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On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo
First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted.
Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well.
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I had some trouble playing Mech when my opponent went mass air. He had about 15 Carriers and 10 void rays. I had scouted air and made mass Thor and mass Viking. I can post replay later, but I got crushed late game. Since I'm really not familiar with playing against Carriers; what is the best way to take them down? I was EMPing them with ghosts and letting the Vikings and Thor shoot them, but I'm thinking I should have been target firing; is this correct?
Basically, is target firing as important as I think it is when facing carriers?
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Basically,the best way to counter mass air is
-Good amount of ghosts with cloak (8-10)
-Mass BC (yamato is good,and they tank a huge amount of damage
-Mass Raven. Seriously, try HSM versus carriers . This is as effective as vs Broodlords !
-Few vikings and thors. Both get demolished by carriers and VR,so vikings are just here to add some dps, and thors to add some AOE/Tanking.
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On March 21 2012 22:31 Seppuku wrote:
I had some trouble playing Mech when my opponent went mass air. He had about 15 Carriers and 10 void rays. I had scouted air and made mass Thor and mass Viking. I can post replay later, but I got crushed late game. Since I'm really not familiar with playing against Carriers; what is the best way to take them down? I was EMPing them with ghosts and letting the Vikings and Thor shoot them, but I'm thinking I should have been target firing; is this correct?
Basically, is target firing as important as I think it is when facing carriers?
BCs with Yamato absolutely own Carriers.. Only thing you need to worry about is HT's and Vortex. So as long as you hit few good EMPs you can't lose.. Vikings as a suppor units are "OK", but what you really need are BCs. Thors are just terrible against Protoss air since they never ever make Phoenixes, but it's good to have few to tank damage and in case he switches to ground again.
To make sure you are ready for this tech switch you either go "preventive" BCs after you secured your 3rd/4th or you need to scan pretty often to locations where Stargates are likely to be build (like free space in his base). If you are surprised by his air switch, only option other than losing is to spam turrets everywhere to buy time.
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On March 21 2012 22:14 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted. Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well.
first of all, he spent time writing that post providing useful content. his input is very much wanted. just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't belong here. think of protoss players who might be reading this thread.
second of all, provide evidence. his post was well thought out, yours is not
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On March 21 2012 22:40 McTeazy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:14 crocodile wrote:On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted. Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well. first of all, he spent time writing that post providing useful content. his input is very much wanted. just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't belong here. think of protoss players who might be reading this thread. second of all, provide evidence. his post was well thought out, yours is not
Oh my god we've been through this a dozen times in this thread. If you want to talk about mech viability go to another thread, this is about improving mech play for those who don't give a shit about that.
Do you honestly think what he said is anything nobody else has said in the last 20 pages? Its nothing new or useful, really. Do you think anyone here wants to get told by ANOTHER closed minded sheep that mech is not viable? Fuck off.
User was warned for this post
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On March 21 2012 22:40 McTeazy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:14 crocodile wrote:On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted. Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well. first of all, he spent time writing that post providing useful content. his input is very much wanted. just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't belong here. think of protoss players who might be reading this thread. second of all, provide evidence. his post was well thought out, yours is not
Not really, this thread is indeed named "How to mech TvP".. The fact someone is spending time providing content is not an assurance it's wanted. We've had so many posts like this where guy basically writes why mech doesn't work and he talks from his own experience. Ok, we know it's not played on the top level, we know it's not concidered "viable" at the moment and we all know mech can get utterly destroyed, which is something those guys experience when on ladder facing someone who just throws in mech build once in a while. But here we discuss how to cover all weak points and how to get to the stage where you can finally fight Protoss army heads on and you are cost effective and oh boy does is feel good..
edit: This thread is full of evidence, so many times those 2base timings were mentioned and there are ton of replays actually, so don't jump on the bandwagon and just blindly make statements to argue something.
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On March 21 2012 22:48 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:40 McTeazy wrote:On March 21 2012 22:14 crocodile wrote:On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted. Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well. first of all, he spent time writing that post providing useful content. his input is very much wanted. just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't belong here. think of protoss players who might be reading this thread. second of all, provide evidence. his post was well thought out, yours is not Oh my god we've been through this a dozen times in this thread. If you want to talk about mech viability go to another thread, this is about improving mech play for those who don't give a shit about that. Do you honestly think what he said is anything nobody else has said in the last 20 pages? Its nothing new or useful, really. Do you think anyone here wants to get told by ANOTHER closed minded sheep that mech is not viable? Fuck off.
He made several strong points showing how HE believes mech is not viable. If you don't want responses from people giving their opinion on whether or not a strategy is viable, then dont make a fucking thread about it with a fucking [D] on it. Grow the fuck up and learn how to ignore people if you really dont want to hear their input. ALSO: "closed minded sheep" how is stating your opinion based on every bit of experience and evidence up to this point being a "closed minded sheep?" You are an ignorant fuck.
<3 :D
Edit: Forgot to add that any push by mech before the 12:00 mark will get utterly crushed cause it will be tiny and ineffective. Gateway units will shit on it.
User was warned for this post
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This build order has to be some sort of attempt at trolling...
