TheJaKaTaK - Page 8

On September 04 2012 22:48 QuanticHawk wrote:
This is exactly what your levels is—Repeat with these same units until you hit a certain benchmark, continue? Except that your method uses less units, and isn't an actual build which will be useful in higher levels of play as well.

I just see a very limited use this that stuff after couple days of doing the same, extremely basic thing. What you're coaching can very easily be learned through just playing, reading the many guides available (which stress the importance of injection, not getting supply blocked and other basic mechanics), and watching replays of players who are actually good.

You will learn way more in 50 games of hammering away with one build order than you will with 50 games of this.

And I didn't see you answer it anywhere else: why would you quit your job for this, and what is your end goal here? I just don't see how this translates into any type of income.

On September 05 2012 00:48 JaKaTaK wrote:
EDIT:

Basically what you are saying is, if i'm trying to teach a child how to add and subtract, and they aren't getting it, instead of trying to explain the problem in a different way or ask them what they don't understand about it, I should tell them they aren't trying hard enough and that they don't want it bad enough. Wow...
END EDIT

On September 05 2012 06:42 Oreo7 wrote:



That is a terrible analogy.

On September 05 2012 06:42 Oreo7 wrote:



That is a terrible analogy.

On September 06 2012 12:51 akarin wrote:
I watched the first 2 and half minutes of "TheJaKaTaK 86 - Macro vs Strategy" then I had to turn it off. Your mannerisms are so similar to Day9 it made me cringe. BE YOURSELF


<3

On September 04 2012 12:08 JaKaTaK wrote:
Giving a new player a build to do is more constricting than my system. It basically says, "hey, you're only allowed to do this exact single series of things over and over again until you're good at it, and then, you're going to do that again with a new series of things" Most new players will find this incredibly boring. It stifles creativity, understanding, and exploration of the game.

Find yourself 2 people who have never played sc2 before. Better yet, find yourself 2 people who have never played an rts before. Give one of them a build, and give one of them Level 1.1. 99.9999999% of the time, the player on level 1.1 will crush the player you gave a build order to, will have more fun playing the game, and will start buidling confidence and an understanding of why and how things work. The player that you give a build order to will be overloaded with information, lose, become frustrated, and not understand why or how things work in starcraft 2. I know this works, because I've done it, many times. The issue with most higher level players teaching platinum to bronze players, is that they often times fail to recognize the struggles of the lower level player because it has been so long since they have been there. You don't have to be in the master's league to teach a player mechanics, but you do have to have a basic understanding of educational methods and psychology, human motivation, and patience.

But in all seriousness, go test it out for yourself. Grab a couple of friends who haven't played an rts before, and conduct the experiment. Observe the players before, during, and after they play. Talk to them about the experience afterwards. Forcing people to learn builds early on is a mistake. That's why we lose so many newer players, not because the game is too hard, but we're approaching teaching it in the wrong way.

On September 13 2012 08:03 7mk wrote:



Addressing Paragraph 1:
No its not more constricting, quite the opposite. Theres nothing creative about building only super basic units, there will be no gain of understanding about the game except "have better mechanics" with this method, so yeah its basically the opposite of what youre trying to say.
You seem to think that if you play a proper build order you will have 1000 games that will just play out the same every time and youll have to work through it like a robot. Thats not how starcraft is, its a fluid game, you have to react to your opponents, you will see new facets of the build youre playing everytime that you face a new opponent.
You will learn its strengths, you will learn its weaknesses, you will learn to adjust the build according to what your opponent does, and you will improve your mechanics during all of this.

What do you learn when you only build marines, supply depots and CCs? None of these things, you will merely improve your macro, you will learn nothing else except that youre playing a build that wins you games if you outmacro your opponent and loses you games if you dont or you do outmacro him but he just counters your units too hard cause your non-existant build is awful.

When you have gotten good by playing only one good solid build, then transitioning to a different build is actually very easy because the adjustments arent that huge. If I try to do a build ive never tried before, even the very first time i try this build, it will not be as good as my most familiar build but it will still be master lvl.
But switching from your lvls to a real game is a way way bigger difference and then the player will realize that his mechanics are actually awful now that he has to do things that are more complex all of a sudden,
Similar to how even a master player can start screwing up his mechanics when his opponent throws something at him that is unconventional and catches him off guard. Being familiar with what you have to do is what makes you good at the game and lets you have good mechanics. Not having to think that much because you know the right responses is what gets you good mechanics. Mechanics is actually a lot more than learning to press D and A really fast but you wont learn that with your method, you need to learn a proper build for that.


Addressing paragraph 2:
Youre just making shit up now, youre talking out of your ass. 99.99999% ... right... I dont even know what to say to that,
And in general you really have nothing at all to show for your method. How many people that you taught are really good at the game now? So far i only read about one guy who actually got demoted after using your method.
People who have gotten really good by learning build orders? well... basically everyone who is good at the game
And this goes with paragraph 3 as well, sure I could go find some people that havent played the game, teach him your method, and they would probably slowly improve. I could also teach him a standard method and they would improve a lot faster. And if someone here will eventually say that your method helped him get from bronze to silver that means absolutely nothing, cause that is by far the easiest step.
And I actually talk to low lvl players a lot, I meet up with my local starcraft community every week, they learn the standard way, and there have been a lot of people that recently improved quite a bit, one promoted from diamond to master, another one promoted from platinum to diamond, another one promoted from gold to platinum, and one of the guys i gave a bit more detailed help improved in like a month from silver to platinum lvl.

Last time I posted you said it was ironic that people were telling you you were wasting your time while they/we were actually wasting time posting here.
The difference is that we waste a few minutes trying to help you but youre spending a whole year on this.
Even though it probably sounds like it, i didnt come here to bash you, you really do sound like a nice guy, with all of this I'm just trying to say that I really think there would be more productive, helpful things you could be doing with your life right now.

On September 13 2012 08:03 7mk wrote:

Addressing Paragraph 1:
No its not more constricting, quite the opposite. Theres nothing creative about building only super basic units, there will be no gain of understanding about the game except "have better mechanics" with this method, so yeah its basically the opposite of what youre trying to say.

It is most effective to launch into the learning process by studying a discipline’s most fundamental principles. A devotion to mastering the nuances of these basics builds the foundation required for more complex understanding; creative bursts of inspiration; and higher levels of achievement, which result from an interplay between knowledge, intuition, and creativity. By studying and deeply internalizing core concepts we develop our brain in ways that allow us to achieve a more penetrating understanding of not just one subject or practice but also all others we choose to undertake. As we immerse ourselves in doing what it takes to absorb and build on fundamentals, we experience first-hand the joy of learning and reinforce for ourselves its value. Allowing ourselves to grasp the intrinsic benefit of personal development through what we do to achieve it enhances our motivation and equips us to take learning further.

“Bruce began our study with a barren chessboard. We took on positions of reduced complexity and clear principles. Our first focus was king and pawn against king—just three pieces on the table….Layer by layer we built up my knowledge and my understanding of how to transform axioms into fuel for creative insight….This method of study gave me a feeling for the beautiful subtleties of each chess piece, because in relatively clear-cut positions I could focus on what was essential. I was also gradually internalizing a marvelous methodology of learning—the play between knowledge, intuition, and creativity. From both educational and technical perspectives, I learned from the foundation up.”

“Most of my rivals, on the other hand, began by studying opening variations….Once you start with openings, there is no way out….
It is a little like developing the habit of stealing the test from your teacher’s desk instead of learning how to do the math. You may pass the test, but you learn absolutely nothing—and most critically, you don’t gain an appreciation for the value or beauty of learning itself.”