote:
Can you hit earlier off a nexus first or is timing about the same?
all depends on your core timing, you probably won't be able to get as much gas and chrono timings will be different
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From my experience Nexus first gives you an extra chronoboost over forge-first and slightly faster probe saturation. Haven't tested timings but I feel like I can hit slightly earlier with my 2-bases off a nexus first. Also I don't believe your core is behind because you get your gateway before your cannon in a nexus first.
Another issue I have is whenever I go for an obsless blink-allin I get shut down hard by burrow. Usually I'm just forced to retreat, probe up and take my third (takes longer because there is often a burrowed ling there now). I'm usually at quite a disadvantage at this point. What is your response to this?
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On June 13 2012 05:33 CryMore wrote:
From my experience Nexus first gives you an extra chronoboost over forge-first and slightly faster probe saturation. Haven't tested timings but I feel like I can hit slightly earlier with my 2-bases off a nexus first. Also I don't believe your core is behind because you get your gateway before your cannon in a nexus first.
Another issue I have is whenever I go for an obsless blink-allin I get shut down hard by burrow. Usually I'm just forced to retreat, probe up and take my third (takes longer because there is often a burrowed ling there now). I'm usually at quite a disadvantage at this point. What is your response to this?
this is an all in for a reason, so w/e that you said is meh, you cant take a 3rd because mass roaches runs you over. if runs into burrow you can just retreat or just bait them to unburrow and blink on top of the small force nexus first +gateway is very greedy, my build is 6/7 pool proof you're welcomed to experiment against 6 pools with nexus first gateway
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I like this as a possible variation but I personally favor something like this only when I have a secondary reason* to think they are not going mass roach. This version, imo, does very well vs 3 base zergs that are teching to some kind of Lair unit (that 8:00 attack with 1 Stalker 5 Zealot hits at a wonderful time to hurt that kind of play). VS the more roach heavy 3 Base plays, I prefer to have pure blink stalkers (no zealots or sentrys). I believe oGsVines is the player that I stole that from.
Very good build here, if you don't have such a timing as a toss you should learn this.
*- meta read, map, etc
Edit- It was Vines http://www.sc2replays.eu/show-replay-17489-0-ogsvines_p_-vs-nmxnoxn_z.html is an example of what I prefer to do vs roach only plays.
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Well I meant Nexus forge gate, not nexus gate. I also have my own way of dealing with early pools and I don't nexus first when I don't get an early scout in.
I personally love blink all-ins but I haven't been able to get it to work at all recently, obsless ones come out early enough but I am forced to fight on creep and my forward pylons are too far back, and obs blink-allins hit wayyy too late. Just seems to kill overly greedy zergs....but alot of 2-base allins kill greedy zergs =/,
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On June 13 2012 05:57 CryMore wrote:
Well I meant Nexus forge gate, not nexus gate. I also have my own way of dealing with early pools and I don't nexus first when I don't get an early scout in.
I personally love blink all-ins but I haven't been able to get it to work at all recently, obsless ones come out early enough but I am forced to fight on creep and my forward pylons are too far back, and obs blink-allins hit wayyy too late. Just seems to kill overly greedy zergs....but alot of 2-base allins kill greedy zergs =/,
The build in the OP and the replay of OGS vines I posted 2 posts up both are ones that either have a way to get an early pylon up OR, in the case of the vines game, do not require an early forward pylon.
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the problem with going pure stalkers is that zerg has a lot of room to micro, and it's easy to get up close to the protoss army and attack
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On June 13 2012 06:05 area51Hellokitty wrote:
the problem with going pure stalkers is that zerg has a lot of room to micro, and it's easy to get up close to the protoss army and attack
I agree, a pure stalker force, for that reason, does BEST against pure roach forces because pure roaches can be abused by terrain and micro more than other Zerg units and they cant do the same in return.
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Am I allowed to ask how to defend this all in? I'm apperantly top 8 masters but keeps losing to this all in on ladder.
Ehm... basically I can't see how to react properly..
-Like I scout late gas on his natural with ovies, and I scout his zealot + stalker + probe + pylon being made as they moves towards my base.
-What happens next is: I either answer with fast lings to prevent further warp ins from pylons or go I earlier roaches, either way I will have to stop droning to deal with the initial 4 gate +1 attack.
