|
On April 05 2012 16:37 HammerSC2 wrote:
A lot has gone on since I was last on lol. You guys can say its not viable, the order is not good, should 1Rax FE... I win a lot with it. I scout. Sometimes I have to change the order of things to deal with what I scout. Sometimes I cap the refinery of opponent, or delay starport or make 2nd bunker, or pump non-stop marines... the build works up through Masters. End of story. Cheers!
To me, it feels that the only time this would work extensively well is when you are simply better than your opponent, as a sort of 'troll' build, if you understand what I'm saying. While it may be that you beat masters/etc with it, there just seems a better alternative that you could be using, and that you would be doing better with that alternative.
For example, Jjakji a- often uses weird builds to catch players off guard, and b- is wayyyyyyyyyy better than mana (esp cause mana's in school and has been playing fairly poorly recently.
Good build to have, but it's success stems more from you just being better than the people you're playing rather than it being a 'good' BO.
EDIT- Another 'troll' build order is Nex first in PvP. It can work in GM/High Masters (Grubby showed us), but Grubby was so much better than the person he was playing.
|
mech is absurdly trending since a lot of Terrans struggle in TvP and TvZ.
The reasons might be completely different -but either way mech gets attention.
Be it a timing- a defensive turtle style or a complete allin...
|
I've been using the Jjaki version of this build for a couple of days and i must say it is very effective. Low masters on EU for reference.
|
On April 05 2012 08:26 Sated wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Iron Squid Spoilers] +Jjakji used a build like this to take a game off MaNa in the Iron Squid tournament. I don't think the people calling it non-viable know what they're talking about...
+ Show Spoiler +
Jjakji build incorporates earlier harras (this game, it was the fastest clock banshee possible ), which is different from what the OP does. You can see that Jjakji was leading resources lost 1150 to 50 before the engagement, and that he forced mana to keep both observers at home, delaying scouting of the expansion and composition.
Doing things like this to throw off the Protoss and following with a timing push is how I`ve seen this style working at pro level. I can't see why skipping the harass phase (or not throwing mind games, like leading with 1rax-FE) would make the build any better. I don`t think it makes it any safer, for instance.
|
Wow
Such a spirit of positivity.
Its a build fairly well presented. Why would anyone give a fuck if 111 is unbeatable when this thread is not about it? If it is unbeatable maybe here is another build that can do well against protoss thus exposing more ways that they suck.
Moreover there is a lot of negative theory crafting ... what happened to evidence?
(Especially aimed at any and all non constructive comments
|
You're doing it wrong OP, I use the same composition but I open different and no I'm not sharing.
As others have said, you're not harassing at all, the protoss flies an obs in and will see the early armory and know right off the bat for the rest of the game what is up. He'll just macro since you're just sitting in your base chronoing w/e he wants.
I honestly can't believe you're winning with this like others have said which leads me to believe that toss still are up in arms about how to exactly respond to this build.
|
On April 05 2012 16:37 HammerSC2 wrote:
A lot has gone on since I was last on lol. You guys can say its not viable, the order is not good, should 1Rax FE... I win a lot with it. I scout. Sometimes I have to change the order of things to deal with what I scout. Sometimes I cap the refinery of opponent, or delay starport or make 2nd bunker, or pump non-stop marines... the build works up through Masters. End of story. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing the build. But I think the build need to worked on like adding some stuff like the hard counters, soft counters, scouting, maps etc... I like this build, at least it works for me =D
Also, I have a question about upgrade, you said only upgrade Cloak and Shield, so how bout Armory upgrades, not possible ?
|
On April 05 2012 22:09 shivver wrote:
You're doing it wrong OP, I use the same composition but I open different and no I'm not sharing.
As others have said, you're not harassing at all, the protoss flies an obs in and will see the early armory and know right off the bat for the rest of the game what is up. He'll just macro since you're just sitting in your base chronoing w/e he wants.
I honestly can't believe you're winning with this like others have said which leads me to believe that toss still are up in arms about how to exactly respond to this build.
Lol, k buds. Another cranky nerd 
I like Protoss scouting the armory. I almost always take it out when raven pops, and then quickly lay down 2 starports and start banshee production. I often win because they are responding more to a thor based build and not as much vs air. You have your build, I have mine. I know you can open 1rax fe etc, but that is still vulnerable to lots of different play from protoss...
|
On April 06 2012 01:29 foxj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 16:37 HammerSC2 wrote:
A lot has gone on since I was last on lol. You guys can say its not viable, the order is not good, should 1Rax FE... I win a lot with it. I scout. Sometimes I have to change the order of things to deal with what I scout. Sometimes I cap the refinery of opponent, or delay starport or make 2nd bunker, or pump non-stop marines... the build works up through Masters. End of story. Cheers! Thanks for sharing the build. But I think the build need to worked on like adding some stuff like the hard counters, soft counters, scouting, maps etc... I like this build, at least it works for me =D Also, I have a question about upgrade, you said only upgrade Cloak and Shield, so how bout Armory upgrades, not possible ?
You're welcome! I add things that counter, as well as scout. Those vids are a bit older and not necessarily exactly what I do. I often produce vikings in response to early air play or change initial defense based on what I'm scouting. You can def do Armory upgrades, but the point of the build is to max-out as quick as possible, (and I like to hit before too many ht's are on the field or 2/2 is finished for protoss). Good luck!
|
Gotta give it you you Hammer...this build does work. It just throws dimensions at the Toss that they are not used to dealing with...much nicer than the standard bio play. I have been doing 1 rax fe, cc first, or 2 rax pressures with marginal success. Tried this build 3 times yesterday, won all 3. Everybody that i played listed the reasons that it was a crap build afterwards...and to them all I had to say was "then you should have beaten it".
