EPT[G] PvZ - Small timing attack thread with VODs - Page 2
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scsnow
Slovenia515 Posts
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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teamamerica
United States958 Posts
finally either find a timing to punish them or reach hive safely and then -> mad qq about Stephano roaches (the ONE good timing that you can't just stop by ez mode some cannons) or qq about brood lord infestors. I think either Alej or Monk also commented along the same vein, toss players have been lazy. So if you just choose from a set of allins, don't be surprised when you start losing. Great guide btw. | ||
-eXalt
United States462 Posts
still very usefull to throw in an all in in a BoX after a few macro games, as most zergs will start playing too greedy. | ||
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Firefoxys
Netherlands9 Posts
These builds are fairly old and i personaly use a different one from desRow who has seen it on ladder alot from other korean protosses. Its a 4 gate+1 zealot push into a 7 gate blink +2 allin of 3 gas. Which is slightly different from other allins because of 1 extra gas and +2 which gives your push a bit more strenght and a higher stalker count because of the 3th gas here u go might be able to add this to your guide | ||
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Payson
United States394 Posts
Excellent guide! | ||
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HexSCII
Canada115 Posts
what about a +1 zealot atk and get double stargate as roaches are being forced to be made. A couple can be sent to 3rd while a couple can be sent to the nat. Just asking because I have had some success with it on the ladder. Mind if I post a replay of it? | ||
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ObliviousNA
United States535 Posts
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RiceAgainst
United States1849 Posts
Also, I like the music. Chrono Cross <3 | ||
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SeDuCeMuCh
Canada6 Posts
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mrsmiley
United States1 Post
User was warned for this post | ||
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Vaporak
70 Posts
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
On May 01 2012 07:47 xOny wrote: cool guide. one thing i've noticed in PvZ recently against good zergs, is that 2 base all ins / timings don't really work esp on maps where the zerg can scout your natural's gas easily (daybreak, cloud kingdom etc). they've practiced the 3 hatch no-gas opening soooo many times now that they're pretty solid at holding off any 2 base timings. still very usefull to throw in an all in in a BoX after a few macro games, as most zergs will start playing too greedy. The thing about Zerg end game is that Protoss players have yet to figure out a viable/non gimmicky way to combat the mass spine/BL/infestor/corruptor army that zerg can obtain past the 20 minute mark. What better proof for that than HerO's game vs Dimaga on Ohana in the NASL. HerO pretty much tried everything and mined out the map trying to crack Dima's defenses and just simply couldn't. This leads Protoss to stick to 2 base timings which is what historically have worked at the highest levels. | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
Cannot thank you enough Alej. | ||
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-eXalt
United States462 Posts
On May 01 2012 13:47 Mikelius wrote: The thing about Zerg end game is that Protoss players have yet to figure out a viable/non gimmicky way to combat the mass spine/BL/infestor/corruptor army that zerg can obtain past the 20 minute mark. What better proof for that than HerO's game vs Dimaga on Ohana in the NASL. HerO pretty much tried everything and mined out the map trying to crack Dima's defenses and just simply couldn't. This leads Protoss to stick to 2 base timings which is what historically have worked at the highest levels. Very misinformed post. Protoss players know how to deal with end game zerg compositions (mothership + archons, if you see mass spines just get more bases and get a super-army).. the problem is more getting to that point without being behind. 2 base timings have not worked out very well recently for Protoss players, again because Zergs know exactly how to react to most all timings now with their easily mapped-out 3 hatch no gas build. Without mothership though, yes, protoss has no way to deal with mass upgraded BL / corrupter / infestor. | ||
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Eifer
United States138 Posts
You can get 4 gates to warpin at 7:12 and the other three at 7:20 if you do an optimal version. I distinctly remember those numbers, thinking holy shit at the time. I'll try and find a replay. I think the reason is a difference in allocation of chrono boost. Just letting you know there are "better" versions. Hit slightly earlier with 9/10th the strength and +1 finishing at 8:00. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
I realise forge timing, the Zerg's opener and any early pressure will shift them a little, but ballparks would still be informative. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
The 7 gate zealot/stalker all-in I do quite often because it flat out wins practically all my games vs zerg and i'm a bit fed up off the macro games where you have to hit into a massive spine wall with broods otherwise. A few things which can be more efficient I think: - 2nd pylon should be before gate. Probe cut is bigger then neccesary and the gate is too early anyway otherwise since you can't afford cyber upon completion of gate with your timing anyway. - You should definately probe up to 36 and not stop at 32, those 4 extra probes pay off themselves before you start warping in basically and just give you a more solid economy, there is absolutely no reason not to get them as they mine at full efficiency. Putting 2 probes in each geyser after getting 150 is recommended for sure, the difference is really minor but it just seems to work out with a better mineral/gas ratio then. Too gas heavy is always worse then too mineral heavy afterall with these rushes and you want to have no resources unspent. - Personal preference: I get 2 stalkers out of the first gate. This means I won't have all my gates ready before the first warpin but unit wise it evens out as i have 1 more unit. The extra stalker makes it easier to secure the proxy pylon and makes the build much safer against an unexpected all-in from the zerg (though you would generally only do this build after scouting fast third, sometimes your probe dies before knowing for sure or they even fake something). - Ow and the guide for the 7 gate states 3 CB on warpgate tech but that should just be the full 5 really, which i think is in the VOD too Small detail in general, you shouldn't be maynarding probes with a FFE build, this is such a common mistake I see. When the expo finishes your main isn't up to 22 probes yet anyway so you just waypoint both nexusses to the expansion and maynard nothing, in fact usually you even have to send 1 or 2 probes to main first still before sending all new probes to natural. Anyway most of these things are small nitpickings, in general this guide is quite good and useful for setting benchmarks. Zergs should get their roach warren earlier then stephano timings in other threads suggest really for example. | ||
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