-The toss decides to not commit to this 4 gate attack and hits a later blink stalker attack, and I lose as I don't get enough stuff as I had to cut drones earlier on, and from there it was no way coming back.
-Basically, this build exploit the ability to not commit, if u understand what I'm saying.
-What can I do different? I can't just guess his not going 4 gate, that would be stupid, so either way I will suffer economic damage.
.... Well that's why I think it's a good build.
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Kitty: Say I do this build on Antiga or Cloud Kingdom, and I hit the third and he runs with all his stuff to his nat instead of fighting... Do I kill the third and then go to his natural, or do I go straight to his natural to not allow him time to build more roaches?
Yeah I might be flanked by larva from the third, but they will be there regardless unless I stay and kill the larva too?
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I don't think the 8 minute pressure is enough, zerg should have way more than 40 drones by then (~60) and already producing units, so it's kind of an anti-timing. I'm surprised this works, I'll have to look into it as personally the only thing I like about playing protoss is using blink stalkers and the traditional blink all-in is horrible now.
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On June 13 2012 06:30 tehemperorer wrote:
Kitty: Say I do this build on Antiga or Cloud Kingdom, and I hit the third and he runs with all his stuff to his nat instead of fighting... Do I kill the third and then go to his natural, or do I go straight to his natural to not allow him time to build more roaches?
Yeah I might be flanked by larva from the third, but they will be there regardless unless I stay and kill the larva too?
just kill workers, if you feel like you have a big enough army(14-16 stalkers and you can kill your opponent before then) i'd go in, but if you want to play safe, go kill 3rd first, kill all the spawned units, and then warp even more in and attack
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Man, I can't express how wonderful this build is. Although I tried it ~5 times, poor zergies were not even close to holding it. You make PvZ fun again, thanks!
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great to find a solid blink allin build
usually when i want to do this i just go for a normal +1 atk 6gate and make blink too, but hthis is a lot better ^_^
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On June 12 2012 23:41 area51Hellokitty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:34 Rigorous wrote:
I think there are two issues with this build. 1) lings may deny your proxy, so your 4 gate pressure is slightly delayed. 2) Many zergs have 3-5 roaches at 8 min to defend against 4 gate pressure. This minimal amount of roaches can kite your zlots so that your 4 gate pressure effectively did nothing.
In addition, I am not sure your 40 drone count is accurate at 8 min. I think it can be pushing high 40 and even 50.
I've seen Desrow doing a similar 4-gate build into 7 gate blink on his stream. He would die often. I think he quit doing. I am not sure this build can generate an 80% win rate as long as the zerg defends your initial 4 gate pressure with minimal losses. yes, the +1 timing shouldn't be scouted, unless you just have terrible zealot and stalker control, your probe and pylon Shouldn't die. if they push for 50, they will take a lot of damage. and yes, roaches do pop, but you force roaches, and if you do some micro, you can do damage, else just go home and macro if you have less than 200 apm. even if zerg defends first 4 gate pressure with taking No damage, you can still micro your way to victory just by taking the battles at chokes and trap initial units. again, this is a VERY micro intensive build, if you're having players like Desrow who's micro isn't his forte, it's pretty pointless.
I stopped doing it because zergs wouldnt miss injects on korean server and it would lose most of the time esp now that queens are a lot better.
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I definitely don't think this build is any good after all. Unless the zerg is playing risky and takes a lot of damage to the weak and delayed 4 gate pressure, they will easily overpower you. A standard 3 hatch zerg (particularly one who understands the 4 gate +1 timing) will be well prepared for the 4gate and take no losses, resulting in a one-sided battle when you try to attack in with blink stalkers. It's actually even worse than traditional blink all-ins (8 gate +2 attack, straight up attack at 9:30~) which are really bad against 3 hatch, the only upside is that the 4gate timing can sometimes pull wins if your opponent is trying to go straight to muta or some similar risky play.
I'll stick with trying the adonminus style as it can actually pressure before zerg has units out (it hits at around 7 minutes with the 4gate) and really mess with their economy, which helps the blink all-in have a better chance. It's still really risky and there are better PvZ builds, but at least it forces zerg to play reactively instead of just hoping the zerg can't inject at all or isn't droning properly / doesn't build a roach warren.
Ultimately a lot of it comes down to how the zerg handles the first stalker/zealot poke, as that's the only chance you have to throw them off from just having 60 drones and roaches on the way at 8 minutes.