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lol, why are you guys so butthurt? I hate to agree to a protoss player, but he's completely right: Mech only works because people on ladder are too dumb to realise how to play against it. You can blabber all day about how this threat is meant to discuss "how to mech" and not about "viablity", but that doesn't change the fact that it is a gimmick.
How about I open a thread about BC rushing and tell everyone to "fuck off" who sais it isn't viable.
Mech can only work on like 2 maps and even on those it's dependend on the protoss to be bad.
Move on kiddies
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On March 21 2012 22:57 theCablik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:48 crocodile wrote:On March 21 2012 22:40 McTeazy wrote:On March 21 2012 22:14 crocodile wrote:On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted. Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well. first of all, he spent time writing that post providing useful content. his input is very much wanted. just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't belong here. think of protoss players who might be reading this thread. second of all, provide evidence. his post was well thought out, yours is not Oh my god we've been through this a dozen times in this thread. If you want to talk about mech viability go to another thread, this is about improving mech play for those who don't give a shit about that. Do you honestly think what he said is anything nobody else has said in the last 20 pages? Its nothing new or useful, really. Do you think anyone here wants to get told by ANOTHER closed minded sheep that mech is not viable? Fuck off. He made several strong points showing how HE believes mech is not viable. If you don't want responses from people giving their opinion on whether or not a strategy is viable, then dont make a fucking thread about it with a fucking [D] on it. Grow the fuck up and learn how to ignore people if you really dont want to hear their input. ALSO: "closed minded sheep" how is stating your opinion based on every bit of experience and evidence up to this point being a "closed minded sheep?" You are an ignorant fuck. <3 :D
Haha, you are funny.. Look how this thread is named - it's "How to mech TvP [D][G]".. Nobody is asking if it's viable, or not. We've been through this like first 5 pages or so where people just spammed blindly that something is not viable. Like really, look at those replays, read this thread from beginning and if you don't realize that your "Mech is not viable unitl pros do it" is not wanted at all I don't know what..
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Actual Thread title: "[D]How to Mech in TvP"
What you seem to think the thread title is: "[D] Tvp Mech Viability"
Some of us were trying to discuss things relevant to the thread topic, such as improving our mech play. You appear to want to discuss viability, which has nothing to do with the thread. If I weren't on my phone I'd go find dozens of other posts in this thread where people explain this to others like yourself.
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On March 21 2012 23:04 OmegaKnetus wrote:
lol, why are you guys so butthurt? I hate to agree to a protoss player, but he's completely right: Mech only works because people on ladder are too dumb to realise how to play against it. You can blabber all day about how this threat is meant to discuss "how to mech" and not about "viablity", but that doesn't change the fact that it is a gimmick.
How about I open a thread about BC rushing and tell everyone to "fuck off" who sais it isn't viable.
Mech can only work on like 2 maps and even on those it's dependend on the protoss to be bad.
Move on kiddies
Go away troll.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2012 22:48 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 22:40 McTeazy wrote:On March 21 2012 22:14 crocodile wrote:On March 21 2012 21:49 Methy wrote:
As a Protoss player I love it when terran tries to go mech. I honestly feel that, provided the skill level of the two players is the same, and provided the protoss scouts mech early enough, there is absolutely no reason the Protoss should lose.
Essentially the match plays out in a very similar fashion to Brood War PvT, with the Terran player being passive early and building up a monster army to hit a well defined push timing.
Only Protoss now has several incredible advantages. Charge is better against tanks than speed was in Broodwar, Dragoons can now blink making them way more effective, and the immortal has been added which just flat out stomps siege tanks. Granted vikings mean carriers are no longer an option, and the lack of arbitors is painful *BUT* the mothership fills exactly the same role. Storms are also far less effective against tank clusters than they were in broodwar, but not *totally* ineffective, and the lack of reavers is pretty annoying.
Added to this you have the fact that, while siege tanks in general are more effective due to unit clustering, their reduced damage per shot means they are WAY more vulnerable to flanking, which is now MUCH easier to do due to blink / charge. Then hellions <<<< vultures. I'm almost willing to state that as a flat out fact. People like to talk about the big moments when hellions rack up dozens of worker kills, but in all honesty hellion raids never seem to do nearly as much damage as vulture raids did. The lack of mines means that there's nothing to keep the protoss player from launching blink raids all over the map.
As such if a Protoss player just plays exactly like it's a Brood War game he should win. Taking a third at the 6 minute mark, flat out neglecting upgrades, macroing like a beast, and if the game goes late, using mass recall to bypass the terran army. What's even better is you can now completely wall off additional bases to block hellions, as your 'dragoons' can simply blink over the wall, further diminishing the effect of hellion raids.
The *ONLY* reason that mech works at all imo is because the average protoss player simply doesn't know how to deal with it.
