EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 107
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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maLaK1
Germany124 Posts
On December 22 2012 04:37 JaKaTaK wrote: hrrrrmmmm... I misunderstood your first comment then. I'll fix it :D so if I wanted to fix it on my version meanwhile the correct keys are Probe = O Mothership = I and Chrono = J? | ||
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milehighost
3 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On December 22 2012 00:22 JaKaTaK wrote: infinity seven's Sanddbox took a couple of weeks to get back to his old APM, and a little longer to start reaping the benefits. He's using the most updated version and really likes it. iEchoic uses a heavily modified version of TheCore because he wasn't ready for such a drastic change. (although I really think he should complete the transition by updating to the latest version). He likes TheCore concepts and logic a lot. I think they both read the thread, so if you two have any amendments or additions to what I said, feel free :D I've kept quiet because I wanted to give myself time to adjust before posting anything or giving feedback. I'll give feedback from my experience so far (even though I've only used the official layout sparingly). I saw this thread, and was intrigued by using ctrl/shift with my left thumb. I looked around a bit and saw a few things that I wanted to change about TheCore. Namely, those things are that I didn't want to use layered cameras (I preferred to have dedicated camera keys), and I also wanted to optimize so that keys I hit the most often are hit with my index, middle, ring, pinky finger (in that order). I do as I do, and just change all my hotkeys manually to whatever I think makes sense, using these principles. After many modifications, and weeks of practice, I was fluid with my new layout. My mechanical skills were definitely better than they were before the change. At this point, I loaded up the actual TheCore and tried it for a while (the first time I've done that). I've come to the following conclusions: - I was wrong about layered camera hotkeys being inefficient. I've since switched to layered hotkeys as TheCore does, and like them much more. - I'm not sure that popping off the key to the left of control is necessary. I've been using it for weeks and never had an issue with it being in the way, and it's one of my most accessible keys. I currently have it set to Tab, which works well because tab is virtually always followed with an ability key, and it's also something you never need to use alongside ctrl. - I am still unconvinced that the pinky is the most dexterous/strongest after training. Jak argues that the pinky is connected to the strongest muscle in your hand, there are studies that show that it's the strongest and most independent finger, and linked me to a video of Jojo Mayer demonstrating the importance of the pinky. I don't disagree with the anatomical facts, but anatomical facts can only be used to explain observations in the real world, and I've yet to see those results (drumming is quite a different application). If I see a demonstration where somebody is able to do any sort of key sequence with their pinky (such as pressing the keys j-i-o-k in sequence as fast as possible, or someone playing a trumpet with their pinky instead of their index finger) faster than they can with their index, I'll be convinced. Until then, I can't imagine it being the case due to the fact that trained pianists, guitarists, wind players, etc. recognize the pinky as the least-dexterous - and the keyboard is just another instrument. - Swapping control and shift as TheCore does is a good decision. I didn't make that change, and am holding off on it because it's a big change to adapt to and I don't want to mess up my muscle memory for other games where this modification doesn't work as well. - Terran (maybe others as well) hotkeys could potentially be more condensed in TheCore. I'm not sure that it's necessary to have build on the - and = keys, and am a little irked by this. I cannot give a more targeted review of TheCore hotkey layout because I don't have enough experience with the exact layout, but I do have much experience with the principles behind it, and think that it's a solid layout. TheCore is far superior to the standard layout if you're willing to take the time to adjust. I spent time creating my own partially for fun and to experiment, but this isn't really necessary, and I can't say if I came out with a superior result or not. From what I can tell, the core is a well-reasoned layout that is worthwhile to try out. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Probe O Chrono I Mothership K (The Nexus now uses J for attack) @milehighost I don't know what trainer you are talking about, can you elaborate? @iEchoic Thanks for the detailed review! There are a couple of things I am curious about. The pinky doesn't press jiok in TheCore, so I'm a little confused by what you mean. Also, the build keys are placed on the index finger (as is hallucination) because they will always be followed by abilities. We tried having them on the ability side of the keyboard at first but you decrease the number of comfortable and fast combinations to build with. What other games does swaping the functions of Ctrl and Shift for CGs and cameras not work with? Thanks again :D | ||
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milehighost
3 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=357033 | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
From the OP | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
To elaborate, when you download the hotkey trainer program, there is file inside called config.ini, with a line that is: race=zerg You can change that line to be race=terran or race=protoss to practice hotkeys for the other races. Edit: There's a bunch of other configuration stuff in that file that you can play with, as well, to practice certain keys and not others. | ||
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arie3000
153 Posts
