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On November 02 2012 10:17 SpoogeCoffer wrote:
Yo jak, you need to stop sucking dicks with this levels crap and make some core vids. Ain't no one ever going to take that levels shit seriously.
The problem with getting people to use TheCore is that no one wants to read paragraphs upon paragraphs of crap on a hotkey layout if they're 'content' with their current one.
What you need to make is a series of easily digestable concise videos about TheCore and why people should use it.
I'm thinking like a series of 10 or so short 2-3 minute videos with the first one being 'the hook'.
People who want to promote the core can simply link that one video to hook in people and then the series will guide them through the learning process.
Break thecore down into small aspects and each video can cover one concept - begining with the conceptualisation of the problem and leading into your solution... including demonstations of the problem and solution.
Example Video: 'Control Groups and Returning Workers to Mining'... Problem: With a standard layout the process for adding units to control groups involves the use of two modifier keys and using a worker to build a series of buildings and return to working requires ... Demonstation Video of problem: ... Solution of problem with TheCore: ... Demonstation Video of Solution: ...
"No one?" Please stop assuming you are the majority.
You're essentially asking for a TL;DR, which is downright rude to the people who have set aside very many hours of their time to make this hotkey layout a reality. Just read the post. Skim it, if you want. Either way, it won't take too much of your time.
Besides, TheLevels (now TheStaircase) is far more important imo. TheCore is just a hotkey layout which polishes efficiency. However, you can't utilize that extra efficiency to get a cut above the rest unless you have good macro. TheStaircase not just improves your macro, but also your micro and multitasking, which is a fantastic bonus.
It's not even fully released yet, either. The title is "[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout (beta)." The videos you are requesting will be posted on the full release.
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On November 02 2012 12:01 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 10:17 SpoogeCoffer wrote:
Yo jak, you need to stop sucking dicks with this levels crap and make some core vids. Ain't no one ever going to take that levels shit seriously.
The problem with getting people to use TheCore is that no one wants to read paragraphs upon paragraphs of crap on a hotkey layout if they're 'content' with their current one.
What you need to make is a series of easily digestable concise videos about TheCore and why people should use it.
I'm thinking like a series of 10 or so short 2-3 minute videos with the first one being 'the hook'.
People who want to promote the core can simply link that one video to hook in people and then the series will guide them through the learning process.
Break thecore down into small aspects and each video can cover one concept - begining with the conceptualisation of the problem and leading into your solution... including demonstations of the problem and solution.
Example Video: 'Control Groups and Returning Workers to Mining'... Problem: With a standard layout the process for adding units to control groups involves the use of two modifier keys and using a worker to build a series of buildings and return to working requires ... Demonstation Video of problem: ... Solution of problem with TheCore: ... Demonstation Video of Solution: ...
"No one?" Please stop assuming you are the majority. You're essentially asking for a TL;DR, which is downright rude to the people who have set aside very many hours of their time to make this hotkey layout a reality. Just read the post. Skim it, if you want. Either way, it won't take too much of your time. Besides, TheLevels (now TheStaircase) is far more important imo. TheCore is just a hotkey layout which polishes efficiency. However, you can't utilize that extra efficiency to get a cut above the rest unless you have good macro. TheStaircase not just improves your macro, but also your micro and multitasking, which is a fantastic bonus. It's not even fully released yet, either. The title is "[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout (beta)." The videos you are requesting will be posted on the full release.
I'm saying this not as a person looking to learn it - I did learn it and am the type of person who does read shit thoroughly and have no personal qualm with doing do. So I say this rather as someone who wants to promote TheCore to other people. Your average person isn't going to want to invest the 10-15 minutes into the tedious task of reading the OP albeit it as 'well laid out' as it is. What TheCore really needs to get wide-spread usage is a short 2-3 minute promotional 'hook' video which your average person will be willing to watch and digest, a video which will essentially spark interest in the layout by briefly outlining why the average Starcraft player should invest the time required into changing their play style. A video that will leave them wanting to learn the hotkey layout by giving a brief overarching view of some of the more neat features of TheCore. When when you've piqued their interest you can lead this into a series of videos looking at each individual aspect in more detail which can serve as a fast go-to for the actual learning of TheCore.