Was also real cool to meet you on ladder the same day that I had printed and was studying your build order! That was a gg, and congrats on getting into Masters!
Real interested to talk to you about TvZ!!
|
|
|
I saw the Day9 episode a little while back! I've been doing the build since last spring, so it's cool to see pro's using variations and similar compositions lately  Thanks for sharing the link!
|
On April 06 2012 02:03 Belial154 wrote:
Gotta give it you you Hammer...this build does work. It just throws dimensions at the Toss that they are not used to dealing with...much nicer than the standard bio play. I have been doing 1 rax fe, cc first, or 2 rax pressures with marginal success. Tried this build 3 times yesterday, won all 3. Everybody that i played listed the reasons that it was a crap build afterwards...and to them all I had to say was "then you should have beaten it".
Was also real cool to meet you on ladder the same day that I had printed and was studying your build order! That was a gg, and congrats on getting into Masters!
Real interested to talk to you about TvZ!!
Thanks man, that awesome that you've already had some success with the build! Feel free to add me in game hammer#218.
|
Last time I checked, 1-1-1 was when a Terran went barracks factory starport on one base.
|
On April 06 2012 02:27 NoisyNinja wrote:
Last time I checked, 1-1-1 was when a Terran went barracks factory starport on one base.
Haha ya well, things change. That's what it started out as, and evolved into this. Name stuck
|
This sort of play isnt very viable in Tvp tbh.The success you have seen may be due to the fact that it was many players first time really dealing with the style, but it only took a few games for most to learn how to deal with it. Ive encountered it myself a few times now, and the turtle mech style of terran is playing right into the greatest strength of a late game Protoss. Protoss can easily take a super fast 3rd base, and tech up the entire tree before a 14 minute push on the map begins, and even begin the 4th base meanwhile. Feedback and Immortals are ridiculously good vs that sort of composition, and the templars will be able to use the full arsenal of feedbacks due to the lack of sieged tanks or emp. PDDs, Ravens, Half of the Thors, and Banshees are just going to melt, especially since most of them will have full energy. So lets say that the protoss stops a push or engages you outside your base and forces you to wait for the army again, this is where a protoss is going to macro faster on more economy and simply overwhelm this build.
I feel like if you incorporated cloaked banshees early and often as a form of harassment, and perhaps a wave or 2 of hellions, the end result of this build would be much more sucessfull, perhaps something to think about at the least
|
I saw this A-while ago on the Bnet forums.. Tried it, it worked, it was easy, its a nice build, gratz on making it, but I wouldnt replace standard builds / plays with this. I would however, if I was a player good enough to, throw this build at a toss if I won round one in a tournament thats bo3.
Tldr
Wouldnt replace standard TvP with this, still its nice to know and have your builds.
Maybe you can use it against some 'retard' toss who keeps pawning you on ladder lol.
|
On April 06 2012 02:58 MafiaCheese wrote:This sort of play isnt very viable in Tvp tbh.The success you have seen may be due to the fact that it was many players first time really dealing with the style, but it only took a few games for most to learn how to deal with it. Ive encountered it myself a few times now, and the turtle mech style of terran is playing right into the greatest strength of a late game Protoss. Protoss can easily take a super fast 3rd base, and tech up the entire tree before a 14 minute push on the map begins, and even begin the 4th base meanwhile. Feedback and Immortals are ridiculously good vs that sort of composition, and the templars will be able to use the full arsenal of feedbacks due to the lack of sieged tanks or emp. PDDs, Ravens, Half of the Thors, and Banshees are just going to melt, especially since most of them will have full energy. So lets say that the protoss stops a push or engages you outside your base and forces you to wait for the army again, this is where a protoss is going to macro faster on more economy and simply overwhelm this build. I feel like if you incorporated cloaked banshees early and often as a form of harassment, and perhaps a wave or 2 of hellions, the end result of this build would be much more sucessfull, perhaps something to think about at the least
You're not understanding the purpose of the build! It's to do a timing attack with a massive banshee hit on his natural, pull him out of position and attack accordingly. And you know you can micro even vs HT's! I have games where I don't win the initial battle and go on to win the games all the time. People who comment without trying the build have no authority A few recent examples:
http://drop.sc/154386
http://drop.sc/154385
http://drop.sc/154386
|
On April 05 2012 22:09 shivver wrote:
You're doing it wrong OP, I use the same composition but I open different and no I'm not sharing.
As others have said, you're not harassing at all, the protoss flies an obs in and will see the early armory and know right off the bat for the rest of the game what is up. He'll just macro since you're just sitting in your base chronoing w/e he wants.
I honestly can't believe you're winning with this like others have said which leads me to believe that toss still are up in arms about how to exactly respond to this build.
God, nice post. Nice sharing of your own build, you know how to imrprove it, but you don't even try to help us with your post. You are probably a pro , so if you share your knowledge you are afraid you are going to get demolished easy on tournaments. Take care friend, you don't want to lose your prizes!
|
On April 06 2012 03:09 ThisisRaider wrote:
I saw this A-while ago on the Bnet forums.. Tried it, it worked, it was easy, its a nice build, gratz on making it, but I wouldnt replace standard builds / plays with this. I would however, if I was a player good enough to, throw this build at a toss if I won round one in a tournament thats bo3.
Tldr
Wouldnt replace standard TvP with this, still its nice to know and have your builds.
Maybe you can use it against some 'retard' toss who keeps pawning you on ladder lol.
Ya it's great for laddering, but shouldn't be your only build etc! Thanks for your input
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
