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On July 11 2012 20:07 Banj0 wrote:
finger rolling/dexterity: I find it very uncomfortable to roll/tap my fingers from index to pinky, but pinky to index is very natural. Does this change? For example, making drones are now w-e-g, but g-e-w rolls much nicer. I am definately index/middlefinger dominated, just wondering if that changes?
Everyone finds the Core uncomfortable when the first switch. To be frank, if you don't find it uncomfortable then that means you probably have been using your keyboard incorrectly this whole time. What I mean is, you are switching up your home keys and what side of the keyboard your hand rests on... IT SHOULD be uncomfortable until you play about 20-30 games (whether vs AI or on Ladder).
To answer your question: YES it "changes" (gets better). I think the hardest part is using your pinky and thumb more often. It will feel horrible at first because what you are doing is forgetting the old muscle memory and learning the new. But it indeed gets much better. My APM is way higher and my micro/macro is amazing when I compare games before the switch to games after the switch. FYI i have about 100 games on the core and there are still button presses which i struggle with - and need to practice.
On July 12 2012 00:00 Tritone wrote:
Another question. Looking at the suggest control groups for Zerg, I see "Queens/all ups". What does "all ups" mean? All the upgrade facilities? So you just tab between the buildings I assume?
You are exactly right. Since queens are highest priority you can use that control group to inject but also to upgrade without looking at your base. Hit the ( / ) key to tab through to next subgroup. Normally i have to tab once to get to spawning pool, twice to get to roach warren, and three times to get to EVO chambers. Obviously it depends on what buildings you have in the control group. I use the mouse version of the layout and have bound period to previous subgroup in case i tab one too many.
Keep in mind, the Queens/all ups key is meant for INJECTING queens only. Do not add your creep/defensive queens to this control group (use a different control group)
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So I'm using ZRMM, as far as I understand its SHIFT+P / SHIFT+O / SHIFT+I / SHIFT+J to set base cameras?
And recall them is CTRL + SHIFT + KEY ?
Am I supposed to press both CTRL + SHIFT with my thumb and press a key to get to a base?
It feels very inefficient and hard to do in the game, is there any other method for camera locations?
Besides the camera keys I love the hotkey setup so far!
Another question, I'm using a nordic/swedish keyboard. Should I change anything because of that?
It feels like I could move everything one key to the right but I might be wrong.
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On July 12 2012 01:52 selander wrote:
So I'm using ZRMM, as far as I understand its SHIFT+P / SHIFT+O / SHIFT+I / SHIFT+J to set base cameras?
And recall them is CTRL + SHIFT + KEY ?
Am I supposed to press both CTRL + SHIFT with my thumb and press a key to get to a base?
ALT + Key will set the base cameras. ALT is also bound to center on selection (so your base is always in the middle of the screen)
It feels very inefficient and hard to do in the game, is there any other method for camera locations?
It may feel that way because you haven't even given yourself a chance to practice it. There are videos where Jak goes through how to set and use base cameras if you still have trouble.
Keep in mind there are also free cameras which are set with Shift + Key and recalled by simply pressing that Key.
Another question, I'm using a nordic/swedish keyboard. Should I change anything because of that?
It feels like I could move everything one key to the right but I might be wrong.
There should be a special hotkey file which has been translated for international keyboards. Look towards the end of the OP.
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First off, thanks for all the work put into this.
Gonna try this out now, ZRM, and I have a couple of questions.
1. Why is uproot hotkey different for spore and spine? I've now bound them to "I" with "O" as secondary on both, will see what feels most comfy.
2. What makes the ";" so good for infestors? Right now I've rebound that hotkey to the extra one right next to Enter that is found on nordic keyboards. most hotkeys on the lowest row of the keyboard feels pretty awkward for me atm.