My point with TheLevels is that there are undeniably 100's of ways of going about actually getting better at SC while TheCore is arguably the best layout available at the current time because of the principles of its design. While TheCore is by no means perfect it can be shown that it is objectively superior to standard by quite a large margin. But people aren't going to understand WHY it is better without being shown.
I propose to enlighten people about the design of TheCore with a series of videos that approach introducing TheCore by identifying the problems inherent with hotkeys in the general sense thus showing your understanding before showing the particular solution that TheCore offers. You can show these problems that exist regardless by looking at something most people coming to this topic are going to be familiar with and that is the standard hotkey layout. You then contrast the standard hotkeys solution of the problems with TheCores solution of the problems to contrast the two and hence demonstrate why TheCore is objectively better than standard.
Such a series of videos would allow the average SC player to see the design principles of hotkey layouts. By not just presenting TheCore as a hotkey layout but rather as a solution to definitive problems you open up peoples minds to the possibilities of other solutions/ideas to the presented problems. These solutions could then be incorporated back into the overall hotkey solution that TheCore is. I feel that TheCore is sufficiently evolved now that the rarity of these events is going to be great - however there are other solutions that could exist that we have not yet seen that might be objectively better and help TheCore to evolve further.
The problem with people adopting TheCore is not TheCore itself, I believe everyone is willing to try something that will make them better. The problem is in conveying that TheCore is going to give you an advantage and demonstrating WHY that is. Of course anyone that reads the OP will get the why, but not everyone is willing to invest the time in doing so. A more accessible introduction to TheCore is necessary to make it easier for people to promote it which I'm sure every core user would like to do, but currently they can only link to this topic to do so and the natural reaction for most people who are linked a wall of text to do is to put it on their "I will read that later" list.
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Let me break it down further into topics that could be made into videos:
The hook video would detail the basic design principles of TheCore including its frequentest approach to positioning hotkeys, the left/right nature of control groups and abilities and then provide a couple of neat specific implementations of combos from the videos in the series (such as injecting).
Problem: Caster/Harrass/Army/Macro Control Groups
Standard Solution/s: ...
TheCore Solution: ... Basic left/right design in action. As well as demonstrating how much easier it is to access your control groups and actually showing what each key should be used for.
Problem: Getting around the map.
Standard Solution/s: ...
TheCore Solution: ... Specifically base cameras. Contain this video to the likes of dealing with harrass / general swapping between bases.
Problem: Injecting with queens.
Standard Solution/s: ...
TheCore Solution: ... This evolves from the previous video.
Problem: Adding Units to Control Groups / Control group control.
Standard Solution/s: ...
TheCore Solution: ... Specific examples would be baneling/ling control, ctrl+clicking a unit on screen and adding it to a control group, as well as egg handling.
Problem: Building Units / Upgrades.
Standard Solution/s: ...
TheCore Solution: ... Specifically the usage of tabbed production over the likes of the warp-in mechanic / separate control groups for factories/barracks/starport etc. And the incorporation of tabbed production for upgrades with your standard macro-mechanics so that you are constantly checking them.
Problem: Worker Commands.
Standard Solution/s: ...
TheCore Solution: ... Specific example would be using a probe to build a series of buildings and return to mining.
...etc there are quite a few more particular problems that can be addressed with their own videos.
Obviously the videos can't be general for the particular keys that you need to press to do things given the 48 versions but it will be easier to demonstrate if you reference specific keys in the videos. So the core version to use for the demonstation videos should be the version that is to date the most popular (has the most downloads).
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Hey man, I totally appreciate you taking the time to come up with all of this. But I don't understand why you think that these videos aren't already out because of TheStaircase. I have a shit ton of things to be doing at all times and there are only so many hours in the day. Believe me, I want to make these videos, and will, but it is going to take some time. If you want to offer me help like this, it is not necessary to put down my other tool and make some comment about sucking dicks. I know what you're getting at, but you're presenting your ideas very abrasively. No need to be rude, we're all friends here 
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Dear JaK
you have the patience of an elephant :D you're the best! and dont let any1 else say diff!
