EPTDamn. I can't imagine doing that.
TheJaKaTaK - Page 6
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JackDT
724 Posts
Damn. I can't imagine doing that. | ||
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uberism
Canada271 Posts
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On September 02 2012 14:07 JaKaTaK wrote: Respectfully, I think you are wrong. Made it from bronze to gold with 3 accounts in the course of 1 season, while basically starting from scratch with a completely new hotkey layout and mousing with my non-dominant hand, on purpose, to understand what it feels like to be uncoordinated and using my tools. The highest tech unit I've made so far is a roach/stalker/tank for each race respectively and I've not spent any time looking at or learning builds, or strategies. the show has been steadily growing in popularity and we've got a pretty sweet community going on. I accept the challenge to prove you wrong, but for now, I can only tell you what I think. Umm. Sorry, but why did you quit your job to play Starcraft if this is how you would spend your time? You seem to have a lot of dedication to SC2 but I can't tell what direction you're going in. You have tons of free time but instead of actually getting better to help others improve better as well, you seem to be screwing around with some mantra of macro = getting better as a theme, as shown by getting gold on 3 accounts (why would you even get more than one account), playing with different hotkeys and using your other mouse hand. I can't see how those examples would help anyone be a better gamer. I don't mean to offend but you seem to be wasting a lot of time. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't seen any of your videos but this is the vibe I get from reading your posts. Regardless, good luck with your work. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
The best violinist in the world is not necessarily the best violin teacher. Conversely, the best violin teacher in the world is not the best violinist. This is the same reason that Sc2 coaches for teams do not have to be at the top of their game mechanically. But they do have to understand how to manage their players, and understand the game in its entirety, mechanics and strategy, as well as a host of other things I probably don't know about. There are a few reasons why I switched to my non-dominant hand for mousing. Firstly, I injured my hand by having the mouse sensitivity set too high. Secondly, the biggest issue with very skilled people teaching newcomers to that skill, is that they don't understand the difficulties their student is going through. Maybe because they've never had them, maybe its because its been so long that they don't really remember what it feels like, and therefore have a difficult time helping their student through the struggle. It also does not take the best violinist in the world, or even a professional violinist to teach someone with less understanding of the instrument than them how to play well. I understand that I have to be a master or grandmaster for some people to take me seriously, but 80% of people who play starcraft are in the platinum and below leagues. That's a shit ton of people that for the most part get neglected and told vague and unhelpful things like "just macro more" and "get better mechanics" or "only practice one strat" etc etc Day9 has newbie tuesdays and is a great entertainer/caster/teacher, but a lot of players aren't at the place in their play where they can truely benefit from his show. I believe that this community needs someone dedicated to helping out that 80% of people who play starcraft 2. I believe that the person to that is me. In addition to helping players improve, I create, and help create tool that all players of starcraft II can use. Again, most of the things I do some people will write off as "dumb" or "a waste of time", and with them I respectfully disagree. If I would suggest one of them for you to look at, it would be TheCore. TheCore is a custom hotkey layout for Sc2 that uses data from over 2000 professional game replays to match the most frequently executed commands with the fastest keys to press. Most of what I do is unorthodox, so if you don't approach it with an open mind, it will look "dumb" and "a waste of time" Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know you are very busy, but I had to explain myself fully to respond to your post. | ||
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uberism
Canada271 Posts
Same thing for most coaches, they were at least a professional in their field with a good ability to teach. Look at all the pro sports coaches, those guys knew how to play the game in their prime. People are platinum and below because they play the game for fun and don't care about getting before. If you were actively trying to get better, there is no way you are not at least diamond. | ||