3. Should i hit "M" with the pinky or the ring finger?
Will probably come back with more 
edit 1:
4. I've gone ahead and bound spawn creep tumor on creep tumors to "I" as secondary, because my brain hurts when the hotkeys are different for (practically) identical actions, much like with the spore/spine uproot/root.
edit2:
5. Explode baneling is really really far away. I for one have never used Enable/Disable auto target buildings and I can't remember the last time i mis-detonated banelings on buildings. Is this ever used? If i read the data document correctly it isnt, but detonate is somewhat used (blow up landmines under unsuspecting marines, blowing up mineral lanes and when close to lots of lings but not just quite able to actually touch em).
I'm switching detonate to "I", and the toggles to something harder to reach.
edit3: I understand now why detonate isn't on I or O, because that would lead to lots of accidental blowups when attempting to morhp banes (I) or conflicts with the unburrow key (O). G is just too far away though  I'm thinking N or U
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I'm currently trying out ZRM and have a few questions about the layout.
According to the datasheet, Hatches are bound to P and Queens/All ups are bound to O. I had some trouble following this since O is the hotkey for the queen to inject. Am I missing something? Which hotkey should I be using for queens?
Which cameras are bound to which bases? Is this left up to me, or is there a particular order that they should be bound such as P to main, O to natural, I to 3rd, J to 4th? Which camera should I be using for a macro hatch?
Thank you for the layout, and keep up the awesome work!
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On July 12 2012 05:31 thieveshonor wrote:
I'm currently trying out ZRM and have a few questions about the layout.
According to the datasheet, Hatches are bound to P and Queens/All ups are bound to O. I had some trouble following this since O is the hotkey for the queen to inject. Am I missing something? Which hotkey should I be using for queens?
Which cameras are bound to which bases? Is this left up to me, or is there a particular order that they should be bound such as P to main, O to natural, I to 3rd, J to 4th? Which camera should I be using for a macro hatch?
Thank you for the layout, and keep up the awesome work!
Suggested hotkey for queens is the one to the right of "P".
Cameras I'm less certain about:
I'm trying out "J" for main, "I" for natural -> "O" -> "P" -> the button below "P", I think it's intended this way and it results in a nice finger roll when injecting.
As for the macro hatch - havn't figured it out yet.
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On July 12 2012 00:01 maLaK1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 23:44 Antylamon wrote:On July 11 2012 23:36 maLaK1 wrote:
in my 3.2 ZRM version the base camera key is unbound, is that intentional or a mistake?
it was ALT before, You mean center on current selection or base camera? Because it was center on current selection last I checked. Might be wrong. i meant center on current selection
Do you really have a problem with center on current selection? Base Camera being unbound was a mistake and was fixed, but it doesn't fix your Alt (or rather AltGr if you're using the german layout?). If you are using the german layout, try changing "center on current" to Alt, it's Alt+Control in the german version, because that's what AltGr is. AltGr is a problematic button - it seems to work differently on some keyboards. Do your AltGr+POIJ base camera keys work?
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There was an error in ZRM. The Base Camera was supposed to be bound to "Y" but it was unbound. This has been fixed and the file has been uploaded with the corrected hotkey.
@Tritone
If you want to play Random long term, stick with random. Zerg specific is pretty significantly different from the random layouts.
@Nurfie
1. nice solution. its much more efficient to have a homekey for root, uproot, and spread creep, than a more difficult to press key. We almost always favor efficiency over making the layout more intuitive. In time, you will just get used to pressing the correct buttons.
2. key combinations. To unburrow and cast fungal the combination is ";OI" a 3 finger combination for a 3 command combination. repeating fingers is almost always slower. likewise selecting the infestor CG and casting any of the 3 spells is a 2 finger combo for a 2 command combo. Very fast and efficient.
3.
nice suggestion on the baneling, i will definitely think it over. Thanks for your very specific and helpful feedback man. I'm looking forward to more :D
@thieveshonor
You are probably looking at the wrong sheet on the data document. make sure its the one with ZRM at the top.