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people need to realize how much emphasis is on "this is a very micro dependent build"
hellokitty rapes me with this build all the time, yet i usually hold against anyone else from a mid master to low-mid GM level
i also agree that this build is much stronger with the 4gate pressure
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right, cwall made a really good point, it's all about how you engage with forcefields and how well your micro is, if you haven't been practicing danglein's micro trainer for blink stalkers to like level 5+ , this build is essentially useless for you if you're going up against high master/gm's
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On June 13 2012 22:31 area51Hellokitty wrote:
right, cwall made a really good point, it's all about how you engage with forcefields and how well your micro is, if you haven't been practicing danglein's micro trainer for blink stalkers to like level 5+ , this build is essentially useless for you if you're going up against high master/gm's
Kitty, I think this build can work and I've used it in the past, but I am struggling with the 80% win rate. You must have Godly micro-control for this claim, and if you have this type of control, then I'm not sure this build is helpful but to only a few people out there. In addition, your perception of the drone count at 40 at 8 minutes is way too low - zergs usually have way more drones. In fact, the high drone count is how zergs hold 8 gates that hit around 8 minutes as well - they have the economy to crush gateway armies.
I agree this build should start with 4-gate pressure, but I think you agreed with me that sometimes you can do basically no damage to the zerg. In this case, the zerg will be nearly maxed at 11 min. In fact, a good zerg will just dance around for a minute until he is maxed at 12 minutes. I can't possibly see how your supply of around 100 with blink stalkers and a few sentries can handle a maxed roach army. I stopped doing this build, because it either works wonderfully (if you can force a lot of units or do damage with the initial 4 gate). But if you don't do damage with this 4-gate, then it seems that you've already lost the game.
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This is awesoem I've been doing 2 base blink allins for a while on maps like korhal compound but never with as precise timings as this. Thanks!
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thanks! the build also allows you to cannon your opponent if they play greedy with hatch first or fast hatch after pool
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Oh, so you are trollololol -.-"
Nice guide!
What do you think of faking the +1 pressure with something like 2 zealots/stalker and pylon cancel?
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it's good to fake pressure? but you should actually pressure with units, back off if you see too many roaches
you only fake pressure if you try to take a fast 3rd and tech differently
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nice build and good job on the wcs run
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how does this build fair vs daul spine cralwers and 8 lings? vs the 1st pressure. (that what i've seen sum pro's do around the 6min mark)
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On June 14 2012 06:25 TibblesEvilCat wrote:
how does this build fair vs daul spine cralwers and 8 lings? vs the 1st pressure. (that what i've seen sum pro's do around the 6min mark)
2 Spines and lings? Just back off he already has been forced to make shit apparently and thats goal. Poke around and clear watch towers find stray things but dont attack the spines or fight a fight on creep.
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Im trying this out and by now I can say that it has worked like 50/50 for me. If I can do damage on the first warpin push, or even force lings/roaches, I can win later. If my initial push got denied, then I most likely lose after this. I'm high diamond btw, was master last season but got demoted on this season.
One thing to notice is the timing. Even if zerg plan is massing roaches stephano style, you got 'em on a really good timing where you can forcefield the hell out of em. 5 sentries seems few, but its enough to keep the threat away from you.
Another thing really important is the engage. You need to engage on small chokes otherwise you'll just die.
I personally dislike any type of all in, but sometimes is all you have and its a powerful tool to have on an arsenal.
Great write up and congrats and good luck on your new team
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Thanks to this build I've yet to lose a single PvZ this season (not including a 6 pool and two random players getting zerg). It's really, really good.
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Zifeng , "Hellokitty", is a great player.
if you're a toss looking for a strong build, this is it!
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You should pay me for that quote I never said
note: this post didn't say that quote even before the edit 
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On June 16 2012 11:32 ASasquatch wrote:
This build has a really powerful timing and is extremely versatile vs almost all zerg builds
Here's some proof
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Hi all, there is. Slight tweak on the build, or I guess, a small note. You really should try to hide the extra 3 Gateways if you can. And take a 3rd nexus right after your first round of stalkers, that way Zerg might think you're playing macro with them then bam, cancel and roll them over with blink stalkers!!
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this looks a lot like kiwikaki's +2 blink all in that has been around forever. how is it different?
