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@Zarent : with sensors towers, i see you coming with your stalkers, so by the time they blink up, there is banshees,hellions,and a raven on the cliff starting to fire,with a few tanks on the way. Basically hellions with proper micro handle stalkers really well, so with banshees in pdd,this is ridiculously easy. And if the stalker's number is too high,i'll just wait my tanks to engage. And the longer it lasts, the more BC and raven i'll get . . .
If i choose to attack your army, i can just choose to set a trap for your stalkers as soon as i see them retreat , remember i can track with sensor towers and my mass orbitals
Considering your others statements amd McTeazy's one, i think than like some others people, you didn't watch any replays and just react to "Mech TvP", assuming my style is some 2 bases blind turtle
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I think everyone should consider playing mech in all matchups because mech wants gas it doesn't want minerals why is that important you ask. Well you can "abuse the imba macro mechanic terran has" and because of that you don't need workers you only need some scvs to mine gas which in late game are gonna be 9/15 or something in those numbers. The other 2 races don't have that advantage they need workers to get minerals. This leads to another thing you will have bigger late game army than any other race and the most efficient army in the game.
So from now on every terran goal should be to reach late game and just dominate opponents. If you defend well and don't do stupid fights you will win no matter what even if they base race you. I think this trend will soon spread like Seals creep and pro gamers will start to see how better mech is.
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This is excellent, as amech player I would love to see players talk about it more. Keep the discussion up guys and girls!
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Interesting note on the Battlecruisers/Banshees and a focus on sniping obs to make cloaked banshees effective. I mean, this guide is more properly titled Turtle Terran or Mech/Air Terran (Airmech?)
-BC. As much as possible -Ravens. These dudes are what make protoss air bad, and what makes BC powerful. No More Stalkers, No More Void Rays, No More Carriers. At least 4 of them. -Ghosts . Not too much (15 is too much). Getting like 6-8 is OK , as EMP is an AOE skill . . so you don’t need to mass ghosts to EMP everything -Tanks. Your core units. Basically, you mass them during mid games, so you should have more than 10 tanks. Keeping them alive is the key -Thors. Just a few for tanking and obs sniping, and because they’re still really good -Hellions. These poors guys are here to die and be replaced, but it’s always good to have some.
-Banshees and vikings : Ok, so basically BC are better in most situations ,especially with ravens , but sometimes you can get them (not enough gas, cant afford to sac supply or wait for BC to come out , forgetting fusion core like a retard,etc), so you’ll have to get these. Vikings aren’t that bad versus protoss air, and banshees are really good in every situation. 1. As much as possible, not mech 2. At least 4 of non-mechanical units. 3. 6-8 of nonmechanical units 4. First mech unit, core units 5. Just a few mech units, used for obs sniping and some army strength 6. Your throwaway trade mass zealot mech unit. Mech.
Non-mech, Nonmech, Nonmech, Mech, Mech, Mech. Kinda even, I'd say?
-Banshees. They’re the key,why? because as long as you snipe obs with thors, you can’t LOOSE a battle. You literally can't "loose" a battle. You can lose a battle, you can be ground into nothing by superior forces, and you can suffer defeats in battle. You can loosen shoelaces, loose the dogs, and play loose. Making this word all caps makes the spelling mistake an eyesore, but with an easy correction, your guide will look all that much more polished.
Well, concluding with that help wouldn't be all so good. So I will say, I'm a masters Protoss that dies to this once in a while (Usually with more PFs). The strength is of the strategy is the rarity of the strategy. Gotta refocus my mind from defending drops and building to max and focus on taking bases and picking my counter (Usually mass air and mass gateways just in case I can punch a big enough hole in his defenses). Good luck, Terrans. I don't find this style fun at all, but you may.
EDIT: As I think more about this, Mech might have some validity since it instantly conjures in your mind a turtly style, a focus on your opponent having the wrong composition of units at max and/or inferior upgrades, and skipping earlygame/midgame in terms of potential aggression and weakness.
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On March 26 2012 19:38 Danglars wrote:Interesting note on the Battlecruisers/Banshees and a focus on sniping obs to make cloaked banshees effective. I mean, this guide is more properly titled Turtle Terran or Mech/Air Terran (Airmech?) Show nested quote +-BC. As much as possible -Ravens. These dudes are what make protoss air bad, and what makes BC powerful. No More Stalkers, No More Void Rays, No More Carriers. At least 4 of them. -Ghosts . Not too much (15 is too much). Getting like 6-8 is OK , as EMP is an AOE skill . . so you don’t need to mass ghosts to EMP everything -Tanks. Your core units. Basically, you mass them during mid games, so you should have more than 10 tanks. Keeping them alive is the key -Thors. Just a few for tanking and obs sniping, and because they’re still really good -Hellions. These poors guys are here to die and be replaced, but it’s always good to have some.
