EPTwho know what they're talking about
I play mech EXCLUSIVELY every game in TvT and TvZ and I am a mid masters player on the NA server, so I KNOW what I am talking about
thats me: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2648816/1/Wretch/
[G] Lyyna’s TvP : How to mech every protoss cry - Page 9
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XquisiteWretch
United States77 Posts
I play mech EXCLUSIVELY every game in TvT and TvZ and I am a mid masters player on the NA server, so I KNOW what I am talking about thats me: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2648816/1/Wretch/ | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
Also, i believe that you didn't even read the guide, considering some things you're saying. You're just reacting badly to 'TvP mech' | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On March 25 2012 06:55 XquisiteWretch wrote: I play mech EXCLUSIVELY every game in TvT and TvZ and I am a mid masters player on the NA server, so I KNOW what I am talking about thats me: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2648816/1/Wretch/ ...300 games and 400 points is a bit low masters, to be a nit-picking-prick. | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
edit : the 08-03 game vs OiTms shows some fight versus a maxed carriers/MS army, and some zealot/heavy air army 14-03 vs MlTTIgr shows an airball with a balanced mix of carriers and VR ( in number ) and a MS | ||
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XquisiteWretch
United States77 Posts
is like talking about original play in DOTA because you're good at LOL standard play. I dont know what this means...? I did read the guide, the title of this thread is kind of misleading... Im not sure what you should call this thread but what youre describing isnt really mech... It seems like youre incorporating almost every terran unit into the build, which means your upgrades dont stack very well and you spend ALOT on infastructure (factories/starports) Tech switching as Terran is just not very practicalor very cost efficient. How to handle mass air? So basically,if he’s getting mass air, go for lots of ravens,some BC, some thors, and keep a good tanks/ghosts counts. I mean, this is just silly... how in the world do you have the gas to produce all that? and none of those units are good against void rays, which he is sure to incorporate... HT feedback the heck out of that army as well... Let me tell you my main concern with meching in TvP: It essentially comes down to a few protoss units that just DEVASTATE mech/sky terran. 1. Immortals are HARD counters to thors and tanks, and can only be defeated by superb ghost micro, which is even harder now since the EMP nerf 2. High Templar feedback Thors, BC's, ghosts, ravens and banshees, especially crucial against ravens, banshees and ghosts considering they can be one shot. Storm is good against every unit in the terran arsenal as well 3. Void Rays are the ultimate mech killer, absolutely crushing thors and obviously tanks and hellions as well. BCs, banshees and ravens all suck against voids as well. Only good counter is adding vikings but even those are not that great of a counter | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
There is no sudden tech switch or try to get everything at once. Everything is smooth and calculated, you build your core mech army in midgame,getting only +armor uppgrade (+attack isn't that useful vs toss), then switching LATE to air (and that's not a total switch , just add some air to replace stuff like hellions) while getting double upp on air. . . No sudden tech switch, you do just smoothly unlock more and more stuff as long as the game goes forwar How in the world do i have the gas for all that? Well, in the same way the protoss as the gas to do his mass air ball. Seriously, don't assume that it's like 2 bases T vs 6 bases toss. and mass VR is shredded by ghosts + thor + HSM AOE. And HT feedback? Think about some units in our army . . well . ghosts . . OH WELL , TANKS! And if he's going air, there'll be nearly nothing on the ground so your tanks and hellions will shred templars Immortals hard counter tanks and thors without support. As long as the terran has like 4-5 ghosts and/or hellions/banshees support, immortals become one of the worst units vs mech. There is a lots of replays of protoss trying to do mass immortal... and even 'just' going mass hellions is usually enough for these. And a ghost can make like 3 immortals useless High templars . . seriously. first of all, feedbacking ALL these energy units would requires an impossible micro. And you're supposing that the T is never emp'ing or focus firing with tanks . . VR get kill thors and BC in little number, but vikings/ghosts destroy them with some thors tanking damage. In large number, thors, BC, ghosts,and ravens destroys these Seriously guy, your mech flaws seems to assume that the terran do not micro versus a 500 APM toss, has 2 bases versus 6, and isn't researching any uppgrade like HSM or ghost cloak . . watch some replays. These flaws are the most commonly 'treated' in my games | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
Seriously man. You are not even countering our arguments. I said that goody has not quit playing mech. I showed you why. I showed you replays of him still meching. Then you ask what the shit you are making up? You are wrong, but you don't even admit it. Then you pick at some small part of my post and start countering it by listing a bunch of upgrade and patch changes. That has nothing to do with whether Goody quit playing or not. You are the one who needs to act more maturely. I'm not in gold, so, yeah. Once again, you're wrong. On March 25 2012 04:57 XquisiteWretch wrote: He was confused, I never said goody quit, I said he quit mech in TvP... Also you need to calm down crocodile, slinging insults for no reason at all... how is it that I got "warned" for making a goofy joke that wasnt insulting anyone but this guy is throwing the f bomb out there and personally attacking people and not getting warned? double standard? No, I was not confused. You are the one who is confused here. Goody did not quit [mech]. Also if you think someone deserves a warning or ban, don't spam it here. Go ask a moderator or ask in a more appropriate thread. mean, this is just silly... how in the world do you have the gas to produce all that? and none of those units are good against void rays, which he is sure to incorporate... HT feedback the heck out of that army as well... How does Protoss get all that gas? Vikings are 2:1 mineral ratio. Voids suck vs Vikings o.o Phoenix are 3:2 mineral ratio. Carriers are gas heavy as well. Also people keep thinking that anything with an energy bar is countered by HTs. HTs can do well against them, but it doesn't mean they counter. Even thors with 200 energy getting feedback'd by HTs... you won't insta die. In that situation, bring many many SCVs -- his army will be very weak. Flying units, stack and emp 1 or 2 time to get rid of all energy. Banshees, cloak and decloak. How in the world does the Protoss get all that gas for HT? Also, turrets. Which are much better than the 1.5 more costly canons. On March 25 2012 06:55 XquisiteWretch wrote: I play mech EXCLUSIVELY every game in TvT and TvZ and I am a mid masters player on the NA server, so I KNOW what I am talking about thats me: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2648816/1/Wretch/ You probably don't have a better (by much at least) understanding of mech if you don't even know of goody's more recent mech games as well as gorapadong's. | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