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I didnt know anything about kiwikaki's build or his play styles, and I figured out the build order and timing all on my own.
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Great build if you have the micro to back it up
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I do this kind of build a lot, but I do a 2 gateway opening, 4 zealot with +1 attack instead, and then add 5 more gates later (after +2 and blink are started). I remember this used to be popular a while ago, not sure if it is still good, but it works for me I guess lol.
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yea, 2 gate opening not as strong imo, i mean, it's def a variance but do you chrono out zealots? because that generally slows down your warp gates and the initial stalker is meant to kill overlords that are coming into your base as well. i dont think you will get as much sentry energy if you start 2 gate opening, i still beat pros with this build, it's def a solid build to do
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When you do the 4gate push at the 7~8 min mark at the 3rd, what do you do if you see 1 to 2 Spine Crawlers and some zerglings?
I've run into this and the zerg defended the push easily with no apparent damage.
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On July 18 2012 14:45 Yue13 wrote:
When you do the 4gate push at the 7~8 min mark at the 3rd, what do you do if you see 1 to 2 Spine Crawlers and some zerglings?
I've run into this and the zerg defended the push easily with no apparent damage.
If you think he has no roach warren and its only 1-2 spines, back off for 8/12/16 zealots. Lings with no upgrades literally can't be cost effective against zealots with +1 if you keep their numbers high enough.
I've been doing a variation of this build except rather than opening FFE, I go 14 gate 17 nexus, chrono out 2 zealots, chrono out WG, and hit with 4G zealot @7:00. If he builds more than like 40 drones he loses the 3rd and either has to spine the natural or build slow roaches in which case you back off, followup with the blink allin a few minutes later, is good stuff!
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Thanks for the guide, i will try it out.
In the second replay that you listed, DT´s are used instead of the 4 Gate Pressure. In the Replay, the third get´s sniped easy. Do you think that this is better than the 4 Gate pressure?
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versus 1 spine you can still go in with just the first round of warp in, kill the spine, then a lot of zerglings, when you see 2, you can generally just go attack their natural, where it's most likely less defended.
if you warp in more zealots your timing will be Very off.
2nd game is just a play around build i did, it's not as strong as the blink timing due to the amount of gas you spent on dt's and if they don't cripple your opponent really badly you pretty much loses the game.
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On July 18 2012 22:34 area51Hellokitty wrote:
versus 1 spine you can still go in with just the first round of warp in, kill the spine, then a lot of zerglings, when you see 2, you can generally just go attack their natural, where it's most likely less defended.
if you warp in more zealots your timing will be Very off.
2nd game is just a play around build i did, it's not as strong as the blink timing due to the amount of gas you spent on dt's and if they don't cripple your opponent really badly you pretty much loses the game.
Your name is familiar -.-
:D
I'll use this when I offrace protoss!
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On July 18 2012 22:34 area51Hellokitty wrote:
versus 1 spine you can still go in with just the first round of warp in, kill the spine, then a lot of zerglings, when you see 2, you can generally just go attack their natural, where it's most likely less defended.
if you warp in more zealots your timing will be Very off.
2nd game is just a play around build i did, it's not as strong as the blink timing due to the amount of gas you spent on dt's and if they don't cripple your opponent really badly you pretty much loses the game.
Okay, Thanks for the answer! :D
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Great allin! Tried this on ladder and executed it horribly, and still won :D
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Can someone explain to me how this is different from any other blink alllins that all of us protoss already use? And if its not why is is *hellokitty's blink allin'?
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it's a pressure build into blink all in with well timed out 5 sentry with delaying opponent's hatchery timing, i don't see many other protoss using this build
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I expected to see a picture of Hello Kitty! in the OP...
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if what you are saying is true. why doesn't all the pros use this?
and what is zergs counter to this bs?
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flanks, stop making drones and make units, good upgrades on lings really help against this, and dont lose units early to ff's.
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study this build zergs, then you can just blind counter it every game
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I've been using this build alot lately, except with a different variation, I 4gate zealot pressure the 3rd after ffe and then transition into 7gate blink +2 and hit again at 10-11 min mark.. been noticing the 4gate throws the zerg's timings off and they will have fewer units due to them having to redrone, or if they made units instead of drones during/after the 4gate pressure they will feel off economically...