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On September 03 2012 01:45 JaKaTaK wrote: I understand that what I am doing is a bit weird, but gimme a sec. The best violinist in the world is not necessarily the best violin teacher. Conversely, the best violin teacher in the world is not the best violinist. This is the same reason that Sc2 coaches for teams do not have to be at the top of their game mechanically. But they do have to understand how to manage their players, and understand the game in its entirety, mechanics and strategy, as well as a host of other things I probably don't know about. There are a few reasons why I switched to my non-dominant hand for mousing. Firstly, I injured my hand by having the mouse sensitivity set too high. Secondly, the biggest issue with very skilled people teaching newcomers to that skill, is that they don't understand the difficulties their student is going through. Maybe because they've never had them, maybe its because its been so long that they don't really remember what it feels like, and therefore have a difficult time helping their student through the struggle. It also does not take the best violinist in the world, or even a professional violinist to teach someone with less understanding of the instrument than them how to play well. I understand that I have to be a master or grandmaster for some people to take me seriously, but 80% of people who play starcraft are in the platinum and below leagues. That's a shit ton of people that for the most part get neglected and told vague and unhelpful things like "just macro more" and "get better mechanics" or "only practice one strat" etc etc Day9 has newbie tuesdays and is a great entertainer/caster/teacher, but a lot of players aren't at the place in their play where they can truely benefit from his show. I believe that this community needs someone dedicated to helping out that 80% of people who play starcraft 2. I believe that the person to that is me. In addition to helping players improve, I create, and help create tool that all players of starcraft II can use. Again, most of the things I do some people will write off as "dumb" or "a waste of time", and with them I respectfully disagree. If I would suggest one of them for you to look at, it would be TheCore. TheCore is a custom hotkey layout for Sc2 that uses data from over 2000 professional game replays to match the most frequently executed commands with the fastest keys to press. Most of what I do is unorthodox, so if you don't approach it with an open mind, it will look "dumb" and "a waste of time" Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know you are very busy, but I had to explain myself fully to respond to your post. Since we're gonna use an instrument analogy, I'll go with something I know. I play guitar. I can read about guitar and music theory all day, I can even watch tons of videos on it. But until I'm actually able to play the instrument, it's useless. You're the equivalent of a guitar teacher that doesn't actually own a guitar trying to teach someone else guitar because he has a bunch of books. It's useless. It's impossible to truly understand the mindset of an improving player when you're a super low level player. You're also trying to turn practicing into some sort of math formula based on overthinking things. Just play the game normally and improve. You're wasting your time. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On September 03 2012 01:53 uberism wrote: The best violin teacher is not the best violinist, but usually damn good. Same thing for most coaches, they were at least a professional in their field with a good ability to teach. Look at all the pro sports coaches, those guys knew how to play the game in their prime. People are platinum and below because they play the game for fun and don't care about getting before. If you were actively trying to get better, there is no way you are not at least diamond. As someone who went from bronze to masters, I would generally agree. But you'd be surprised how many people really really want to rank up, but can't get past silver or gold. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
But one issue, a big issue is really hard not to see. Almost all users including the Jak are below average sc2 players. That doesn't help to advertise the core at all. And it never will, that's a fact. Hotkey just doesn't matter that much in sc2, sure it can be convinient but there is a fine point, and this setup has crossed it. Why i doubted the core from the start is very simple. IMO the mechanics of starcraft is something that you develop by repetitive practice. If you put the time in, you will develop mechanics, no disscusion. That means if your main army is on the left part of keyboard and harass units on right, shift in the other room (lol) that doesn't mean shit - just practice like you don't know that you can put them next to each other and you will get used to it and never look back. Mechanics are not the bottle neck of starcraft - it's the brain. And brain is something that is harder to train because of million different reasons. Understanding of the game is what makes you go higher - every idiot can develop mechanics and that is something you need 5 minutes from a good player to explain to anyone how to practice mechanics. The core is cool project, props for helping helpless maggots noobs ^_^, but now, after some time it's starting to look like one of the million fail projects every day. That doesn't mean people should start trying to push their ideas. I hope a lot of people use it in the future, just because you invested so much passion and thought into it but IMHO this has alost zero percent with CORE of the starcraft universe. edit: just if someone was wondering - i have shit mechanics, casual player, aggresive style-all inish, adore sc2 scene, and i am a fucking 1300 master player. I only have cameras changed from ctrl+shift+f2 changed to shift+f2 etc... | ||