We're starting to wind down on changes and getting into a longer testing period (hopefully) If you are an active tester, please participate in the polls below so we can get a good idea of who is testing.
Poll: Do you play with TheCore?Yes, and I am currently in the Diamond League (9) 21% Yes, and I am currently in the Gold League (9) 21% Yes, and I am currently in the Silver League (7) 17% Yes, and I am currently in the Platinum League (5) 12% Yes, and I am currently in the Bronze League (5) 12% Yes, and I am currently in the Master League (4) 10% Yes, and I am currently in the Grandmaster League (3) 7% 42 total votes Your vote: Do you play with TheCore? (Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Grandmaster League
(Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Master League
(Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Diamond League
(Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Platinum League
(Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Gold League
(Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Silver League
(Vote): Yes, and I am currently in the Bronze League
Poll: Do you really play with TheCore?Yes, I play Zerg. (18) 46% Yes, I play Protoss. (10) 26% Yes, I play Terran. (9) 23% Yes, I play Random. (2) 5% 39 total votes Your vote: Do you really play with TheCore? (Vote): Yes, I play Protoss.
(Vote): Yes, I play Terran.
(Vote): Yes, I play Zerg.
(Vote): Yes, I play Random.
Poll: Are you sure you play with TheCore?Yes, I do not use the 4th and 5th mouse buttons. (22) 59% Yes, I use the 4th and 5th mouse buttons. (15) 41% 37 total votes Your vote: Are you sure you play with TheCore? (Vote): Yes, I use the 4th and 5th mouse buttons.
(Vote): Yes, I do not use the 4th and 5th mouse buttons.
Poll: You play with... TheCore?Yes, I move the mouse with my right hand. (34) 92% Yes, I move the mouse with my left hand. (3) 8% 37 total votes Your vote: You play with... TheCore? (Vote): Yes, I move the mouse with my right hand.
(Vote): Yes, I move the mouse with my left hand.
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I started using TheCore a couple of days ago - at first it was a complete Mind Fudge. To help I played a bit of Diablo 3 (as it's far simplier than SC2) using TheCore style hand positioning of JIOP" for the 4 skills, F8 for clear screen and "0-" for skills and inventory and P for potions. Doing this got me use to having my hands on the other side of the keyboard and comfortable with positioning my hands back in the right place.
I just came back into sc2 pumped out 5 games against the AI and was FAR more comfortable with things like location hotkeys, queen injects etc. I can see that in another 20 games or so I should be atleast as efficient as I was before.
Thanks!
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FAKE AND GAY
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 12 2012 10:18 XChoke wrote:
I started using TheCore a couple of days ago - at first it was a complete Mind Fudge. To help I played a bit of Diablo 3 (as it's far simplier than SC2) using TheCore style hand positioning of JIOP" for the 4 skills, F8 for clear screen and "0-" for skills and inventory and P for potions. Doing this got me use to having my hands on the other side of the keyboard and comfortable with positioning my hands back in the right place.
I just came back into sc2 pumped out 5 games against the AI and was FAR more comfortable with things like location hotkeys, queen injects etc. I can see that in another 20 games or so I should be atleast as efficient as I was before.
Thanks!
Wow, that's a really cool idea. Make sure you participate in the poll and continue to give your feedbacks! :D
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On July 12 2012 01:52 selander wrote:
So I'm using ZRMM, as far as I understand its SHIFT+P / SHIFT+O / SHIFT+I / SHIFT+J to set base cameras?
And recall them is CTRL + SHIFT + KEY ?
Am I supposed to press both CTRL + SHIFT with my thumb and press a key to get to a base?
It feels very inefficient and hard to do in the game, is there any other method for camera locations?
Besides the camera keys I love the hotkey setup so far!
Another question, I'm using a nordic/swedish keyboard. Should I change anything because of that?
It feels like I could move everything one key to the right but I might be wrong.
