[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 104

Dan.PhoeNIX

Australia3 Posts

December 10 2012 10:35 GMT

#2061

Started using TheCore a few days ago. While the new hotkey setting was somewhat baffling, I tried my best. In most games I was struggling with the timings of my build while my fingers try to remember which key does what. I guess that's why they call it practice, while I'm neither satisfied or unsatisfied I think I will continue with the default keybinds on ladder games and try to practice TheCore keys in my spare time.

TheCore actually makes me incorporate layered cameras into my playstyle as opposed to using the default. For now, in the first 3-4 days of using TheCore I feel actually like a lowly bronze player trying to get everything done right. I hope to use TheCore as well as I can with the default keys, someday.

APM without TheCore: 100-110 (+10-20) for Zerg
APM with TheCore (first three days): 70-90
Projected APM with TheCore: 130-150

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 10 2012 15:49 GMT

#2062

Yeap, that's how it goes. It'll be faster if you commit 100%. It might be near impossible to learn TheCore the way you're doing it because your brain has to go back and forth between actions that are supposed to be reflexive. The choice, however, is always yours.

Peculator

Netherlands7 Posts

December 10 2012 17:14 GMT

#2063

I just started playing Starcraft two weeks ago and I'm learning with the core from the start. I know from previous gaming (WoW) how important a custom keyboard layout is for improving speed. Only thing that I find difficult is setting screen locations at the start off the game for the expansions and removing stuff from the queens control group when I accidentaly bind a drone or hatch to it. Thank you very much for this project!

Now I only have to learn how to actually play this game, hope the staircase custom map can come to EU server soon.

Zaxaxax

United States2 Posts

December 11 2012 12:48 GMT

#2064

Hello! I just created a Team Liquid account to ask this question.

I want to start using The Core, but on the left side of my keyboard, is this possible?

The Reason for playing on the left side of the keyboard is that I play on a laptop.
If I used the standard version I would feel slightly to the right of my screen at all times. It would also make my hands very close together which is uncomfortable for me.

(Edit: I am Right Handed)

Mahtasooma

Germany475 Posts

December 11 2012 13:03 GMT

#2065

On December 11 2012 21:48 Zaxaxax wrote:
Hello! I just created a Team Liquid account to ask this question.

I want to start using The Core, but on the left side of my keyboard, is this possible?

The Reason for playing on the left side of the keyboard is that I play on a laptop.
If I used the standard version I would feel slightly to the right of my screen at all times. It would also make my hands very close together which is uncomfortable for me.

(Edit: I am Right Handed)

One of the key aspects is that things like Control and Shift keys are very easily reachable (i.e. with your thumb).

I also play on a laptop occasionally, but I bring my keyboard. Which kinda neglects some of the advantages of a laptop, agreed, but then again, it's mobile.

Zaxaxax

United States2 Posts

December 11 2012 13:59 GMT

#2066

The biggest problem I see is the inconsistancy of keyboards on the right side.

For example:
My Right CTRL is offset to the left because of the arrow keys, it rests directly under /
My F12 is offset to the left because of Print screen, Pause, and Delete. It rests directly over =

The keyboard layout shown in the visual aides would be ideal for The Core, but between my Desktop, my Laptop and my girlfriend's Mac Laptop. None match the visual aides.
The Left side however, is almost always the same, with a solid row from Esc down to Ctrl on all 3 of the computers I have.

Possible solutions I see are:
1. Deal with my modifiers on my pinky and try to recreate The Core on the left side.
2. Rebind my modifiers to something easy to reach with my thumb. Turn CTRL -> Space possibly?

I'm not sure if #2 is even possible.
Any thoughts on what would be easier to do?

dakka

8 Posts

December 11 2012 14:35 GMT

#2067

Well you can forget about using this layout on a laptop without external display/second keyboard, because you need to tilt the keyboard quite a bit which would in turn mean your monitor is very crooked.

I would suggest you take a much simpler route for ergonomics where you unbind LCtrl, and use LShift for that (group creation) and bind CapsLock to the original LShift function (add to group). Then change the actions and spell buttons to a more grid-like setup around WASD.

Most complaints from the original left side setup comes from using LCtrl + 1-6 which puts your wrist at strain. LShift so much easier, and other things like camera layers you can do yourself on the left side around WASD.

You can create more complex hotkey setups using AHK (Auto Hotkey) a program you can download for free and write your own scripts. This way you can use any key as a modifier for camera layers or groups, so for example you can use "v + space + #" to create groups instead of "RShift + RCtrl + #". You can very effectively duplicate thecore on the left side with this if you wanted.

http://www.autohotkey.com/

Hancho

Germany89 Posts

December 11 2012 14:50 GMT

#2068

On December 09 2012 01:31 JaKaTaK wrote:
It may be time to make a long video, or post, addressing blizzard or something. There are so many built-in inefficiencies in this game.