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sanddbox_sc2
United States173 Posts
On September 03 2012 04:50 Mesha wrote: I want to say something because i think i have been lurking the development from the start, so i know a little about the project and what is all about. I gave respect to Jakatak and choose from the start not to put the project down. I didn't understand it at all, but that wasn't the reason to talk trash. I liked the idea about the 2000 pro replays as the development base, but that's about it. Everything else, although understandable and well structured has absolutely nothing with the brutal reality of starcraft. Yea, i watched a few of the videos of leveling. That should be avoided, not practiced. Sorry... But one issue, a big issue is really hard not to see. Almost all users including the Jak are below average sc2 players. That doesn't help to advertise the core at all. And it never will, that's a fact. Hotkey just doesn't matter that much in sc2, sure it can be convinient but there is a fine point, and this setup has crossed it. Why i doubted the core from the start is very simple. IMO the mechanics of starcraft is something that you develop by repetitive practice. If you put the time in, you will develop mechanics, no disscusion. That means if your main army is on the left part of keyboard and harass units on right, shift in the other room (lol) that doesn't mean shit - just practice like you don't know that you can put them next to each other and you will get used to it and never look back. Mechanics are not the bottle neck of starcraft - it's the brain. And brain is something that is harder to train because of million different reasons. Understanding of the game is what makes you go higher - every idiot can develop mechanics and that is something you need 5 minutes from a good player to explain to anyone how to practice mechanics. The core is cool project, props for helping helpless maggots noobs ^_^, but now, after some time it's starting to look like one of the million fail projects every day. That doesn't mean people should start trying to push their ideas. I hope a lot of people use it in the future, just because you invested so much passion and thought into it but IMHO this has alost zero percent with CORE of the starcraft universe. edit: just if someone was wondering - i have shit mechanics, casual player, aggresive style-all inish, adore sc2 scene, and i am a fucking 1300 master player. I only have cameras changed from ctrl+shift+f2 changed to shift+f2 etc... A 1300 point master?!?!?! Dude, you've now earned your PHD in Starcraft. Congratulations. User was warned for this post | ||
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Chandra
United States123 Posts
On September 03 2012 01:45 JaKaTaK wrote: I understand that what I am doing is a bit weird, but gimme a sec. The best violinist in the world is not necessarily the best violin teacher. Conversely, the best violin teacher in the world is not the best violinist. This is the same reason that Sc2 coaches for teams do not have to be at the top of their game mechanically. But they do have to understand how to manage their players, and understand the game in its entirety, mechanics and strategy, as well as a host of other things I probably don't know about. There are a few reasons why I switched to my non-dominant hand for mousing. Firstly, I injured my hand by having the mouse sensitivity set too high. Secondly, the biggest issue with very skilled people teaching newcomers to that skill, is that they don't understand the difficulties their student is going through. Maybe because they've never had them, maybe its because its been so long that they don't really remember what it feels like, and therefore have a difficult time helping their student through the struggle. It also does not take the best violinist in the world, or even a professional violinist to teach someone with less understanding of the instrument than them how to play well. I understand that I have to be a master or grandmaster for some people to take me seriously, but 80% of people who play starcraft are in the platinum and below leagues. That's a shit ton of people that for the most part get neglected and told vague and unhelpful things like "just macro more" and "get better mechanics" or "only practice one strat" etc etc Day9 has newbie tuesdays and is a great entertainer/caster/teacher, but a lot of players aren't at the place in their play where they can truely benefit from his show. I believe that this community needs someone dedicated to helping out that 80% of people who play starcraft 2. I believe that the person to that is me. In addition to helping players improve, I create, and help create tool that all players of starcraft II can use. Again, most of the things I do some people will write off as "dumb" or "a waste of time", and with them I respectfully disagree. If I would suggest one of them for you to look at, it would be TheCore. TheCore is a custom hotkey layout for Sc2 that uses data from over 2000 professional game replays to match the most frequently executed commands with the fastest keys to press. Most of what I do is unorthodox, so if you don't approach it with an open mind, it will look "dumb" and "a waste of time" Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know