In the original theCore alt + key sets base camera, while ctrl + shift + key recalls them.
What I do, however, is set with alt and then recall with ctrl + key. This overlaps with my production control groups, so I changed the "create control group" for O and P to ctrl + shift + key. You rarely ever need that command anyway, as you can create just as well with shift.
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I´d love to see a game from each race with a normal screenfew with a view of the Keyboard in one Corner. I can´t imagine how you can actually use your Thumb regularly. The thumb is the slowest of all fingers (at least for me)
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Just had an idea:
Since the base keys are also cameras and some of the base keys are commands, why not change set camera from alt+j and alt+i to ctrl+j and ctrl+i? (RRM, TRM, PRM)
For ZRM, ctrl+o could be used as well.
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On July 12 2012 18:36 Antylamon wrote:
Just had an idea:
Since the base keys are also cameras and some of the base keys are commands, why not change set camera from alt+j and alt+i to ctrl+j and ctrl+i? (RRM, TRM, PRM)
For ZRM, ctrl+o could be used as well.
That would create inconsistency for setting the third fourth and fifth base cameras.
Also you might accidentally reset the base camera upon trying to recall (although that's only if you make an error)
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Really worth changing the custom hotkeys to a new one?
I've been since I started to starcraft with settings and now I find it quite difficult to switch to theCore, it pays to be enough time to get used again?
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I have been away for a while and not kept up to date. I wonder, why was terran oc and macro control groups flipped? And why is marine/tank now on J instead of I?
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Hi, Mid master toss used to darkgrid tryin to do this nex layout. It looks very "optimized" but im still sceptic with the thumb placement.
Jakatak, do you have a picture of the layout with detailed hotkeys, ability etc ? Thanks for the great job btw ;-)
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On July 13 2012 00:17 Serge89 wrote:
Hi, Mid master toss used to darkgrid tryin to do this nex layout. It looks very "optimized" but im still sceptic with the thumb placement.
Jakatak, do you have a picture of the layout with detailed hotkeys, ability etc ? Thanks for the great job btw ;-)
They are in the OP, look for a pictures spoiler towards the end.
PRM, PLM means protoss, right/left handed, medium size
PRMM, PLMM is same as above but also uses mouse buttons 4 and 5
Edit: also check the data document for suggested control groups. You can find that in the FAQ at the very end of the OP. Make sure you are on the protoss tab and not the random tab of the Google document
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On July 12 2012 07:34 JaKaTaK wrote:... @Nurfie 1. nice solution. its much more efficient to have a homekey for root, uproot, and spread creep, than a more difficult to press key. We almost always favor efficiency over making the layout more intuitive. In time, you will just get used to pressing the correct buttons. 2. key combinations. To unburrow and cast fungal the combination is " ;OI" a 3 finger combination for a 3 command combination. repeating fingers is almost always slower. likewise selecting the infestor CG and casting any of the 3 spells is a 2 finger combo for a 2 command combo. Very fast and efficient. 3. nice suggestion on the baneling, i will definitely think it over. Thanks for your very specific and helpful feedback man. I'm looking forward to more :D
1. Spore has "I" for uproot & root, Spine has "O" for uproot & root (iirc). Is there any reason for them not being the same?
In the data document I only find "Uproot" and "Root" (not spore/spine specific) and theyre "bound" to "O".
2. I understand whats happening now, the ";" key is placed completely different on the nordic keyboard layout:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/KB_US-International.svg/800px-KB_US-International.svg.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/KB_Sweden.svg/800px-KB_Sweden.svg.png
Funnily enough I wound up using "Ö" for my infestors when messing around, and it's the equivalent of ";". I guess we agree on that one then :D
I'll start playing with it fo realz next week. Barely played SC2 at all for the past 12 weeks and this feels like a good way to start it off again, hopefully it will help me a ton to take the step up to top masters.
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EPT