Do you have a list?
I would like to see :-)

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 11 2012 15:48 GMT

#2069

On December 11 2012 23:50 Hancho wrote:

Show nested quote +

Do you have a list?
I would like to see :-)

Just a list in my head as of right now. But i'll get them all out there in written form at some point.

With regards to playing with a laptop. TheCore is designed as a competitive, tournament ready, hotkey layout. It is meant to be played on a separate keyboard of the most common variety without any use of auto hotkeys or sharpkeys that some tournaments may consider against their rules. For a more casual layout, I would take a look at Chameleon or Darkgrid. Both have the layered cameras that TheCore has as well as a very compact non-reaching layout, but do not have the advantages of thumb utilization and combination that TheCore does. They are both leagues ahead of standard and grid and will likely be plenty efficient for your purposes. (The Dutch progamer PoYo uses Chameleon).

In other news, I won't be able to get 0.5.1 out today because HotS is down. Hopefully I can continue working on this update tomorrow.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 13 2012 18:10 GMT

#2070

TheCore is fully repaired and updated for the latest HotS Patch!!!

Draikin

7 Posts

December 15 2012 02:31 GMT

#2071

Spent some time figuring out how the layouts work for the hotkey remapper. Here's what I believe is are the mappings for Belgian Azerty:

AltGr=yes

M=Comma
SemiColon=M
Comma=Period
Period=Slash
Slash=Equals
Apostrophe=Grave
BracketOpen=BracketClose
BracketClose=SemiColon
Minus=BracketOpen
Grave=Apostrophe
Equals=Minus
Q=A
W=Z
A=Q
Z=W

Compared to French Azerty the Slash key is assigned to Equals on Belgian Azerty, and because of that I also added the new mapping for the Equals button. I think that should be it, haven't really tested this yet though.

fighter2_40

United States420 Posts

December 15 2012 08:45 GMT

#2072

MAKING SPORES IS THE WORST SHIT EVER i use core medium righty no mouse buttons and every time i try to make mass spore i just burrow all my drones

FlOverlord

Germany19 Posts

December 15 2012 11:21 GMT

#2073

Hey Guys,
I got the latest ZRM commit from github (b3ed13b653dbbf46e5b6a9b39126486346f11af2) and it seems like you changed the assign and add for control group 7 to Control+Shift+G and Control+G respectively.
I just wanted to confirm that this is intentional. And if so whats the reasoning behind it?

Hancho

Germany89 Posts

December 15 2012 14:01 GMT

#2074

What do you think about this?
- make the GitHub repository to the main one and drop SkyDrive
- - the commit history is like a changelog
- change the structure of the GitHub Rep to this:
- - new layer for keyboard layouts
- - clean up the root folder
- - use the SkyDrive folder structure
+ Show Spoiler +

GitHub:
.gitattributes
.gitignore
KeyboardLayouts.ini
MapDefinitions.ini
README.txt
TheCoreRemapper.py
unusedcommands.txt
/SC2Hotkey (link this folder to the OP instead of the SkyDrive)
- /BelgianAzerty
- - /I know my version name
- - - *.SC2Hotkey
- - - [...]
- - /My main race is Protoss
- - - /I mouse with my Left Hand
- - - - - /Large size layout
- - - - - - /No use of side mouse buttons
- - - - - - - TheCore PLL *.SC2Hotkey
- - - - - - /Use of side mouse buttons
- - - - - - - [...]
- - - - - /Medium size layout
- - - - - - [...]
- - - - - /Small size layout
- - - - - - [...]
- - - /I mouse with my Right Hand
- - - - [...]
- - /My main race is Radom
- - - [...]
- - /My main race is Terran
- - - [...]
- - /My main race is Zerg
- - - [...]
- /FrenchAzerty
- - [...]
- /German
- - [...]
- /Latin
- - [...]
- /Nordic
- - [...]
- /US
- - [...]
- /USDvorak
- - [...]
/Images
- [...]

