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On June 20 2012 05:03 RealRook wrote:
This build is really not safe on daybreak for example because you only have one observer and it is in zergs base to see if he goes fast hive / mutas etc so split attacks, run-by etc are so hard to stop, i think you need at least 2 observers.
Parting did a much safer 3rd nexus at 8:30 in the GSL vs Symbol on Cloud Kingdom today. If this build became popular it would be way too easy to crush but now zergs dont abuse it cause they usually dont know what to do.
it is for sure safe on daybreak
you can t think you play this build 1 time and then it works
you have to practice that
partings 3. is 1 minute later, you can t keep up with a zerg in eco if the zerg decides to fully drone with a 8.30 nexus
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In my opinion this build is great if zerg decides to play roach heavy. Then you can split and defend relatively easy. But if zerg realizes what you are doing he can just expand and go for heavy muta play. For me the only reliable way to beat mutas is if you open stargate. Mass mutas are really hard to deal with even with high templar.
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On June 21 2012 19:33 Brainiak wrote:
In my opinion this build is great if zerg decides to play roach heavy. Then you can split and defend relatively easy. But if zerg realizes what you are doing he can just expand and go for heavy muta play. For me the only reliable way to beat mutas is if you open stargate. Mass mutas are really hard to deal with even with high templar.
Yep, I've just stolen a build from oz that he used on the gsl the other day. He gets twilight council after 3 gates and then adds the robo. This build way better against muta and you get +2 attack instead of armour so it's just a better build overall imo. I've been using it and prefer it WAY more. If you're interested it's oz vs violet in the gsl 1st game.
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United States8476 Posts
On June 21 2012 22:59 cvgHuShang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 19:33 Brainiak wrote:
In my opinion this build is great if zerg decides to play roach heavy. Then you can split and defend relatively easy. But if zerg realizes what you are doing he can just expand and go for heavy muta play. For me the only reliable way to beat mutas is if you open stargate. Mass mutas are really hard to deal with even with high templar. Yep, I've just stolen a build from oz that he used on the gsl the other day. He gets twilight council after 3 gates and then adds the robo. This build way better against muta and you get +2 attack instead of armour so it's just a better build overall imo. I've been using it and prefer it WAY more. If you're interested it's oz vs violet in the gsl 1st game.
CreatorPrime does this build all the time on his stream and he was the first one to use it in a broadcasted game, vs Moon in the GSTL.
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On June 21 2012 22:59 cvgHuShang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 19:33 Brainiak wrote:
In my opinion this build is great if zerg decides to play roach heavy. Then you can split and defend relatively easy. But if zerg realizes what you are doing he can just expand and go for heavy muta play. For me the only reliable way to beat mutas is if you open stargate. Mass mutas are really hard to deal with even with high templar. Yep, I've just stolen a build from oz that he used on the gsl the other day. He gets twilight council after 3 gates and then adds the robo. This build way better against muta and you get +2 attack instead of armour so it's just a better build overall imo. I've been using it and prefer it WAY more. If you're interested it's oz vs violet in the gsl 1st game.
i am interested
where can i find a vod or sth like that?
i don t have a gsl pass
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I'm not sure what exactly about the OP made me understand this matchup a lot better and this is hardly the place to discuss the matter. However, what I am sure about is that for the first time in months I'm confident when facing a zerg which does this type of build.
Thank you for not only a build, but a good explanation of the matchup.
Current stats: 3-0 against zerg, mid-high plat.
Advice for all middle-ladder-dwellers out there: try it. Some build are only applicable at a higher level, this is quite ok at least from plat up  .
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On June 23 2012 06:04 moQbara wrote:I'm not sure what exactly about the OP made me understand this matchup a lot better and this is hardly the place to discuss the matter. However, what I am sure about is that for the first time in months I'm confident when facing a zerg which does this type of build. Thank you for not only a build, but a good explanation of the matchup. Current stats: 3-0 against zerg, mid-high plat. Advice for all middle-ladder-dwellers out there: try it. Some build are only applicable at a higher level, this is quite ok at least from plat up .
thank you
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Hey, that guide is fantastic! Here you have your spanish fanboy! <3
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On July 04 2012 20:28 ToXiCSPA wrote:
Hey, that guide is fantastic! Here you have your spanish fanboy! <3
<3
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ive seen puck do a build sort of like this. He goes for a quick 2 gates and then expos off o that then he throws down a bunch more gates twilight robo and another forge, and a templar archives. Its a lot of tech but he uses robo for wp and only warps in zealots to snipe hatch/tech while all gas goes toward ups templar etc. Do you think that this style is a reliable way to play?
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I've been doing this build too and this is a very strong build but u guys have to note something
1/ Around 14-15 mins is a good time to attack with this build
2/ DO NOT GET EAGER AND MOVE OUT WITH UR ARMY BEFORE Then, good Zerg will surround and murder u
3/ At the 14mins mark push with atleast 1 collo, or AOE units
4/ while pushing add 4 moregates it will help u over run zerg base
5/ U have to run ur 1st zealot to his 3rd to see if he is all in or not, some zerg will do 2 bases all in and can kill u
( at around 6-7 mins if see no 3rd it proberly a 2 bases play or all in)
If any of those things are wrong just say ^.^
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I love this build! really helped me get back on terms with zerg. with regards to the muta, as he mentions in OP you should scout it comfortably with the hallu phoenix giving enough time to prepare. The phoenix scouting is critical for me anyways. Thanks for a great build!