@SpoogeCoffer - i understand what you are talking about, when i first switched to "TheCore" i tried reading all the texts and watch the videos but i was too eager and wanted to jump right in (cuz im so gosu and all - switching hotkeys after 2 years is a piece of cake...NOT)
and i had a very similar feeling to what you are describing like "so what CG is for hatches?" "umm which keys are my CGs?" "cameras... any1 saw them?" "and where is the goddamn menu button?!" which resulted in a rage quit on the next couple of games....
then i sat down to read it all... and played a bit with the simulator, and even opened up the hotkey file itself to compare it with "TheCore DataSheet" just to be sure that when i remember something new - its the right 1
and guess what after 1 week of feeling like a dude that never played a computer game in his life - i started to really ease into it and to see some results :D
easy videos are cool - but you still need to learn from them watching a vid <> learning
but looking for answers does
taking the first step requires the most energy
Cheers JaK!
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Sorry about my English,, but I want to say something about this layout.
Hey Jak... I'm trying the layout,, and there just one thing so far I would like to change.
F8 and F7... Cancel and pause... Those buttons are too close,, and I had pressed F7 instead of F8 some times.
I think F8 could be there,, and I would be nice if you move pause to F10 or some other F#
Hope you understand my idea. Thanks 
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On November 05 2012 09:00 Kwodahn wrote:Sorry about my English,, but I want to say something about this layout. Hey Jak... I'm trying the layout,, and there just one thing so far I would like to change. F8 and F7... Cancel and pause... Those buttons are too close,, and I had pressed F7 instead of F8 some times. I think F8 could be there,, and I would be nice if you move pause to F10 or some other F# Hope you understand my idea. Thanks
I personally think that F8 is too far already, but it's all opinion. If you want to change it that way, then go right ahead.
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On November 05 2012 09:10 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 09:00 Kwodahn wrote:Sorry about my English,, but I want to say something about this layout. Hey Jak... I'm trying the layout,, and there just one thing so far I would like to change. F8 and F7... Cancel and pause... Those buttons are too close,, and I had pressed F7 instead of F8 some times. I think F8 could be there,, and I would be nice if you move pause to F10 or some other F# Hope you understand my idea. Thanks I personally think that F8 is too far already, but it's all opinion. If you want to change it that way, then go right ahead.
I mean,, those two buttons are too close each other,, so if I want to cancel a building (F8),, sometimes I press the wrong button and I pause the game (F7) :S
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On November 06 2012 02:10 Kwodahn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 09:10 Antylamon wrote:On November 05 2012 09:00 Kwodahn wrote:Sorry about my English,, but I want to say something about this layout. Hey Jak... I'm trying the layout,, and there just one thing so far I would like to change. F8 and F7... Cancel and pause... Those buttons are too close,, and I had pressed F7 instead of F8 some times. I think F8 could be there,, and I would be nice if you move pause to F10 or some other F# Hope you understand my idea. Thanks I personally think that F8 is too far already, but it's all opinion. If you want to change it that way, then go right ahead. I mean,, those two buttons are too close each other,, so if I want to cancel a building (F8),, sometimes I press the wrong button and I pause the game (F7) :S
There is a tradeoff between making pause easy to press (F7) and making it too easy to press it by mistake. If you want to switch it over to F9, please, go ahead and make the change!
If it's an issue that a lot of people agree on, then I'm sure Jak'll update the official hotkey layout.
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I second moving 'pause.' I've already moved it in my own layout. I've never had to pause at a split second's notice, really.
