EPT
. However, in an effort to improve my macro I've been following filtersc's thread:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787
and this build is fantastic for a Protoss version!
[G] PvZ Anti stephano style build by EmpireMista - Page 11
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SwampFox1474
United States4 Posts
. However, in an effort to improve my macro I've been following filtersc's thread:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787 and this build is fantastic for a Protoss version! | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On May 20 2012 01:41 StarBrift wrote: I don't think you understand what the point of the build is if you think you can trade units before the actual battle. The whole point is that if you spend money on more than 20 roaches you are most likely not going to afford the gas units you need to defend the push. Also if you stop drones at 60 vs this you won't afford mass spines in time either. The whole point of this build is that you need to start reacting to it about 3-4 minutes before it hits and it's very hard for a zerg to decide if they should be safe against this build or safe against a normal sentry heavy immortal push. I don't think you understand what I wrote, or you're trying to troll me. I made two separate points: 1) You can often simply overwhelm the Protoss at their wall. This is map dependent since it depends on how much surface area there is but it's generally doable on, e.g., Daybreak. But sometimes you can't, which leads to point 2: Even if you don't scout that they're doing this "build", a build like this isn't that hard to spot. If the Protoss hasn't expanded, then he's all-inning; you don't need to scout anything to determine that other than the fact that he doesn't have a third base. This point does not turn on trading before the final battle. If you have between 60 and 70 drones and you're maxed at 12 you will have enough bank to afford another army in three to four minutes (5700 to 7600 min, 1200-1600 gas (actually probably more gas -- I'm assuming you stay on four gases) and 50 to 60 additional larvae, take away some gas for further upgrades and tech and some minerals for additional hatcheries and spines; you can easily afford spines if you're mining approximately 2K minerals a minute). | ||
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NemesysTV
United States1088 Posts
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eGengar
4 Posts
Thanks a bunch! | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
What do you think about templar tech with this? I find colossus build too slow to reinforce, so after the first 3 or 4 switching to archon might be better? Edit : also wanted to note, one subtle thing you can do is occasionally move a probe to your third and build a pylon. The zerg will usually send some roach ling to shut down your "expansion". This can make them cocky about their advantage and less sure of the all in ( this is speculation on their thinking, but they seem to be more greedy and less ready) | ||
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Green Sun s Zenith
Canada85 Posts
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eXeRebeLLioN
Croatia12 Posts
I had a really hard time against Stephano style, but now Im crushing everyone  Got promoted tnx to this guide Keep it up ! :D | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/mstephano/b/317466122 (It's at 20:30) He seemed content knowing you were on 2 bases, seeing an immortal and a few sentries, and knowing your gas timings. He happily took a fourth and droned his face off. He shut down your warp prism harass for the most part but just seemed underprepared for your attack. I don't know if part of your plan for the warp prism harass was just to get him to make a lot more lings? Is it normal for zergs to play this much in the dark? Was it cockiness on his part (he was talking some friendly smack at the beginning) or something else I just wasn't picking up on? You pretty much moved across the map with a death ball and popped him in the mouth. As zerg, what exactly should I do if you sit on 2-base and max? I should drone up my third and then just max on roaches? I feel like you could be attacking at any time from 8 minutes to the 14 you move out at, any of which would be too risky to try and tech up. edit: after reading this thread in full, it seems like I should just go mutas via nerchio replay? | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
As long as you double-expand during/after the attack does a ton of damage, it can transition to a macro game, I think. I assume if I scout muta I go ahead and cannon up my bases before the move-out? He shouldn't be able to touch me before I leave my base, since I'd have blink and stalkers turtled in my base, so I just want to prevent a base trade scenario. | ||
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Borkbokbork
United States123 Posts
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niladorus
Greece116 Posts
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Shallot
United States58 Posts
First of all, it really seems like the key to this whole thing is doing solid damage with the WP. Every game where I was able to get a few drone kills and the zerg didn't react properly with queens and his roach positioning, the game was essentially over before I even pushed out with my army. Also, you mention hiding the colossus, but equally as important imo is hiding the robo as much as possible, because a suspicious player who switches to muta will just straight up kill you. Basically, once they finish their spire, it seems like you have about a 1 1/2-2 minute window to move out or you will lose. You might have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but what have you done in games where you thought your opponent was going max roach but then decided to spam a bunch of mutas instead? Sorry if this is a bad question. Thank you so much for posting this build Mista. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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ohampatu
United States1448 Posts
On May 31 2012 20:16 Shallot wrote: I started playing with this build yesterday (only diamond though, I still have some macro issues) but wanted to mention a couple things I noticed. First of all, it really seems like the key to this whole thing is doing solid damage with the WP. Every game where I was able to get a few drone kills and the zerg didn't react properly with queens and his roach positioning, the game was essentially over before I even pushed out with my army. Also, you mention hiding the colossus, but equally as important imo is hiding the robo as much as possible, because a suspicious player who switches to muta will just straight up kill you. Basically, once they finish their spire, it seems like you have about a 1 1/2-2 minute window to move out or you will lose. You might have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but what have you done in games where you thought your opponent was going max roach but then decided to spam a bunch of mutas instead? Sorry if this is a bad question. Thank you so much for posting this build Mista. I didn't get to see the nerchio replay. But yes, this doesn't seem to work very well against ling/muta builds. Esp 2 hatch muta. But 2 hatch muta has always been a good counter for quick 2 base/colo timings. From what I can tell, if you scout he is doing something other than stephano style, you should add like 5 more sentrys and take your third if the map allows it, similar to how MC beat Stephano at the Red Bull Lan. I think MC plays a very good econ style vs this type of play that can hold up to muta though. I appreciate the guide, but i just dont know if I have the scouting to beat muta switches. I really like MC's quick third base because then mutas aren't a huge issue, because I find quick 3 base with canons pretty much can negate muta openings. If you dont get that third base though muta openings just punish us so bad. Good Guide, if i scout 3 hatch that isn't going heavy gas i'll be sure to try and do it. | ||
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Pyloss
Germany1515 Posts
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craziekev
Canada61 Posts
Seems like it's a good idea if you can fit it in | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:19 Borkbokbork wrote: What stops the Zerg from base-trading with you? As in, couldn't he just wait for you to leave and own your 2 bases with mass roach? Zerg has about 9 buildings, you have about 30 | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On May 22 2012 03:49 quillian wrote: After trying it a bit I love this all in. What do you think about templar tech with this? I find colossus build too slow to reinforce, so after the first 3 or 4 switching to archon might be better? Edit : also wanted to note, one subtle thing you can do is occasionally move a probe to your third and build a pylon. The zerg will usually send some roach ling to shut down your "expansion". This can make them cocky about their advantage and less sure of the all in ( this is speculation on their thinking, but they seem to be more greedy and less ready) The number of Templar you can have at that time cannot handle roach, or burrowed roach. Also if you go Templar instead of Colossus you need more sentries than you would if you had gone Colossus. To be as efficient as a colossus you need about 3 or more templar, assuming the templar never die. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
On June 01 2012 11:06 Kornholi0 wrote: If you get that much at 14:30, what happens when he shows up at 12:30? how do you defend for 2 minutes before your actual stuff kicks in? You sit at your natural choke point, with cannons and sentries, and let his roaches funnel into your colossus lasers of death. Hey, has anybody here gotten a GG from a Zerg after beating them with this build? I've got none so far after like 4 games >:D | ||
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