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On April 15 2012 08:01 JZappa wrote:Show nested quote +I just heard from someone that tank in siege mode can kill zergling with one shot only if it's upgraded at least once. I think this could be very important, but at the same time, I don't see the reason to upgrade twice if upgrading once is all I need. Because your +1 attack gets nullified the second the zerg researches +1 armor.
Stop spreading bullshit
Here is how it is, if you research +1 ground armor as zerg before the terran has +1 vehicle weapons a zergling survives a tank blast with 1HP left. When the terran researches +1 vehicle weapons he is guaranteed to oneshot zerglings regardless of what armor upgrades the zergling has since the siege tank does 38 damage to normal when in siege mode.
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for me as a zerg upgrades are key in any match up. Having that carapace could mean that my zerglings will reach the marines and attack at least once instead of dying short before reaching any marine. Then the terran tanks hit his marines as well and the whole thing snowballs into my favour. Same goes for attack upgrades, especially in zvp
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On April 15 2012 08:01 JZappa wrote:Show nested quote +I just heard from someone that tank in siege mode can kill zergling with one shot only if it's upgraded at least once. I think this could be very important, but at the same time, I don't see the reason to upgrade twice if upgrading once is all I need. Because your +1 attack gets nullified the second the zerg researches +1 armor.
Except Overlords & other air units aren't covered by that +1, more upgrades means you can get faster tech snipes from drops, not all units scale as +1 vs. -1, etc.
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Upgrades are necessary. Especially when fight with maxed out armies. You can't just add in more units, the upgrades make them more effective.
Also in certain situations upgrades are extremely effective. +1 zealots kill 0 armor lings in 2 hits rather than 3. Roaches work in the exact same fashion. You can also be fancy, and counter this with +1 armor.
This is an uncommon example, but in ZvT, if I am 4 raxed, then I can go for a +1 roach armor + speed killing blow. Marines have to shoot a roach 29 times before it dies. With +1 armor, they have to shoot it 37 times; that's 8 more attacks.
A general way of thinking about it is, If a unit has a low damage value, and high attack speed, armor on units is very effective. If a unit has a high damage, low attack speed, the armor is nearly worthless. Attack upgrades are almost always effective especially for units en masse, such as marines.
I personally love getting early attack and armor upgrades going. It makes for a good late game.
Certain scenarios make upgrades essential, and also just have them makes your 200/200 more effective when you cannot reinforce any longer.
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It might not be as obvious with marines (which are small, fast when stimmed and have a decent range) but for the zerg the upgrades are important because all their ground units (apart from the hydra, which has plenty of other disadvantages) have short attack ranges, and roaches are quite big as well.
While it's obviously optimal to have your whole army attacking during the battle (this is where positioning becomes vital) it's really hard to have all or even most of your roaches attacking at the same time, unless there is a huge flat area or there are no force fields (or unless your opponent does something not-so-smart, such as blinking right in middle of your roaches). This means that when it comes to damage output, upgraded attacks result in higher damage output than those extra roaches stuck in the back of your army you could have gotten with the resources you used for upgrades.
Higher damage output is also helpful when you want to make sure that every attack counts. Kiting and chasing kiting units, for example.
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There have been a couple of tournament games where an upgrade advantage makes a huge difference. There's Adelscott vs. IMMVP game 2 from the TSL3, where Adelscott used dual chronoboosted forges to get a bunch of gateway units to 2/2 and outmuscle MVP.
There's that infamous TLO game against MarineKing (wasn't it?) recently, where he just drowned him in this unending tide of 2/2 zerglings. (Upgrades make an absolutely huge difference in zergling vs. marine.)
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On April 15 2012 08:10 Tulkas25 wrote:
A 0/0 marine against an 0/3 zealot does 2 damage if he is unstimed...that alone as an example should make you realise the importance of upgrades.
it might seem a good way to go for more barracks etc but actually when you reach a maxed sized army and u need to engage and your upgrades are 0/0 and your opponents are 3/3 you will get rolled so hard that no matter how many barracks you have it wont matter.Upgrades are really crucial in sc2 especially the longer the game goes on and dont let anyone tell you otherwise.And anyway their cost for their actual contribution to your army is really low so no real reason to not incorporate them in your play.
Stim doesn't do any extra damage per hit.
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Upgrades might not be very noticeable when you and your opponent are getting them at similar times, but if you forget or ignore them, you will lose games because of it. When your army and your opponents army is similar in size (for example when you are maxed out at 200/200) upgrade differences have a significant influence.
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EPT