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On November 06 2012 03:46 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:10 Kwodahn wrote:On November 05 2012 09:10 Antylamon wrote:On November 05 2012 09:00 Kwodahn wrote:Sorry about my English,, but I want to say something about this layout. Hey Jak... I'm trying the layout,, and there just one thing so far I would like to change. F8 and F7... Cancel and pause... Those buttons are too close,, and I had pressed F7 instead of F8 some times. I think F8 could be there,, and I would be nice if you move pause to F10 or some other F# Hope you understand my idea. Thanks I personally think that F8 is too far already, but it's all opinion. If you want to change it that way, then go right ahead. I mean,, those two buttons are too close each other,, so if I want to cancel a building (F8),, sometimes I press the wrong button and I pause the game (F7) :S There is a tradeoff between making pause easy to press (F7) and making it too easy to press it by mistake. If you want to switch it over to F9, please, go ahead and make the change! If it's an issue that a lot of people agree on, then I'm sure Jak'll update the official hotkey layout.
I'm definitely considering it for the next patch. Really, I would like it to be closer than it is now. I've played about 400 games on 0.5 now and I still want cancel to be closer. I'm not sure if there is a move we can make where we gain more efficiency than we lose, but I'm currently looking at our options.
Thanks for the feedback (also, look for TheCore in the next edition of GLHF Magazine!)
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One more thing I noticed: while morphing an overlord to overseer... The cancel hotkey still on Escape [esc] 
You should check morph (overlord to overseer),, (zergling to baneling),, (corruptor to BL)...
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On November 06 2012 06:53 Kwodahn wrote:One more thing I noticed: while morphing an overlord to overseer... The cancel hotkey still on Escape [esc] You should check morph (overlord to overseer),, (zergling to baneling),, (corruptor to BL)...
Whaaat...?!?
That should not be the case, I don't even know how to make those different from the universal cancel command...
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On November 06 2012 07:56 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 06:53 Kwodahn wrote:One more thing I noticed: while morphing an overlord to overseer... The cancel hotkey still on Escape [esc] You should check morph (overlord to overseer),, (zergling to baneling),, (corruptor to BL)... Whaaat...?!? That should not be the case, I don't even know how to make those different from the universal cancel command...
All of the cancel commands are fine.
Cancel=F8
CancelCocoon=F8
CancelMutateMorph=F8
CancelUpgradeMorph=F8
Additionally, I just tested it in a unit test map, and changing the universal cancel command does indeed change the others. It could be a bug in the program used to create the other layouts, although the odds are slim considering how many times it has been used without any errors. I doubt that Kwodahn has a foreign keyboard because he's from Costa Rica.
Kwodahn, could you please specify which version of TheCore you are using? (PRM, TLMM, etc.)
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So I've FINALLY gotten comfortable with TheCore. Just for kicks and giggles, I went back to the standard layout and played a few games and it really made me notice how efficient TheCore is. Standard layout has you doing all sorts of finger gymnastics even to just manage control groups. I didn't notice the benefit TheCore was giving me when I was learning it because the frustration of learning it masked such benefits. However, switching to standard and comparing makes it really clear.
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On November 06 2012 09:17 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 07:56 JaKaTaK wrote:On November 06 2012 06:53 Kwodahn wrote:One more thing I noticed: while morphing an overlord to overseer... The cancel hotkey still on Escape [esc] You should check morph (overlord to overseer),, (zergling to baneling),, (corruptor to BL)... Whaaat...?!? That should not be the case, I don't even know how to make those different from the universal cancel command... All of the cancel commands are fine. Additionally, I just tested it in a unit test map, and changing the universal cancel command does indeed change the others. It could be a bug in the program used to create the other layouts, although the odds are slim considering how many times it has been used without any errors. I doubt that Kwodahn has a foreign keyboard because he's from Costa Rica. Kwodahn, could you please specify which version of TheCore you are using? (PRM, TLMM, etc.)
Ok,, I'm using TheCore ZRM 0.5_Latin,, I used the software made by Pathency to convert the layout...
Edit:
Look at this images:
In HotS
http://i.imgur.com/r6BzR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mQU4e.jpg
In WoL
http://i.imgur.com/kZQxd.png
http://i.imgur.com/sFhm0.jpg
I'm using the same hotkey layout in both games... So I checked in battle.net for known issues in HotS
And I found this:
Hotkeys
• There are a variety of issues that occur when binding grid layout hotkeys to non-standard keyboards.