you are very busy, but I had to explain myself fully to respond to your post. You say "The best violinist in the world is not necessarily the best violin teacher." I would argue that the best violin teacher in the world can probably play a lot better than a middle school student who picked up their instrument for the first time a year ago. And that's pretty much where you are in the full spectrum of Starcraft 2 skill. Being in gold league means that you lack the experience and perspective to authoritatively inform people how to play, even absolute beginners. Anyone who has played the game for more than a couple months and has found some existing resources on learning how to play (i.e. Day9, Liquipedia, TL Strategy) can easily tell someone in the depths of bronze how to develop decent enough fundamentals to get better. But giving people a stringent training methodology when you yourself have never developed your own skills to be able to play at a high level seems really dishonest to me. I think it's a requirement as a good teacher to be able to have the experience necessary to say what's good play and what isn't. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
It's strange to me. You want to put on a show for people who play SC2 at the lowest levels. Those people who play at the lowest levels probably don't care that much about getting better and most likely wouldn't be visiting fan sites like TL or screddit for information about how to play better because they don't care. If someone was serious about getting better at SC2, they would do what everyone else did and play lots and lots of games. They wouldn't watch your show because the show teaches nothing that a noob wouldn't figure out on his own playing games. The idea of radically changing a hotkey layout is also incredibly flawed. You state yourself that your hotkey layout would take a COUPLE HUNDRED GAMES to become comfortable with. The flaw is that you lose a couple hundred games worth of real practice. You wouldn't be able to focus on playing the game as you would be struggling with operating a completely new and seemingly unintuitive control scheme that MIGHT boost your apm if not make it worse. Those few hundered games could boost someone from being a silver leaguer to a platinum or diamond leaguer. When I first started playing SC2, it took me approx 250 1v1's to get myself from silver to diamond. If I had to struggle with a new hotkey setup, I'd still be in silver league. What you do with your time is your business but I feel that you are possibly a detriment to new players trying to get into SC2. | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
I'm a noob. I've been playing SC2 for a couple of months and it's my first RTS. Over that time I've worked my way up to diamond from tin. I love it, I love the frenetic challenge. It's the most engaging computer gaming experience I've ever had. SC2 for the newcomer feels very very opaque. I started sc2 with a couple months worth Day9 dailies knowledge at my disposal, I followed all the streams, I had favorite players, I knew build orders... still progress was very slow in coming because no one takes the time to create ways to work on mechanics exclusively. Enter Filter and Jakatak. Filter is great and I love his stuff, but he's very hands off by comparison and very inconsistent in putting content out. His battle with depression has further complicated his pursuits and I wish him all the best. I don't use the Core, so I'm not commenting on that. People use whatever hotkeys work for them. The Jakatak level method works and is fun. It's a no-nonsense construct that forces noobs like me to spend your goddamn money. That's it. What could be wrong with that? It's mine as much as you can and spend as fast as you can. It promotes good mechanics of focusing on nailing production cycles, not queueing and spending macro mechanic energy. I love to use the Jakatak method as a way to cool down after a long day at work, but still work on mechanics. It keeps me active in SC2 when exhaustion and mental fatigue would otherwise restrict me from playing. Every one of the detractors in this thread have voiced wary suspicions of "OMG YOU ONLY HAVE 3 GOLD ACCOUNTS!! HOW DARE YOU POST IN TL!" Guys guys... please. He was a masters player before an injury that forces him to play with his hands inverted. That's right... he's a gold player playing with the keyboard and mouse in the opposite hand. I take personal offense to this because it's not only ignorant, it's unfair to someone giving this pursuit his complete dedication. Jakatak approaches his stream and his efforts with incredible energy and optimism. If you've ever popped into his live stream, yea the quality of the games will be "meh.." at best if you're anywhere close to diamond, but it's fun and low stress. He handles trolls with aplomb and creates a fun, engaging community that is dedicated to just practicing and getting better. His Bnet chat channel is the only one I actually enjoy reading. This guy is a prime example of what SC2 needs: infectious optimism and energy and a tireless dedication to the people who use his product. For fellow noobs, check his stuff out and get involved. It's fun and removes unneeded layers of stress from this complex pursuit. TLDR; This guy is a good personality and has good content. Actually read/watch before you flame please. p.s. he's live now...  like usual | ||