On December 21 2012 00:23 JaKaTaK wrote: @arie3000 Minimap injects and Layered Camera Injects are the two best inject methods in my opinion. I think that Layered injects are easier and faster to learn, but maybe not necessarily faster than minimap inject. Minimap inject requires a shit ton of mouse accuracy to rival the speed of the Layered Inject, so if you have it, and you like that style, more power to you, but if you don't then the Layered Inject is the way to go IMO. Concerning the Layered CG, it will be smooth with the minimap inject the way you described it as well and will be more efficient that way (as we save space by layering that control group without slowing the inject in any way.) Updated Quick Start Guide 2 Video (Layered Injects, Cameras, and CG) Cheers! Even though I'm not so quick, I like minimap injects - I tried the 'base camera injects', but they're very chaotic and require a lot of attention when queens or hatches have been killed, because the order of cycling then changes into some random crap-o-la, and chaotic in the late game with not all hatches having queens. I agree that you need some accuracy, but with a large screen it's alright. One thing that makes minimap injects 'comforting' is that it doesn't disturb the screen you're looking at, so you can do it while you're scouting. | ||
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milehighost
3 Posts
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sanddbox_sc2
United States173 Posts
Switching to TheCore: If you play the game anywhere near a high level switching is going to be very painful for awhile - the first day you'll have trouble with very basic macro, but within a few days you'll find yourself learning the system and finding the hotkeys more natural. Completely learning the hotkey setup takes a lot longer than getting to a level of proficiency; like learning any skill, you'll run into the law of diminishing returns relatively quickly. My experience switching was made pretty painful because of some clan wars/showmatches I had to play in, so make sure you're not playing anything important within 3-4 weeks of switching (a month is really the time it takes to be able to tangibly feel the benefits, even though you'll be playing pretty well within a week). The best way to switch is to dive right in, and now that TheCore is a lot more fleshed out you don't have to worry about huge, sweeping updates to the system. The hotkey trainers help, although no matter what you'll have to just play a lot of games. Once you're reasonably proficient with the setup, you'll be able to guess what the hotkey is for an upgrade without having ever seen it before; the hotkey setup is just that well-designed. Obviously it'll be a complete shift in terms of hotkeys, however, so don't expect it to be easy, but it's certainly worth it in the end. Pros/Cons: TheCore is, to the best of my knowledge, the best and most intelligently designed hotkey setup out there, and although the learning curve is steep it's worth it in the end if you value your mechanics. I actually finally made the switch because of wrist pain (presumably some form of early RSI), and since then pain in my keyboard hand is basically gone; the setup itself is ridiculously more ergonomic than the standard setup. The only real con besides the learning curve is that playing campaign, custom games, other games, etc obviously don't use TheCore, and it can feel weird having to go back to standard hotkeys at times (although, like anything, once you've learned a hotkey setup you'll never forget it). If you're debating switching and plan to be playing Starcraft for more than a month into the future, make the switch - you won't regret it, although your cortisol levels will rise for about the first week or so. I'm now basically using the Standard version of the core, minus a few very minute adjustments (the biggest of which being that I don't use the layered inject method; I just hotkey each queen individually still). TL;DR: gud hotkeys | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Concerning campaign and custom games. We're actually working on getting TheCore all set for the campaign, and maybe some of the more popular custom games.  | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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ooLaLa
Israel3 Posts
!Awesome reviews from iEchoic and Sanddbox ,I'm going to start the transformation into a Core user! :D Goodbye grid :') | ||
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XaliQ
Switzerland1 Post
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Dragnmn
Netherlands52 Posts
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maLaK1
Germany124 Posts
its supposed to be Left Arrow for opening the chat window and sending, but sending does not work, the window stays open and you're stuck in it unable to be issuing other commands/continuing playing ChatAll=Shift+Left ChatAllies=Control+Left ChatCancel=F9,F1 ChatDefault=Left ChatIndividual=Alt+Left ChatRecipient=Control+Shift+Left ChatSend=Left is this correct? | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On December 24 2012 01:51 maLaK1 wrote: Sending chat messages does not work with the RS layouts its supposed to be Left Arrow for opening the chat window and sending, but sending does not work, the window stays open and you're stuck in it unable to be issuing other commands/continuing playing ChatAll=Shift+Left ChatAllies=Control+Left ChatCancel=F9,F1 ChatDefault=Left ChatIndividual=Alt+Left ChatRecipient=Control+Shift+Left ChatSend=Left is this correct? Yes, this is a problem with the RS layouts that we have not come up with a good solution for. The layouts need to use Enter, so we need to move the chat functions somewhere. Do you have any ideas for where to move them? I'll look into getting this fixed ASAP. | ||
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Kiaph
112 Posts
TRM 0.5.1 When i switch over to it like 50 things get dehotkeyed and I have no idea what to do most of them are just campaign hotkeys so i dont mind spamming default but a few or actual hot keys for in game as well ingame techlab upgrades hope you can look into this. | ||
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