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Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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wc4482
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
June 18 2012 14:20 GMT
#61
I have been thinking of names for your method, or how to approach introducing the system to people who are unfamiliar.

Name: "The Core Four"
This refers to the four fundamental principles of macro:
WORKERS - Constantly building out of nexus/CC/ or for zerg, constant larvae use
SUPPLY - Never getting supply blocked - depots/pylons/OLs
PRODUCTION - Never having idle barracks/gateways/ for zerg, never missing injects
SPENDING QUOTIENT - Keeping the money low

Weakness in one or multiple of these core principles of macro is what new players struggle with. In order to improve, Jak makes things simple by introducing a level system, which I call "Macro Layers".
+ Show Spoiler +
Protoss
Lvl 1 Probe, Zealot, Pylon, Gateway, Nexus (including chrono boost) (can beat GOLD some players)
Lvl 2 +Assimilator, Cybernetics Core (including warpgate research), Stalker
Lvl 3 +Sentry
Lvl 4 +Forge, Forge upgrades, Twilight Council, Charge, Blink
Lvl 5 +Robotics Facility, Immortal, Observer
Lvl 6 +Robotics Bay, Colossus
Lvl 7 +Dark shrine, Dark templar
Lvl 8 +Archon
Lvl 9 +Stargate, Voidray
Lvl 10 +Fleet Beacon, Carrier
Lvl 11 +Graviton Catapult, air upgrades
Lvl 12 +Templar Archives, High Templar
Lvl 13 +Warp Prism
Lvl 14 +Phoenix
Lvl 15 +Mothership

Terran
Lvl 1 Supply Depot, Barracks, Marine, SCV, Command Center (can beat some PLATINUM players)
Lvl 2 +Orbital Command
Lvl 3 +Tech Lab, Reactor, Marauder
Lvl 4 +Reaper (can beat some DIAMOND players)
Lvl 5 +Engineering Bay, Refinery, Combat Shields, Concussive Shells, Stim Packs, +1 infantry upgrades
Lvl 6 +Ghost Academy, Ghost
Lvl 7 +Factory, Hellion
Lvl 8 +Infernal Pre-Igniter, Nitro Packs
Lvl 9 +Tank
Lvl 10 +Armory, Thor
Lvl 11 +vehicle upgrades, +2/+3 infantry upgrades
Lvl 12 +Starport, Medivac
Lvl 13 +Banshee
Lvl 14 +Battle Cruiser, Viking
Lvl 15 +ship upgrades
Lvl 16 +Raven

Zerg
Lvl 1 Hatchery, Drone, Overlord, Spawning Pool, Zergling (can beat some GOLD players)
Lvl 2 +Queen, Extractor, Metabolic Boost
Lvl 3 +Baneling nest, Baneling
Lvl 4 +Roach warren, Roach
Lvl 5 +Evolution Chamber, +1/+2 ground upgrades, Lair, Centrifugal Hooks, Glial Reconstitution, Overseer, Pneumatized Carapace (can beat some PLATINUM players)
Lvl 6 + Hydralisk Den, Hydralisk, Grooved Spines
Lvl 7 +Spire, Mutalisk, Corruptor
Lvl 8 +1/+2 air upgrades
Lvl 9 +Infestation Pit, Hive, Ultralisk Cavern, Ultralisk
Lvl 10 +3 ground upgrades, Chineous Plating, Adrenal Glands
Lvl 11 +Greater Spire, Broodlord
Lvl 12 +3 air upgrades
Lvl 13 +Infestor
Lvl 14 +Ventral Sacs


Think of it like layers of a pyramid. You have to start from the ground up and make sure you can consistently spend larvae, build overlords, inject, and keep the money low (by only producing zerglings). When you have solidified the foundation of your pyramid you can add another layer (gas management). You keep working at it until you have mastered the 2nd layer, before moving onto the third.
SC2 name: ThelVlaster on NA server
wc4482
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 15:11:56
June 18 2012 14:53 GMT
#62
Also I think you should continue to market your first hour of programming as either 1. Demonstrating the system yourself via ladder or 2. Your return of the newb series; however I think it will help you if you refer to/market the 2nd hour as live coaching for anyone who joins channel TheJakatak on NA server.

I think currently you just call hour two practice - which it is (1v1 freestyle vs macro method). You also tend to say a few things for someone to focus on or for someone to think about - THIS IS COACHING AND IT IS SUPER VALUABLE for new players to have some direction on where they can improve specifically.