-Banshees and vikings : Ok, so basically BC are better in most situations ,especially with ravens , but sometimes you can get them (not enough gas, cant afford to sac supply or wait for BC to come out , forgetting fusion core like a retard,etc), so you’ll have to get these. Vikings aren’t that bad versus protoss air, and banshees are really good in every situation. 1. As much as possible, not mech 2. At least 4 of non-mechanical units. 3. 6-8 of nonmechanical units 4. First mech unit, core units 5. Just a few mech units, used for obs sniping and a little main army incorporation 6. Your throwaway trade mass zealot mech unit. Non-mech, Nonmech, Nonmech, Mech, Mech, Mech. Kinda even, I'd say? Show nested quote +-Banshees. They’re the key,why? because as long as you snipe obs with thors, you can’t LOOSE a battle. You literally can't "loose" a battle. You can lose a battle, you can be ground into nothing by superior forces, and you can suffer defeats in battle. You can loosen shoelaces, loose the dogs, and play loose. Making this word all caps makes the spelling mistake an eyesore, but with an easy correction, your guide will look all that much more polished. Well, concluding with that help wouldn't be all so good. So I will say, I'm a masters Protoss that dies to this once in a while (Usually with more PFs). The strength is of the strategy is the rarity of the strategy. Gotta refocus my mind from defending drops and building to max and focus on taking bases and picking my counter (Usually mass air and mass gateways just in case I can punch a big enough hole in his defenses). Good luck, Terrans. I don't find this style fun at all, but you may.
Quote from the OP (about lategame):
Usually i do have 3 barracks, 2 reactored fact, 5 techlabbed fact, and 2 techlabbed starports. So just add 3 techlabbed starport, fusion core, and . . . let’s the game begin ! Go and figure what he will be producing most. Of course it is not pure "only Mech units", people whine about Broodlord/Infestor(Corruptor) all the time, when over 50% of the Zergs army is in basic units such as roaches/blings and lings in all of those games, apart from the "one in i a million" stalemates. This is really not about word picking. And if you do it, do it right and read what is written in the section "attributes" of those units: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Banshee http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Viking http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battlecruiser http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Raven_(Unit) + Show Spoiler +
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high templar, zealot, stalker
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On March 26 2012 21:54 Fossa wrote: high templar, zealot, stalker
I'm so hungry..
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On March 26 2012 21:54 Fossa wrote: high templar, zealot, stalker
theory crafting, theory crafting, theory crafting
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Nice guide ! I'm terran master and I would like to contribute to this guide. I 200% agree with what you explain.
First of all, I basically have the same thinking about going mech in every matchup, especially versus protoss for many reasons you explained before. Also, a lot of protoss don't know how to react properly to those uncommon strategies.
There are many stuff to discuss about mech play vs protoss. In my opinion, PURE mech (i mean 100% factory units) is not always effective, you need ghost to kill protoss.
My BO may change depending of maps, but i always use early cloaked banshees to contain protoss at home and force him observers. It delays a lot protoss tech, economy and allows you to scout him easily. The mid and end-game is basically the same as you explained, with banshee harrass and big 200 supply mech army. For end game, if your push failed, i use camping and nuke harrass to kill protoss. In the end, this is patience game ^_^
For people interested in going mech-based play versus protoss, i advise to check this : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=299607 AND this one too, but i use it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=268023
For replays/advices/chatting about mech add nBǂLloyd#640 on bnet europe. I would be glad to help =)
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Thank you so much. I've been trying to think outside the box myself a little against Protoss as a result of the tendency to slip into the MMMG/V army composition. I did try and mech vs P for a while but at my level(Platinum), improvising with build orders isn't my strong point. I can see myself having a lot of fun with this as I adore mech in the other two match-ups :D.
Going to review your replays for a better understanding & have bookmarked this thread.
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On March 26 2012 16:36 Lyyna wrote: @Zarent : with sensors towers, i see you coming with your stalkers, so by the time they blink up, there is banshees,hellions,and a raven on the cliff starting to fire,with a few tanks on the way. Basically hellions with proper micro handle stalkers really well, so with banshees in pdd,this is ridiculously easy. And if the stalker's number is too high,i'll just wait my tanks to engage. And the longer it lasts, the more BC and raven i'll get . . .