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On September 03 2012 10:24 Kronen wrote: Hi guys, had to step in here. I'm a noob. I've been playing SC2 for a couple of months and it's my first RTS. Over that time I've worked my way up to diamond from tin. I love it, I love the frenetic challenge. It's the most engaging computer gaming experience I've ever had. SC2 for the newcomer feels very very opaque. I started sc2 with a couple months worth Day9 dailies knowledge at my disposal, I followed all the streams, I had favorite players, I knew build orders... still progress was very slow in coming because no one takes the time to create ways to work on mechanics exclusively. Enter Filter and Jakatak. Filter is great and I love his stuff, but he's very hands off by comparison and very inconsistent in putting content out. His battle with depression has further complicated his pursuits and I wish him all the best. I don't use the Core, so I'm not commenting on that. People use whatever hotkeys work for them. The Jakatak level method works and is fun. It's a no-nonsense construct that forces noobs like me to spend your goddamn money. That's it. What could be wrong with that? It's mine as much as you can and spend as fast as you can. It promotes good mechanics of focusing on nailing production cycles, not queueing and spending macro mechanic energy. I love to use the Jakatak method as a way to cool down after a long day at work, but still work on mechanics. It keeps me active in SC2 when exhaustion and mental fatigue would otherwise restrict me from playing. Every one of the detractors in this thread have voiced wary suspicions of "OMG YOU ONLY HAVE 3 GOLD ACCOUNTS!! HOW DARE YOU POST IN TL!" Guys guys... please. He was a masters player before an injury that forces him to play with his hands inverted. That's right... he's a gold player playing with the keyboard and mouse in the opposite hand. I take personal offense to this because it's not only ignorant, it's unfair to someone giving this pursuit his complete dedication. Jakatak approaches his stream and his efforts with incredible energy and optimism. If you've ever popped into his live stream, yea the quality of the games will be "meh.." at best if you're anywhere close to diamond, but it's fun and low stress. He handles trolls with aplomb and creates a fun, engaging community that is dedicated to just practicing and getting better. His Bnet chat channel is the only one I actually enjoy reading. This guy is a prime example of what SC2 needs. Infectious optimism and energy and a tireless dedication to the people who use his product. For fellow noobs, check his stuff out and get involved. It's fun and removes unneeded layers of stress from this complex pursuit. TLDR; This guy is a good personality and has good content. Actually read/watch before you flame please. p.s. he's live now... like usualPersonality doesn't mean anything. You can be the nicest guy in the world but if you're wrong, you're wrong. No matter how you look at it he's a gold player. His builds are bad and he has no idea what he's talking about. His entire teaching method is based off of silly concepts. Glurkenspurk.829 Add me. I'll teach you far more efficiently. | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
On September 03 2012 10:27 Glurkenspurk wrote: Personality doesn't mean anything. You can be the nicest guy in the world but if you're wrong, you're wrong. No matter how you look at it he's a gold player. His builds are bad and he has no idea what he's talking about. His entire teaching method is based off of silly concepts. Glurkenspurk.829 Add me. I'll teach you far more efficiently. Added but you're not online.  Dude, they're not builds. They're artificial constructs to just spend money and practice constant production and supply. Once you get proficient with them you can transition into real play, into real build orders. As far as being based on "silly concepts" I can't speak to your idea of silly. That SQ research is pretty consistent across levels of SC2 play, and is also very easy to benchmark outside of the game. That's why I like to use it. I appreciate your concern for my playing though and look forward to learning from you when you're online! -Kronen.965 | ||
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Hargol
United States52 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
@Hargol The profanity is very much decreased. But I do throw around the occasional "Fuck" or "Shit" sorry if this has deterred you. | ||
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Conut
Canada1026 Posts
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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Mesha
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On September 03 2012 09:08 sanddbox_sc2 wrote: A 1300 point master?!?!?! Dude, you've now earned your PHD in Starcraft. Congratulations. I don't consider myself a good player. I don't have ambition to become one. I just enjoy playing. The info about myself being a master level was just as a reference where i am as a casual player without using some special hotkey setup. Thanks for completely missunderstaning the point. Also, that info don't have any meaning if you took it out of context from my entire post. But whatever, i am done with this subject. GL. | ||
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