We are currently investigating the cause of this issue and are working towards a solution.
• There are hotkey options for "AI Communication" even though the functionality they reference is not present.
This is a purely cosmetic issue and should have no impact on game play. We are working towards a solution.
Is that the reason??
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On November 06 2012 10:12 Kwodahn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:17 Antylamon wrote:On November 06 2012 07:56 JaKaTaK wrote:On November 06 2012 06:53 Kwodahn wrote:One more thing I noticed: while morphing an overlord to overseer... The cancel hotkey still on Escape [esc] You should check morph (overlord to overseer),, (zergling to baneling),, (corruptor to BL)... Whaaat...?!? That should not be the case, I don't even know how to make those different from the universal cancel command... All of the cancel commands are fine. Cancel=F8
CancelCocoon=F8
CancelMutateMorph=F8
CancelUpgradeMorph=F8 Additionally, I just tested it in a unit test map, and changing the universal cancel command does indeed change the others. It could be a bug in the program used to create the other layouts, although the odds are slim considering how many times it has been used without any errors. I doubt that Kwodahn has a foreign keyboard because he's from Costa Rica. Kwodahn, could you please specify which version of TheCore you are using? (PRM, TLMM, etc.) Ok,, I'm using TheCore ZRM 0.5_Latin,, I used the software made by Pathency I think... So it as to be a bug in the software,, as you said.
Ahhh, that explains it.
I was referring to the program written by JDub, which generates the rest of the English layouts from the lefty middle-sized layouts. Last I remember, the program for generating non-English keyboard layouts was written by Phatency, so I think you are correct in that.
Either way, you shouldn't have too many problems. Just refer to the data document if a command seems to be out of place. I hope it isn't asking for too much to refer to an English keyboard if something is a bit wacky.
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On November 06 2012 10:12 Kwodahn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 09:17 Antylamon wrote:On November 06 2012 07:56 JaKaTaK wrote:On November 06 2012 06:53 Kwodahn wrote:One more thing I noticed: while morphing an overlord to overseer... The cancel hotkey still on Escape [esc] You should check morph (overlord to overseer),, (zergling to baneling),, (corruptor to BL)... Whaaat...?!? That should not be the case, I don't even know how to make those different from the universal cancel command... All of the cancel commands are fine. Cancel=F8
CancelCocoon=F8
CancelMutateMorph=F8
CancelUpgradeMorph=F8 Additionally, I just tested it in a unit test map, and changing the universal cancel command does indeed change the others. It could be a bug in the program used to create the other layouts, although the odds are slim considering how many times it has been used without any errors. I doubt that Kwodahn has a foreign keyboard because he's from Costa Rica. Kwodahn, could you please specify which version of TheCore you are using? (PRM, TLMM, etc.) Ok,, I'm using TheCore ZRM 0.5_Latin,, I used the software made by Pathency to convert the layout... Edit: Look at this images: In HotShttp://i.imgur.com/r6BzR.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/mQU4e.jpgIn WoLhttp://i.imgur.com/kZQxd.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/sFhm0.jpgI'm using the same hotkey layout in both games... So I checked in battle.net for known issues in HotS And I found this: Hotkeys • There are a variety of issues that occur when binding grid layout hotkeys to non-standard keyboards. We are currently investigating the cause of this issue and are working towards a solution. • There are hotkey options for "AI Communication" even though the functionality they reference is not present. This is a purely cosmetic issue and should have no impact on game play. We are working towards a solution. Is that the reason??
Hm... this is odd. I'll try to recreate the error and see what comes up.
On the bugs, I'm almost sure they have no impact. TheCore is not a grid-based layout, and the latter, as Blizz said, is a purely cosmetic issue.
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So should I need to report that bug??
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I just converted ZRM to Latin, and the results don't look good.
Cancel=F8
CancelCocoon=F8
CancelMutateMorph=F8
CancelUpgradeMorph=F8
It's exactly the same as it should be, so it is possible that it is a HotS bug. However, this should be tested on multiple HotS accounts before reporting it. I don't have one, so I can't help there.
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EPT