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On August 05 2012 10:31 Pylons wrote:
I've been using this build alot lately, except with a different variation, I 4gate zealot pressure the 3rd after ffe and then transition into 7gate blink +2 and hit again at 10-11 min mark.. been noticing the 4gate throws the zerg's timings off and they will have fewer units due to them having to redrone, or if they made units instead of drones during/after the 4gate pressure they will feel off economically...
Lol your "variation" is exactly what the build says to do, 4 gate zealot pressure into blink timing, so what do you mean your variation?
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Is this build possible to do on all ladder maps?
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This build is amazing... I kinda have problems with zerg if he takes like a 6:30~6:40ish roach warren timing, cuts drones, and pumps pure units. He's behind economically, but he still has overall more units.
Thoughts?
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dont suicide zealots, or even make them if your pylons are dead, just power straight up to 7 gates and do a timing that's earlier.
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In recent games this build stopped working for me. It worked incredible the first few games but now it seems that zerg figured it out. Oh well, I'll give it another shot.
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On August 06 2012 08:38 LGStarcraft wrote:
In recent games this build stopped working for me. It worked incredible the first few games but now it seems that zerg figured it out. Oh well, I'll give it another shot.
it doesn't work 100%, it's all about the micro, and not all builds have 100% win ratios if you play against the same people over and over you aren't going to win with it.
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On August 06 2012 08:40 area51Hellokitty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 08:38 LGStarcraft wrote:
In recent games this build stopped working for me. It worked incredible the first few games but now it seems that zerg figured it out. Oh well, I'll give it another shot. it doesn't work 100%, it's all about the micro, and not all builds have 100% win ratios if you play against the same people over and over you aren't going to win with it.
Definitely. I can really see the effectiveness of this build, but I think for the games I lost I just engaged poorly. I tend to get caught out on the open fields so it's hard to set up concaves or use FF's effectively without getting overrun. Roaches are so slippery and can a-move right past your FF's if they aren't perfect.
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yea, thats why you have to have a good map awareness, sometimes it might be good to have a scouting stalker in the front of your army, it's also good to just hug walls,
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I've gone a few of your replays and although I haven't seen all the VODS, I feel like most replays your 4 gate pressure does quite a bit of damage. Maybe I missed the ones it didn't, but it'd be awesome to see if your build works if your pressure is completely deflected. Of course, the point of the build IS to deal damage when zerg is droning up and forcing zerg to make units, but in the event that the zerg scouts it coming and properly defends without taking a hit to his economy, do you continue with the all-in?
I guess my point is that in the event that your pressure does 0 damage, do you transition to another strat or stick with it? Thanks i really like this build
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I have no idea why you are claiming this build is yours. MC and others used this build more than a year ago. Your version isn't even optimized. 14 forge is pretty bad unless its a 4 player map or you want to cannon rush. You can get away with gate before cannon if you don't scout a 12\13 pool. Furthermore, this build shouldn't work anymore against a competent zerg. If their macro is good, all they need is roaches and they will eventually win. I'm not trying to be one of those guys that just complains about everything all the time. But I just don't understand why you are trying to take credit for a build that is obviously not yours.
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On August 06 2012 16:26 PandaTank wrote:
I have no idea why you are claiming this build is yours. MC and others used this build more than a year ago. Your version isn't even optimized. 14 forge is pretty bad unless its a 4 player map or you want to cannon rush. You can get away with gate before cannon if you don't scout a 12\13 pool. Furthermore, this build shouldn't work anymore against a competent zerg. If their macro is good, all they need is roaches and they will eventually win. I'm not trying to be one of those guys that just complains about everything all the time. But I just don't understand why you are trying to take credit for a build that is obviously not yours.
It's his version of the build. He didn't create the build, he refined it into his own
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On August 06 2012 16:45 LiLSighKoh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:26 PandaTank wrote:
I have no idea why you are claiming this build is yours. MC and others used this build more than a year ago. Your version isn't even optimized. 14 forge is pretty bad unless its a 4 player map or you want to cannon rush. You can get away with gate before cannon if you don't scout a 12\13 pool. Furthermore, this build shouldn't work anymore against a competent zerg. If their macro is good, all they need is roaches and they will eventually win. I'm not trying to be one of those guys that just complains about everything all the time. But I just don't understand why you are trying to take credit for a build that is obviously not yours. It's his version of the build. He didn't create the build, he refined it into his own
That's kind of the point. I dont see any refinement here. I've seen other players using this build for months. I myself have been using this exact same build at least 6 months ago. It's nothing original. And since zergs learnt the 3base style, as well as figured out the 4gate timings, its a pretty bad build in my opinion.
