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kmh
Finland351 Posts
On May 21 2012 21:39 Corsica wrote: so how do you defend those 7-8 gate allins with like 32 probes? i just feel so scared without roaches  You note the lack of gas and go for roaches. You don't commit to spire-play before seeing the gases at the natural. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On May 21 2012 21:49 kmh wrote: You note the lack of gas and go for roaches. You don't commit to spire-play before seeing the gases at the natural. Couldn't you just go mass spine anyways? Gateway allins are pretty weak to spine crawlers :O I mean hell, even the immortal allin got too far slowed down by the mass spines, and immortals are fantastic against spines. | ||
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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kmh
Finland351 Posts
On May 21 2012 22:00 -orb- wrote: Couldn't you just go mass spine anyways? Gateway allins are pretty weak to spine crawlers :O I mean hell, even the immortal allin got too far slowed down by the mass spines, and immortals are fantastic against spines. I don't think mass spining makes a lot of sense - you have three bases to defend after all. Nestea's plan was to abandon his third and turtle at his natural while base-trading, and the mutas aren't out until 10:40 or so. It would seem suicidal to do this against a gateway all-in that hits before 10 minutes. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On May 21 2012 22:11 kmh wrote: I don't think mass spining makes a lot of sense - you have three bases to defend after all. Nestea's plan was to abandon his third and turtle at his natural while base-trading, and the mutas aren't out until 10:40 or so. It would seem suicidal to do this against a gateway all-in that hits before 10 minutes. Yup, he already stated in his interview that he didn't plan on taking on protoss army after seeing him go immortal sentry. he decided a base trade is the best situation. | ||
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Shibbxyz
United Kingdom94 Posts
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
On May 21 2012 22:38 ImNightmare wrote: Yup, he already stated in his interview that he didn't plan on taking on protoss army after seeing him go immortal sentry. he decided a base trade is the best situation. Hm. Do you think maybe that is why the BW pros were all just smashing their armies into the protoss base when they got immortal 2 based? Maybe they weren't just being retarded. Preparing for a base trade may be the most reliable way to beat something like this. | ||
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Qgelfich
Germany90 Posts
Hm. Do you think maybe that is why the BW pros were all just smashing their armies into the protoss base when they got immortal 2 based? Maybe they weren't just being retarded. Preparing for a base trade may be the most reliable way to beat something like this. Its probably the most reliable way when ure not prepared enough. If you can hold it (eg you got hydras with range as well as a good amount of units in time, or burrow movement, infestors and so on) id rather smash it, the loss of all those sentries and immortals, as well as his lack of economy and tech is much more likely to be a win than baseracing. And, dont think that those broodwar pros were super good at sc2, most of them are just low/mid masters with superb mechanics and bad gamesense (for now). | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On May 21 2012 23:11 Odal wrote: Hm. Do you think maybe that is why the BW pros were all just smashing their armies into the protoss base when they got immortal 2 based? Maybe they weren't just being retarded. Preparing for a base trade may be the most reliable way to beat something like this. They are still fresh in the gameplay of SC2. At the current BW pros level skill in SC2, the protoss race would dominate since toss army are better than Z or T army in the mid-late game. I watched those games and literally almost every battle the toss would win because the T or Z would try to engage the enemy head on without spreading or flanking and bait out more forcefields. Plus, the terran players were overstimming a lot and repeatedly retreating and never engaging properly. But this is something they can work on since they are still new to the game. Plus, they have to train in both games which is pretty tough and also the OSL is still going on. Most people still in the current OSL season were the ones losing(Flash,Soulkey,etc) since they are probably putting more time into BW practice. But one thing though that i have to give the BW players credit is that they have freaking sick map awareness. They literally can pick-up anything that is going on within mini-map and react towards it(albeit not properly since they are still fresh in SC2) | ||
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silentdecay01
United States106 Posts
Nestea goes muta in gsl by impulse if u saw the off the record last week.... so this is not "nesteas" all in, as he does not mean for what he does to be a all in... Don't just watch one game and try to make a guide based of a unique situation that will not happen on the ladder often. User was warned for this post | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On May 21 2012 23:55 silentdecay01 wrote: Btw this is not nes teas build and he does not have a all in muta strat.....He only base traded that game last night because thats all he was able to do, toss pushed into his base sooner. Nestea goes muta in gsl by impulse if u saw the off the record last week.... so this is not "nesteas" all in, as he does not mean for what he does to be a all in... Don't just watch one game and try to make a guide based of a unique situation that will not happen on the ladder often. Don't just read the title of a thread and assume you know what you are talking about. He is not talking about an allin from nestea, he is talking about a standard build from nestea that incorporates 3base muta that BEATS the immortal 2base allin. | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
On May 21 2012 21:39 Corsica wrote: so how do you defend those 7-8 gate allins with like 32 probes? i just feel so scared without roaches If you see the Game between Nestea and Lure, you will know that he just made massive spine wall in the natural and went for a base trade with his muta/ling. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On May 21 2012 21:39 Corsica wrote: so how do you defend those 7-8 gate allins with like 32 probes? i just feel so scared without roaches If you see gas--no need for roaches If you there's no gas--you need roaches In either scenario you sac an overlord. If he has a bunch of gates--you need roaches. If he has a robo/stargate--you don't need roaches. Easy. | ||
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
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LordImmortala
Korea (South)41 Posts
No one would NOT get a roach warren when they see no expo gas.. | ||
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JBNZerg
Denmark21 Posts
The whole point is that the spire play is strong if the Protoss player goes for a strong tech based build (primarily robo, although Nestea made it work v. a stargate build as well). If you see an indication of a gate all-in, which can be a number of things, such as quick proxy pylons, only two gases, actually seeing the gateways or a ton of chronoboost spend on the forge and core, you don't do this. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13403 Posts
On May 21 2012 20:46 Teoita wrote: 6-7ish minutes i'd say. @poster above me: i honestly don't know i don't really use +1 zealot pressure, but what would happen if p went for +1 zealot with a void ray? You wouldn't need the void ray. 4 gate zealot has 2 builds into two timings. You can hit around 7 minutes if you go gate first, Yuffe style and off a normal FFE the 4 gate hits about 8 minutes with first warp in. If you go zealot void ray you hit at around 8:30 with first warp in on a longer map if you 4 gate and 8:00 with first warp in and a void ray to show up later if you go 3 gate. Alternatively, you can hit at the standard 8:30 with the void ray and have 2 zealot warp ins off of 3 gates which IMO is better and give you more options to follow up. The thing is you only need the void ray against roach openers, but then again if he masses lings to inefficiently keep his 3rd alive in the hopes of muta play then yeah, thats fine the void ray would kill the third. I think that the thing about this build is it seems like it really is metagaming. Proxy spire? I need to watch these games but this doesn't seem "solid". Like what if you get hit with a 7 gate. You die. Unless of course the ovie speed upgrade means that nestea is getting a full scout every game. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
 thanks for pointing it out I missed some up & down matches last night. | ||
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Fogetaboudit
United States232 Posts
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