Edit: You could change your Stream Title in Twitch or for Reddit posts to play around with the phrase: "Macro Better".

Examples:
What "Macro Better" really means... Improving the Core Four.
How to "Macro Better" with the Core Four - System and Live Coaching by Jakatak.
SC2 name: ThelVlaster on NA server
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-18 15:29:52
June 18 2012 15:29 GMT
#63
On June 01 2012 06:05 JaKaTaK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 05:33 ulfryc wrote:
Really like your commitment to esports.

I'll be helping all of the new and struggling lower level players to improve as quickly as possible EVERY DAY at 02:00 CEST (+02:00).

What is your background? Why do you think you can help other people? Do you play in Masters or what legitimates do you have?


I have studied education in college, and have taught music individually for 10 years.


I think music education is the exact right way to train for SC2. I used to teach drumming and the problems there are similar. Kids just want to bang on drums and play along with their favorite songs. Then they get frustrated when they can't play something harder or "cooler" that they see pro drummers do. The problem is those same kids would yawn at doing their rudiments. They would find it boring or tedious or in some cases had previous instructors who didn't really explain the intricacies of them. But without mastering your rudiments you can never be a pro drummer or anything even close to it.

I myself am a Bronze player and have been since the game came out. I can never seem to break into Silver, and I admit it's because up until now, like my old students, I've been trying to just do the cool fun stuff right away. That works until you end up hitting a glass ceiling where it's not fun anymore. Now I'm sitting down and finally learning my SC2 "rudiments".

Glad there's more people interested in teaching this way.
STX Fighting!
wc4482
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
June 20 2012 16:30 GMT
#64
What if you called your improvement method, "The Macro Ladder"? Each level could be a different rung of the ladder. Helps the imagery of starting from the ground up and progressing towards a goal.
SC2 name: ThelVlaster on NA server
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 20 2012 20:16 GMT
#65
On June 21 2012 01:30 wc4482 wrote:
What if you called your improvement method, "The Macro Ladder"? Each level could be a different rung of the ladder. Helps the imagery of starting from the ground up and progressing towards a goal.


I definitely like the direction you're going with this one, but I'm not feeling it just yet. The Macro Ladder is too long for me I think. Feels clunky if you know what I mean.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
bailando
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany332 Posts
June 20 2012 20:21 GMT
#66
a little bit offtopic: i wonder how you explained this to family/relatives

awesome idea btw! keep it up!
wc4482
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-21 14:32:12
June 21 2012 13:15 GMT
#67
On June 21 2012 05:16 JaKaTaK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2012 01:30 wc4482 wrote:
What if you called your improvement method, "The Macro Ladder"? Each level could be a different rung of the ladder. Helps the imagery of starting from the ground up and progressing towards a goal.


I definitely like the direction you're going with this one, but I'm not feeling it just yet. The Macro Ladder is too long for me I think. Feels clunky if you know what I mean.


I see what you mean. Just brainstorming here but how do you feel about "MacroTrak".

Scenario #1:
Opponent: "GG. How/Why did you make so many zerglings? "
Me: "I'm deliberately practicing only macro. Keep your Macro on track with the MacroTrak system, by JakaTak. Check it out at <insert twitch.tv>

SC2 name: ThelVlaster on NA server
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 21 2012 16:47 GMT
#68
Mmmm, but keep in mind, the system actually is accounting for macro and micro. The big thing is that we focus on the things in starcraft that do not change Hrmmmm
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
wc4482
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
June 22 2012 16:37 GMT
#69
So what you are trying to find a name for is your training program for newbies.

I'm thinking something that alludes to the fact that you are making the game more simpler by restricting the tech tree, so that underlying principles can be noticed and internalized. K.I.S.S. comes to mind, but too generic.

I'll have to get back to you
SC2 name: ThelVlaster on NA server
Flooz
Profile Joined April 2012
United States37 Posts
June 22 2012 17:12 GMT
#70
nice! def gonna check this out when i get home
"There is nothing cooler than being proud of the things you love" - Day[9]
LavendrGooms
Profile Joined May 2011
United States134 Posts
June 22 2012 17:37 GMT
#71
On June 01 2012 03:41 JaKaTaK wrote:Macro>Strategy>Micro
Many players were trying to execute MC, Nestea, MVP strategies they saw on the GSL or various other strategies without having the ability to keep the money low, constantly build workers, inject, or keep their idle larva count down. Another thing I noticed is stutter step micro. Many struggling players will micro their heart out in an engagement and end up with 2-5k resources in the bank! Talking about Strategy or micro in Sc2 before you can do the very basic things (or even know what the very basic things in Sc2 are) is like talking about strategy or trick moves in soccer when you can't accurately pass shoot or even have the endurance to run for a 30 minute game.