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so far i'm 2-0 with this build on ladder (diamond toss), and obviously, my timings/macro aren't even optimal yet.
the last guy I played had like 14 more roaches than I had stalkers when I did the heavy push (also, my opening zlots didn't do much at all other than scout), but his 14 extra roaches were still 0/0, and my 2/0 not-even-halfway-decent-blink-micro'd-stalkers still owned everything easily.
on maps like ohana or entombed, the 4 sentries are MORE than enough to setup some incredibly favorable engagements where you can trade and cripple the zerg.
thanks for sharing this, I was getting so sick and fucking tired of stargate openings, but that was really the only way I would see any success against zerg, which I generally struggle with.
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Great more protoss allins on ladder, as if there were not already enough. Thanks for this......
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On August 07 2012 04:04 Swwww wrote:
Great more protoss allins on ladder, as if there were not already enough. Thanks for this......
LoL, as a diamond Zerg myself, I understand the sentiment, but this build is nothing new. You've probably been seeing this build for months.
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As a masters zerg I would rather not face worthless protoss players using these allin builds every single game since they are all terrified of macro games. There should be less of these guides and more of people learning stuff on their own instead of having builds which are purely designed to collect immaterial ladder points at the expense of any form of improvement whatsoever.
Edit: I am surprised this isn't called the FisherPrice build or something.
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I faced a masters zerg who went fast burrow, and I could not push since I had no obs. Eventually lost the game.
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On August 07 2012 06:10 Swwww wrote:
As a masters zerg I would rather not face worthless protoss players using these allin builds every single game since they are all terrified of macro games. There should be less of these guides and more of people learning stuff on their own instead of having builds which are purely designed to collect immaterial ladder points at the expense of any form of improvement whatsoever.
Edit: I am surprised this isn't called the FisherPrice build or something.
Funny.. I recall a while back all Protoss faced were Roach/Ling all-ins for a full season at minimum..
This is just another build you can place in your arsenal, it isn't a permanent solution.
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On August 07 2012 06:10 Swwww wrote:
As a masters zerg I would rather not face worthless protoss players using these allin builds every single game since they are all terrified of macro games. There should be less of these guides and more of people learning stuff on their own instead of having builds which are purely designed to collect immaterial ladder points at the expense of any form of improvement whatsoever.
Edit: I am surprised this isn't called the FisherPrice build or something.
Friend, every single race in the game of has builds like this. then guides bu buy then guides buy tang starcraft 4 silly 1 and 2 base all ins. There is no reason to speak like an angry ladder kid , when someone simply wants to share a 2 base build to get his name out a bit. I'm not sure why your comment has not been removed from this thread but whatever I suppose.
Regarding my thoughts on the build, this is almost an auto win assuming any reasonable level of execution, until the low masters level. After that, the success of this build often relies on damage dealt by the early zealot pressure. Blink stalkers are great when ahead. If no damage is dealt and the zerg responds properly, the ability to win is very low. It is much less robust in an even game than a sentry immortal allin. But it is, however, a great way to practice your blink micro!
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this works well even in high masters, someone from 500 masters went 5-0 vs his teammate, who was a 1400 masters
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Thank you for this guide Kittycat!
(I dont care whose build it is, I give credit to the one who takes time to make a good guide out of it. I can’t learn a build as easy by just watching MC or some other pro play it...)
Anyway. I am a low/mid master and so far I’ve won 9/11 games or something like that with this build. Didnt even have to practise the timings against a computer. I think that the real strength of this build is that you can execute it fairly well even if you mix some of the timings up, or go for some cannon and pylonblocks in the beginning. As long as you do some distraction/damage with your zealots and attack with the stalkers with a good +blink +2attack timing, then Z-boy usually isnt ready after your initial harass.
IF the Zlime is ready for you when you go for your attack, then I find it completely fine to back of, stop unit production for a short while and get a third and robo up. With your sentries +blinkstalkers +2 you can defend it quite well while teching up to 3base +3 colossus for a third powerful timing. The fact that Zergie manages to repell your second attack earlier usually means that he’s been neglecting more drones than usual.