If i choose to attack your army, i can just choose to set a trap for your stalkers as soon as i see them retreat , remember i can track with sensor towers and my mass orbitals
Considering your others statements amd McTeazy's one, i think than like some others people, you didn't watch any replays and just react to "Mech TvP", assuming my style is some 2 bases blind turtle
And you completely fail to address any questions about your strategy. The issue i'm trying to get at is the problem mech has with every matchup. the direct engagements are typically very good, but your immobility is easy to abuse. specifically in tvp, blink stalkers and immortal drops i believe would be hard to deal with. The other disadvantage is that a direct engagement i don't think would necessarily go in your favour in tvp. but i may be wrong about the second point.
also, i may be wrong, but i sensor towers don't show units on the mini map do they? this kind of limits your response time (i;m imagining thors and tanks trying to crunch up a ramp into a main)
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On March 27 2012 02:10 McTeazy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 16:36 Lyyna wrote: @Zarent : with sensors towers, i see you coming with your stalkers, so by the time they blink up, there is banshees,hellions,and a raven on the cliff starting to fire,with a few tanks on the way. Basically hellions with proper micro handle stalkers really well, so with banshees in pdd,this is ridiculously easy. And if the stalker's number is too high,i'll just wait my tanks to engage. And the longer it lasts, the more BC and raven i'll get . . .
If i choose to attack your army, i can just choose to set a trap for your stalkers as soon as i see them retreat , remember i can track with sensor towers and my mass orbitals
Considering your others statements amd McTeazy's one, i think than like some others people, you didn't watch any replays and just react to "Mech TvP", assuming my style is some 2 bases blind turtle And you completely fail to address any questions about your strategy. The issue i'm trying to get at is the problem mech has with every matchup. the direct engagements are typically very good, but your immobility is easy to abuse. specifically in tvp, blink stalkers and immortal drops i believe would be hard to deal with. The other disadvantage is that a direct engagement i don't think would necessarily go in your favour in tvp. but i may be wrong about the second point. also, i may be wrong, but i sensor towers don't show units on the mini map do they? this kind of limits your response time (i;m imagining thors and tanks trying to crunch up a ramp into a main)
Seriously??
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On March 27 2012 02:10 McTeazy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 16:36 Lyyna wrote: @Zarent : with sensors towers, i see you coming with your stalkers, so by the time they blink up, there is banshees,hellions,and a raven on the cliff starting to fire,with a few tanks on the way. Basically hellions with proper micro handle stalkers really well, so with banshees in pdd,this is ridiculously easy. And if the stalker's number is too high,i'll just wait my tanks to engage. And the longer it lasts, the more BC and raven i'll get . . .
If i choose to attack your army, i can just choose to set a trap for your stalkers as soon as i see them retreat , remember i can track with sensor towers and my mass orbitals
Considering your others statements amd McTeazy's one, i think than like some others people, you didn't watch any replays and just react to "Mech TvP", assuming my style is some 2 bases blind turtle And you completely fail to address any questions about your strategy. The issue i'm trying to get at is the problem mech has with every matchup. the direct engagements are typically very good, but your immobility is easy to abuse. specifically in tvp, blink stalkers and immortal drops i believe would be hard to deal with. The other disadvantage is that a direct engagement i don't think would necessarily go in your favour in tvp. but i may be wrong about the second point. also, i may be wrong, but i sensor towers don't show units on the mini map do they? this kind of limits your response time (i;m imagining thors and tanks trying to crunch up a ramp into a main) . . . Did you at least watched some replays , to see how do i deal with mobility (as already said,mass sensor towers, which shows on the minimap yes, and "MassHack" orbitals)? Same for how engagements goes . .
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If you go for a fast banshee while building CC in base (like you do in most of the replays), is it best to change the build if you spot a 4-gate incoming or just carry on? I suspect that the 4-gate will hit long before the banshee has cloak but I am not sure.
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On March 27 2012 02:50 MockHamill wrote: If you go for a fast banshee while building CC in base (like you do in most of the replays), is it best to change the build if you spot a 4-gate incoming or just carry on? I suspect that the 4-gate will hit long before the banshee has cloak but I am not sure.
Cloak banshee against 4g is basically a default win for Terran.
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Everlong has the good answer. Basically Cloak makes it autowin, and if you walled, you can hold 4 gate with 1 or 2 bunkers. There is at least one replay in the last pack that shows how to hold a 4 gate with it
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Hi there, nice strategy. Really fun to see a protoss still on a good eco leaving a game after 50mins because he just dont want to send another army into death. I won all my games since i used this, but i have a quick question about the mech upgrades. I allways upgrade +3 armor first and it works really good. But why do you say that you allways should get armor as your 3rd upgrade? where is the difference in 0/1,1/1,1/2 to 0/1,0/2,1/2. (Weapon/Armor)
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Basically it's all about gas allocation and his army setup. When you finish +1 armor you may be tight in gas , and you need your armory to ALWAYS works . . . Also, if he's getting mass stalkers, attack is better, but if he's going zealot heavy,let's go armor
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The title is just hilarious ^^ nice write-up tho, i'll try this and maybe get my first win in 2012 vs protoss !
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MockHamill, there are many ways to detect a protoss all-in or cheese. If you 1st scouting scv died, send another at ~5'30 to check if protoss is taking expo. If no, add bunkers, you can even cut scv production a while. When I feel like protoss is going to all in, I add +2 barracks and cut scv production.
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