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On July 05 2012 12:03 KinoKnighT wrote:
I've been doing this build too and this is a very strong build but u guys have to note something
1/ Around 14-15 mins is a good time to attack with this build
2/ DO NOT GET EAGER AND MOVE OUT WITH UR ARMY BEFORE Then, good Zerg will surround and murder u
3/ At the 14mins mark push with atleast 1 collo, or AOE units
4/ while pushing add 4 moregates it will help u over run zerg base
5/ U have to run ur 1st zealot to his 3rd to see if he is all in or not, some zerg will do 2 bases all in and can kill u
( at around 6-7 mins if see no 3rd it proberly a 2 bases play or all in)
If any of those things are wrong just say ^.^
well number 5 is wrong, because this build is designed against a 3 base gasless zerg, so you just use this build against 3 hatch builds
also you shout scout with a probe and not with the zealot, the 3. hatch timing is extremly important
the other points are correct and i m kinda using the same timings, but it s as always depending on my opponent
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well u can still do this build if zerg 2 base fast gas though just do the intuitive thing and with good zerg ur probe cannot scout between 6-7 mins
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On July 05 2012 21:22 KinoKnighT wrote:
well u can still do this build if zerg 2 base fast gas though just do the intuitive thing and with good zerg ur probe cannot scout between 6-7 mins
you have to scout at the 4 minute mark, any scout later is pointless
and this build sucks vs 2 base gas builds, because they go for a tech build, either fast infestors or fast mutas
those techs are too early for the toss to deal with, those mutas for example arrive 2 minutes earlier, you won t be able to defend them like usual
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i know the replays can t be downloaded anymore
drop.sc is down
i sadly deleted those replays from my pc
that means i ll have to collect again
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On July 09 2012 00:05 myRZeth wrote:
i know the replays can t be downloaded anymore
drop.sc is down
i sadly deleted those replays from my pc
that means i ll have to collect again
That is a shame it is down because I really wanted to see how you respond to Mutalisks. I always seem to take considerable damage from them when trying to take a third without a Stargate with a style extremely similar to this. I actually gave it up because of Mutalisks.
I assume your response to Spire tech is you scout with Hallucination then build defensive cannons and rush to Blink and then Storm? If I scout a bunch of gasses early and a lots of Lings I am able to deal with the Spire, but my problem always seems to be I see a bunch of Roaches and build Immortals/Sentries, then they switch to Mutalisks and unless I happen to scout the Spire transition (which is difficult because it seems like every Zerg builds Spore Crawlers near their mineral lines, and the Spire is often located there) I am caught without defensive cannons or Blink and take a massive amount of damage. Maybe I should just start building cannons proactively.
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On July 09 2012 01:27 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:05 myRZeth wrote:
i know the replays can t be downloaded anymore
drop.sc is down
i sadly deleted those replays from my pc
that means i ll have to collect again That is a shame it is down because I really wanted to see how you respond to Mutalisks. I always seem to take considerable damage from them when trying to take a third without a Stargate with a style extremely similar to this. I actually gave it up because of Mutalisks. I assume your response to Spire tech is you scout with Hallucination then build defensive cannons and rush to Blink and then Storm? If I scout a bunch of gasses early and a lots of Lings I am able to deal with the Spire, but my problem always seems to be I see a bunch of Roaches and build Immortals/Sentries, then they switch to Mutalisks and unless I happen to scout the Spire transition (which is difficult because it seems like every Zerg builds Spore Crawlers near their mineral lines, and the Spire is often located there) I am caught without defensive cannons or Blink and take a massive amount of damage. Maybe I should just start building cannons proactively.
no my response is adding cannons as soon as i see the spire
then i drop down 2 stargates and start
+1 air weapons
all you have to do is to defend his first 15-20 mutas with as less damage as possible
so, you build cannons where he might come, it s often very obvious and you might also see where he s heading with your observer
you add 5 stalkers to your cannon defence and defend with your first 4-x phoenix his mutas, after that it s just massing phoenix and scouting whether he goes corrupters or infestors
then you can change your style, often ht tech afterwards is the best choice
also you said you can t scout the spire because the zerg builds spores
if you go for hallu you will see the spire no matter what, because you can just fly over the spore and sac the hallucination
with the observer you can scout how many gases he has
roaches=4 gases
ling roach=3 gases
mutas=6gases
and always look whether he builds more lings than usual, it s an indicator that he s spending his gas on sth else
does this help you? my replays would explain that better i m sure
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Hey dude. One thing I noticed on your replays is that you dont really have continuous probe production in the first 10 minutes. Is there any reason for that or is it just mistakes? Because I the Ohana game vs Elvis you have 45 vs 80 at one moment, and I dont think thats an advantage for you :p
If you could shed some light on it it would be awesome.
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On July 09 2012 10:13 Daimai wrote:
Hey dude. One thing I noticed on your replays is that you dont really have continuous probe production in the first 10 minutes. Is there any reason for that or is it just mistakes? Because I the Ohana game vs Elvis you have 45 vs 80 at one moment, and I dont think thats an advantage for you :p
If you could shed some light on it it would be awesome.
well i can t build probes constantly, because if i do so i m not safe anymore
the thing is, he drones extremly hard and follows that up with a tech
i m defending his tech efficently while probing up, as soon as i see him not trying to kill him i can build probes and try to catch up
you simply can t be even vs zerg, it s impossible, i mean in dronecount
does this help you?
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EPT