- Use the images from GitHub in the OP because there are always up to date
+ Show Spoiler +

Visual Aides (Pictures)
+ Show Spoiler +

Fingers

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

Control Groups and Abilities

Protoss
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Random
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Zerg
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

JDub

United States976 Posts

December 15 2012 18:11 GMT

#2075

On December 15 2012 17:45 fighter2_40 wrote:
MAKING SPORES IS THE WORST SHIT EVER i use core medium righty no mouse buttons and every time i try to make mass spore i just burrow all my drones

You can select your drones, hit build-spore, hold shift, and then click a bunch of times. If you don't want to wait for the drones to finish their mining command, I would recommend grabbing them, move command them to near where the spores should be, then shift+building the spores. I'm not sure what Jak's thoughts are on it, but if there is some reason why shift+clicking to build the spores doesn't work, I could see TheCore being modified to make sure burrow overlaps with building a regular building that you aren't going to want to mass produce. If Jak doesn't think it's necessary, I'd recommend just modifying it to suit your needs, maybe switching build spore with build roach warren, or something like that.

On December 15 2012 20:21 FlOverlord wrote:
Hey Guys,
I got the latest ZRM commit from github (b3ed13b653dbbf46e5b6a9b39126486346f11af2) and it seems like you changed the assign and add for control group 7 to Control+Shift+G and Control+G respectively.
I just wanted to confirm that this is intentional. And if so whats the reasoning behind it?

I know that it is intentional, but I'm not sure about Jak's reasoning behind it.

On December 15 2012 23:01 Hancho wrote:
What do you think about this?
- make the GitHub repository to the main one and drop SkyDrive
- - the commit history is like a changelog
- change the structure of the GitHub Rep to this:
- - new layer for keyboard layouts
- - clean up the root folder
- - use the SkyDrive folder structure
+ Show Spoiler +

- Use the images from GitHub in the OP because there are always up to date
+ Show Spoiler +

Visual Aides (Pictures)
+ Show Spoiler +

Fingers

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

Control Groups and Abilities

Protoss
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Random
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Zerg
+ Show Spoiler +

Right Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Left Handed
+ Show Spoiler +

No Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

Side Mouse Buttons
+ Show Spoiler +

I like this idea a lot. A couple things about this:

1) To clean up the folder structure, I'll need to edit the script a little bit to output the files in the appropriate sub folders. This won't be a lot of work.

2) I like how GitHub will give us a changelog history automatically. The one thing it won't give us is difference's between versions, as changing the file names doesn't get logged as a change (when we switch "0.5" to "0.5.1" for example), it gets logged as deleting the old file and adding a completely new one. I'm not sure how important this is.

3) We'll need to make sure that people know they have to press the "Raw" button to get to the actual text file to be able to download it.

4) This will also make it easier for people who want to help out to suggest changes to TheCore. I can beef up the readme file and possibly write some instructions about how to use GitHub and make pull requests (as you have already figured out on your own). I think this part is really important, as there was already a guy who went through and added commands for a bunch of the different custom games. He only did it for one particular layout, but if he knew how to use the script (or could just do a pull request for the 4 seed files), then we could get the keys into the official version of the layout, which would be awesome.

FlOverlord

Germany19 Posts

December 15 2012 19:42 GMT

#2076

I really like the Idea of moving to github.
Git has a feature called tags that is very handy for things like versioning.
You just tag a commit as version X and push it with: git push --tags
see http://wptheming.com/2011/04/add-remove-github-tags/ and
Git-Basics-Tagging

Dunno how this shows up in github though.

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 15 2012 20:02 GMT

#2077

Cool stuff. I definitely like the idea to move to github. The one hurdle is the having to press the "Raw" button which can be annoying and is not user friendly IMO. I think having the skydrive and the github is the way to go. That way people who are more tech savvy can benefit from the added features that github has to offer, while the people who just want the file so they can play with the layout can do so easily.

Concerning the switch with the layered CG for Zerg layouts:
Alt+homekey and Alt+one away from home key is significantly slower than ctrl+homkey and Ctrl+shift+homekey. I explained it briefly in TheCore 0.5.1 Patch Notes. I will be releasing a video for the patch notes that will be in the OP that explains all the changes from here on out. I do like being able to back this up with the github changelog though.

@fighter
It helps us help you if you give us the version of your file. Are you using ZRM or RRM?

FlOverlord

Germany19 Posts

December 15 2012 20:16 GMT

#2078

Hey Jak,
in the Video you mention that you changed it to control+shift+j and control+j, however it is on control+shift+G, control+G for ZRM(!).
I guess you missed switching it from left to right handed?!

JaKaTaKSc2

United States2787 Posts

December 15 2012 20:19 GMT

#2079

The remapping script should be doing that. I'll take a look at it.

EDIT: I have no idea why its doing that. I'll ask JDub.

JDub

United States976 Posts

December 15 2012 21:37 GMT

#2080

It's fixed. I had a special handler for the weird extra layered control group that had to be remapped weirdly before. Now it functions like a normal one, so I removed that handling.

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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 104

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