Anyone else that share these experiences?
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With WCS North America a month away, what are your expectations and goals for this tournament? How are you preparing for WCS? What made you decide to not play MLG but only WCS?
I would like to win it for sure (but it is not completely necessary as I did get a WCS Worlds seed from 1st place at Canada), but I think it will be much harder than WCS Canada was. Specifically I will probably be playing against ROOTMajOr In the semifinals if I am seeded 2nd and him 3rd, along with possibly running into very strong NA players such as HuK, IdrA, Illusion, as well as Hellokitty's amazing blink stalker all-ins earlier on in the bracket. I am preparing for WCS no different than what I usually do; watch tournaments, watch Zerg pro players stream, and occasionally play ladder. I chose to not play MLG open bracket as well, because I don't want to feel stressed and pressed for time like IPL4 open bracket, which could hinder my play at WCS (which is the most important to me right now)
Source: http://www.itsgosu.com/game/sc2/articles/interview-with-sasha-scarlett-hostyn_637
Even the rising star, Scarlett, acknowledges your blink stalker all-in
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EDIT: omg i thought i was posting in a dif thread im so dumbbb...
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+1 4gate timing with forge still getting chronoed and no 3rd. Well this is easiest build to read, so it's going to be pretty arcady match with micro.
Little tired, someone wanna explain how this is different from normal +1 4gate into blink timing. Because this build seems something what 3base nogas roachling defence is good against.
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the pylon block really slows down zerg economy, well, larva in general, they will have at least 1 or 2 round less of larva injects, which means LESS Army and LESS economy.
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your all in is fucking amazing dude. I did it once so far, forgot to pylon block even and raped the shit out of a Z on cloud. ♥ you forever and I hope this thread stays underground
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lol, 21k+ views, 90% zergs 
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Hate to bump threads that are pretty old, but I have a question about this.
Why not take a third around 12:00? Whenever I do the build, I have no gas but ~1.5k minerals by 15:00, so why not just take a third as soon as you can afford it? Maybe my macro's just bad, but I always have tons of spare minerals but no gas.
You could then mine at least the gas there, and support more gateways!
Here's a replay of me crushing a Zerg with it:
http://drop.sc/257523
I wish there was a way to reactively do it (say, I scout he's going for fast mutas)
however, there's no way to do that. It's still a sick all-in and awesome to use against friends and ladder opponents who are BM :D
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hi, first of all, your version is a slight variation, when you sacrificed probe production to get 4 gateways(a bit faster than mine) with a nexus first build, your +1 zealot timing didnt line up with your pylon timing, i dont think they were even warped in(extra 400 minerals), you didnt mine from your 4th gas for a good minute or so, you had only 3 sentries, your chrono usage was off, and yes, 2 bases can support only 6 gateways, thats why you have extra gas banked up that way you dont have to warp in zealots instead of stalkers towards the end, and you shouldn't have extra minerals because the most efficient way is to make only 46 probes.
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On September 25 2012 21:49 area51Hellokitty wrote:
hi, first of all, your version is a slight variation, when you sacrificed probe production to get 4 gateways(a bit faster than mine) with a nexus first build, your +1 zealot timing didnt line up with your pylon timing, i dont think they were even warped in(extra 400 minerals), you didnt mine from your 4th gas for a good minute or so, you had only 3 sentries, your chrono usage was off, and yes, 2 bases can support only 6 gateways, thats why you have extra gas banked up that way you dont have to warp in zealots instead of stalkers towards the end, and you shouldn't have extra minerals because the most efficient way is to make only 46 probes.
Yeah, I wasn't actually going off the build order I read it a long time ago, thought "damn that's strong", and now that I've raceswitched I tried it out. I just did a general 4gate +1 into 7gate +2 blink doing things as I go, but after rereading this a few times I think I'll execute it a lot better ^^
I'm bad at proxy pylons, I suppose I should make a few hidden ones BEFORE I actually need the warp-in. I still felt ahead after the failed 4gate +1 because he only had like, 40 drones. A smarter warp in could've forced even more lings.
I did execute it badly, forgot to chrono +2, forgot to mine the last gas (I swear my shift and control keys are buggy), but it was still terribly effective.