Sure your lategame army is WAY more cost efficient than a standard protoss deathball, I'm totally willing to accept that (though I would argue the ultimate protoss death ball is still better - another option that wasn't available in brood war), but the simple fact of the matter is the Protoss should have WAYYY more production than you. The protoss should be exploiting the hell out of the fact that a mech army cannot hope to move out before the ~12 minute mark, and by the time you do move out, he should be maxed and capable of throwing away his army and then remaxing very quickly.
tl;dr the only reason mech works at all in PvT is because the average protoss player doesn't know how to deal with it, and tries to play standard.
edit: typo First of all this thread is not about mech viability, its about how to mech. Your input is not wanted. Second of all, yes mech can move out before 12 minutes. I think its more that you have not faced a well-controlled mech army/ build than that you know how to handle mech so well. first of all, he spent time writing that post providing useful content. his input is very much wanted. just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he doesn't belong here. think of protoss players who might be reading this thread. second of all, provide evidence. his post was well thought out, yours is not Oh my god we've been through this a dozen times in this thread. If you want to talk about mech viability go to another thread, this is about improving mech play for those who don't give a shit about that. Do you honestly think what he said is anything nobody else has said in the last 20 pages? Its nothing new or useful, really. Do you think anyone here wants to get told by ANOTHER closed minded sheep that mech is not viable? Fuck off.
every other guide includes discussion about what your opponent can do against you and the weaknesses of the build. do you want to learn or just whine about how people think you're wrong?
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So I was thinking about a build that goes 14 cc 14/14 rad to open to get the Econ rolling well for mech. 14/14 rax will hold most early pushes with bunkers and these 2 rax can be used for add on building and ghost production later. After 1414 rax get the gas and start factory with tank production, hellions aren't useful early game and marine tank will fare better eventually get into a hellion tank banshee type of composition with ghosts and vikings as needed. Hellion tank suck against immortals. Banshee come some what close and do well against stalkers. As far as archons go emp and Thor 250 seem like viable solutions. Though preventing a feedback will be difficult, Thor also serve as an observer sniper since ravens would be nice to have too.
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On March 21 2012 23:08 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 23:04 OmegaKnetus wrote:
lol, why are you guys so butthurt? I hate to agree to a protoss player, but he's completely right: Mech only works because people on ladder are too dumb to realise how to play against it. You can blabber all day about how this threat is meant to discuss "how to mech" and not about "viablity", but that doesn't change the fact that it is a gimmick.
How about I open a thread about BC rushing and tell everyone to "fuck off" who sais it isn't viable.
Mech can only work on like 2 maps and even on those it's dependend on the protoss to be bad.
Move on kiddies
Go away troll.
Well we could do one thing..
"Ok, thanks for your input, but we are trying to discuss here how mech can be improved, not how it is not viable.." instead of "Fuck you, go away.."
We could probably save this thread from endless flaming this way..
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I think current mech players are too focused on the hellion tank part where I believe it might be more important to have a health mix of mech/air. To me a TvP mech army would look like it has a bit of almost everything, hellion tank Thor Viking banshee raven ghosts, you name it.
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On March 21 2012 23:23 Blasterion wrote:
I think current mech players are too focused on the hellion tank part where I believe it might be more important to have a health mix of mech/air. To me a TvP mech army would look like it has a bit of almost everything, hellion tank Thor Viking banshee raven ghosts, you name it.
You might be correct. From what I can see, if you have this insane army of Hellion/Tank/Thor + Ghost/BC/Raven/Viking, Protoss just can't win.. Only way to get there is play this mega turtle style as shown in Lyyna's replays.. He own master Protoss players and if you don't mind playing long games and for once be in a situation where your opponent needs to do something, why not..
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On March 21 2012 23:27 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 23:23 Blasterion wrote:
I think current mech players are too focused on the hellion tank part where I believe it might be more important to have a health mix of mech/air. To me a TvP mech army would look like it has a bit of almost everything, hellion tank Thor Viking banshee raven ghosts, you name it. You might be correct. From what I can see, if you have this insane army of Hellion/Tank/Thor + Ghost/BC/Raven/Viking, Protoss just can't win.. Only way to get there is play this mega turtle style as shown in Lyyna's replays.. He own master Protoss players and if you don't mind playing long games and for once be in a situation where your opponent needs to do something, why not..
This is more of a TvZ concept but if you can why not toss a few planetaries in some key locations Protoss gate units are pretty inept at killing defensive structures. And while we are mechng engineering bay is doing nothing perhaps building armor and turret range will make them fierce threat to the Protoss to engage.
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Some people are just so unbelievable. I don't understand the "not viable, stop talking about it" mindset. How does a build become "viable"? Do they just pop up out of no where? Builds and strategies require work and practice to develop. Stop telling us to not spend time experimenting with a different strategy. I'm convinced every one of these trolls are Protoss who would rather continue AOE'ing my Bio ball to death in 2 seconds and then steamrolling my base.
If there are masters Terran using this with success then why the hell would it not be something to look into? I have seen a Mechanical deathball CRUSH a maxed Protoss army. Oh, so the build won't work against MC? Good to know, I'll have to avoid using it when I play him on my DIAMOND LADDER.
Constructive criticism is ALWAYS welcome, as is discussion about counters; but for fucks sake don't just say it isn't worth experimenting with. Bio has so many counters as well at this point. I am just struggling to fathom how any Terran player can look at a tank/thor/battlecruiser death ball and say "that's not viable."
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EPT