@iamjeffrey Check out Lyyna's replays. There's at least one in there where he deals with that style quite effectively. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
There are a couple of things to say: - Goodys style is pretty funny in every matchup and in theory he shouldn't win in any of them. TvP mech is the hardest to figure out properly so its pretty natural that he has the most difficulties there. - Goody switched from TvP to PvP because his bio TvP was even worse compared to his mech. (I think he even plays PvT now in some cups) - 450 is not mid masters, if you don't count the inactive people you are pretty much among the lowest 10 people in your division. Everyone who doesn't like Lyynas style should check out the replay from Breach. Its really good, and there are a lot of opportunities to make it even stronger. And it doesn't rely on turtling 50 minutes (but is very capable of being on par with the Protoss during every period of the game if you use your units correctly). | ||
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
on Entombed(45min long): http://drop.sc/141600 on Metalo(28min long): http://drop.sc/141601 First game i tried to max on most cost efficent units with alot of expos and second game i smelled his mech play and went for aggresion. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
keep it up | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On March 25 2012 16:47 Yamulo wrote: Really hope this motivates more terrans to play mech because PvT/TvP has stayed kind of stagnant for the entirety of sc2. I mean some people dabbled in mech before, but it never really became the most popular style. Just saying it would be cool to have more paths for the match up. They won't. But this works well regardless. Its so much fun though. | ||
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Also would like to see a link added to Wardens guide (and maybe you should also include his BO for 111 within a spoiler). As you mentioned yourself already there's still a lot of work to do (formatting to make it look more appealing). Also would like to know your specific mech style in TvZ  | ||
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HunterAMG
Colombia29 Posts
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
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Zarent
109 Posts
On March 25 2012 05:09 Lyyna wrote: Basically, With the hellion/air part of your army, you're REALLY mobile in defense even on a lots of bases. On less bases, it's even easier because you can just abuse some tanks spread and simcity. Faust gave another good answer : if he commits to hard to his harass, just say 'fucking kill him'. He can't kill you with his whole army, so with only half an army . . Another option is to do that defensively : set a trap around your attack base, and leapfrog. You traded supplys and addons for an army of stalkers sensor towerds allows you to do that without getting backstabbed . It also allows you to judge how much tanks you need to unsiege,and to have them in your base before the stalker does too much damage. Basically, going towards mass stalkers vs a tank-based army (assisted by air, including ravens,and thors,and ghosts) is like going mutalisk in ZvT : you gain good harass ability, but you just can't stand a direct fight [ Hellions, again, don't trade cost efficiently with blink microed stalkers. And you won't have enough banshees that you'll be wanting to use them for defense against ~15 stalkers blinking in. And in terms of if you move out to go fucking kill me? That's not how mech works, sadly. I can and -will- delay you at your front to force you to siege up and leapfrog across with your tanks, which'll give me the time to pick off a few key things (armory comes to mind as well as tech labs) before blinking back down and coming back to engage from the opposite side with those stalkers in time for when you want to kill me. Secondly, I'd hardly think that you can afford to try to engage in a baserace with me. I could and should have expanded vertically across my side of the map such that, if/when you decide to attempt to kill off all my tech in my main, I will still have two nexuses worth of economy far away from my main. Meanwhile, however many blink stalkers I want to devote will be gutting your base and disrupting production, as well as picking off any reinforcements. From there, as long as I trade in any manner of efficiency, your army will eventually be whittled down. And thats the core difference between Stalkers and mutas. In ZvT, mutalisks can be counted on to be shut down by a handful of marines or missile turrets spaced effectively, and then they're not worth much in a fight. But a good ~15 stalkers isn't an entire investment of a mid/late game army, nor is is worthless in a fight when it eventually occurs. Also, I frankly laugh at you if you think that you're going to get a full legion of tanks, with banshees -and- ravens -and- thors -and- ghosts without Protoss having an equally ridiculous deathball army. | ||
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McTeazy
Canada297 Posts
How would you deal with blink harass? or even better double immortal warp prism drops? double immortal would snipe those tech labs SO fast... The way to play against mech in every match up is to just pick them apart at the edges and expand a lot though. I think the main reasons people would dislike this style is because typically a straight up fight with a mech army is suicide after a certain point, but a protoss on lots of gas would likely be able to trade pretty evenly with you, it's just that protoss isn't used to being allowed to just take 10 gas and mass carrier/voidray/archon. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On March 26 2012 15:31 McTeazy wrote: I kind of share the opinion of the guy above me. How would you deal with blink harass? or even better double immortal warp prism drops? double immortal would snipe those tech labs SO fast... The way to play against mech in every match up is to just pick them apart at the edges and expand a lot though. I think the main reasons people would dislike this style is because typically a straight up fight with a mech army is suicide after a certain point, but a protoss on lots of gas would likely be able to trade pretty evenly with you, it's just that protoss isn't used to being allowed to just take 10 gas and mass carrier/voidray/archon. and that's why noone has ever carrier/voidray/archon this composition and talking about it being good vs what Lyyna is doing is just theorycrafting, while what Lyyna is doing vs whatever Protoss can throw at him has proofen to be efficient | ||
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