First time reading this and I couldn't agree more. I used to play competitive soccer and I can definitely see the correlation between them.

What you're doing is awesome!
www.twitch.tv/lavendrgooms
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 23 2012 02:24 GMT
#72
Thanks guys! :D It seriously makes this so much more worth doing when I come on TL and I have posts like this to read. Seriously.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
ellaguru
Profile Joined March 2012
United States35 Posts
June 30 2012 02:39 GMT
#73
beating people with nothing but 0/0 shieldless stimless marines is the most satisfying thing ever
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
June 30 2012 03:04 GMT
#74
I will check it out for sure. Are you doing a day 9 type show? ?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 30 2012 12:13 GMT
#75
@HeeroFX
Think Day9, but every day is newbie tuesday, or one of the dailies on mechanics. I definitely don't go into any metagame anything. The focus is on the things in Sc2 that remain the same: macro, micro & mechanics.

Instead of teaching people to focus on a specific strategy or build order, I focus on MM&M so that the player is free to choose his/her style, and has the freedom to do any number of strategies he/she wants based on his/her level in the system. Check out the info section on the twitch page for more details :D

@ellaguru
absolutely agreed. Beating players with slow lings and no queens is even more satisfying to me
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
wc4482
Profile Joined September 2010
United States45 Posts
July 01 2012 18:06 GMT
#76
For the zergies out there who are using the ladder for Jak's Incremental Improvement Method, I have created a spreadsheet to track your progress in the Macro department.

Make a copy of this google doc and I think you should be able to edit it as your own.

Columns A through C are self explanatory. Columns E and F are inputs for SQ (no calculator needed, just copy the formula in D down as you add games). Columns G, H, and I are statistics from SC2 gears (google search if you don't have it) and can be found by looking at "Main Building Control" when opening a single replay in the "analyzer". Column J is just a little comment section.

May the Macro be with you.
SC2 name: ThelVlaster on NA server
Ziel
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Malaysia241 Posts
July 01 2012 18:17 GMT
#77
Why isn't this spotlighted yet?

Awesome idea, OP! :D
TheLittleOne Fan Club! Best game to date -> TLI RO4 TLO v Naz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91XjX59O-VQ
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-02 15:51:35
July 02 2012 12:46 GMT
#78
Thanks Ziel! I certainly would love some spotlight action! I'm sure it will come with time. We've still got 10 months left to make this successful.

Nice spreadsheet WC. Cool stuff :D

EDIT: We're all caught up on uploading the episodes of TheJaKaTaK to Blip.tv!

http://blip.tv/thejakatak
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Banj0
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden53 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-13 15:55:05
July 13 2012 15:54 GMT
#79
I found this thread through TheCore layout thread.

The most important aspect in your concept here is that in order to advance to the next level, the SQ requirement dictates that you need to macro better than a grandmaster player! This is a brilliant concept. I wish I wasnt going on vacation next week so I could really apply myself to this.
image in spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

My name suggestion for your concept would be a simple name. Nothing fancy, because neutral names often work very well in the long run. (examples: ASUS, 3M, AMD..) On that note, you could just abbreviate it to 'JIM' for JaKaTak Improvement Method. But you have to act fast! Spanishiwa's opening very quickly became 'Spanishiwa Style', even though he called it the Icefisher, so think quick! :D

Other abbreviations:
JLM, JaKaTak Learning Method
PLM, progressive Learning method
JTIM, JaKaTak tiered improvement model/method
JTIC, JaKaTak tiered improvement Concept
TPM, tiered progressive method (call it TPM by JakaTak for creds or something)

also:
JaKademy (this would be an excellent name for your show!)

edit: >>> mods: This thread deserves to be to be spotlighted! <<<

JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
July 13 2012 16:57 GMT
#80
Hey hey Banj0!

Glad to see you like the method. And thanks for your ideas.

Right now I think JLS has the nicest ring to it
(JaKaTaK Level System)

As far as the show, its called TheJaKaTaK. I really like that so I'll be keeping it

Thanks again for the advice. I'll definitely try to think of some more ideas, let me know if you come up with some new ones :D
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
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