I had too many probes resulting in too many minerals? Okay, good to know. Final question: During the attack, is it worth it to dump chrono's into your WGs? If you can't even support production, I can't see any chrono usage being valuable at all...
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chorono into gates only if you need immediate units and have the apm to do so, else just focus on the fights, it's hard to warp in while fighting, but thats why you need chrono to make sure you $ stay under 300 at all time.
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I would like you to not only add supplycounts but also add the ingame timings (clock)
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I recently started playing sc2 again and I have always had problems vs zerg so I'm gonna try this.
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done, hope my guide is helping all the protoss fellas out there ^.^
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AWESOME BUILD! ♥ you areakitty :D
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Great build! Personally, I found a transition use for this. I open FFE +1 2gate to 4 gate DTs! I get the TC early enough anyway, and if for whatever reason I need to abandon DTs, it's real easy to switch into +2 blink stalkers off of 2 bases, they handle anything at that point!
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^That's basically the same thing as 4gate +1, except you're safer against roach/ling all ins.
Both ways you attack with a lot of zealots once +1 finishes, I'd say that 4gate +1 is probably better because it's harder to scout, and you get 4 gateways. Still good to do though.
4gate +1 into DTs is apparently really good lol, honestly 4gate +1 into anything is awesome. Zergs in diamond/low masters can't scout 4g+1 to save their life haha
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Is this two stage timing attack generally more effective than going straight to the 7 gate+2 blink timing (which hits about a minute earlier than the two stage variation)?
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^For sure.
Zergs at my level (mid/high diamond) are so bad, they don't throw down a 6:30 roach warren when there's no gas at your natural at that time. As a result, 4gate +1 will always do TONS of damage.
Teoita even says that his go-to PvZ strat is 4gate +1 into (6 gate?) DTs, because zergs even at his level fail to scout the attack and as a result aren't prepared.
Basically, 4gate +1 delays your push by a little bit, but you need a mineral dump anyways to get sentries, and sentries are a great addition to your blink stalker force. IMO it's always worth it to do the 4gate +1 pressure before the 7gate +2 blink.
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yea, i have another build that i might put up with 4 gate dt into fast 3rd, though if your opponent doesnt make roaches they can just die to the +1 zealots
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On September 29 2012 08:04 area51Hellokitty wrote:
yea, i have another build that i might put up with 4 gate dt into fast 3rd, though if your opponent doesnt make roaches they can just die to the +1 zealots
Definitely put it up please!
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On September 29 2012 08:04 area51Hellokitty wrote:
yea, i have another build that i might put up with 4 gate dt into fast 3rd, though if your opponent doesnt make roaches they can just die to the +1 zealots
Looking forward to that! Also, quick question do you have any replays under the current patch?
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I wondering if you win games because opponents cannot take your name seriously
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 29 2012 12:30 BoZiffer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:04 area51Hellokitty wrote:
yea, i have another build that i might put up with 4 gate dt into fast 3rd, though if your opponent doesnt make roaches they can just die to the +1 zealots Looking forward to that! Also, quick question do you have any replays under the current patch?
Why? Just do the same build, but instead of getting blink/+2 you grab a Dark shrine, and instead of adding 3 more gates you build a nexus...
I wouldn't call it "fast" third as it'll be ~10:00, but it's still considered macro except for the fact it's DT cheese. I imagine you'd add a robo/+2/blink/sentries, then push at 170 food with sentry/immortal/stalker/archon/chargelot and +3
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Mostly the current replays question was for selfish reasons (wanted to watch replays without being logged out of Battle.net) :D Also, forgive me for my lack of understanding - just picked up Protoss and am still feeling my way through the dark, so to speak.
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http://drop.sc/259145
here it is! just answered the other guy's question!
and yea, it's a bit different of a build order, i'll find some time to put it up eventually :D
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Since I'm zerg can you post reps where the z deals with it properly? Preferably with you getting smashed. =P
But seriously I have no idea how I'm supposed to adjust and when to cut drones, ect.
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Games where I've lost as toss is when a zerg cuts drone production and mass a bit of lings with lots of scouting around 9 min mark. They take out my proxy pylon and delay me a good 1 whole minute to make enough roaches to pull through. Since this build is pretty tight on gas, a toss will eventually run out of sentries and go mass stalkers, this is why a lot of lings is good.
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EPT
