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On February 08 2012 21:36 Camlito wrote:
Played vs my friend on Shakuras, was at a 60 supply lead with 8 broodlords and his 9 ghosts killed ALL of them in 1.5 seconds, with 8 broodlings seeing the light of day. It was not a fun experience.
I'm not gonna go rage mode over this, as it is hard to prevent, but yeh it is ridiculously strong for ghosts, and i imagine in ZvZ it may be troublesome.
9 Ghosts can fire 9 snipes at once, snipe has a cooldown of 0.5 seconds so in 1.5 seconds they can snipe 27 times.
A broodlord has 225 life, which means that you need 225/45 = 5 snipes per broodlords, this means that killing off 8 broodlords takes 40 snipes.
The question now is how did your friend cheat to squeeze aut 13 additional snipes or is your perception of the battle you stated wrong?
I am fine if people want to share their experiences but please don't be fooled by your feeling of despair, try to instead focus on what actually happened.
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On February 08 2012 20:37 BigProstate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 18:23 roymarthyup wrote:
i believe this is not a problem for infested terrans
however, it does seem slightly overpowered for ghosts only because right now in pro games the max rate of snipe fire is maybe 10-15 a second, which is kinda overpowered but whatever if zerg 200food swarms enough with broodlords while also keeping 20 overlords surrounding his broodlords to make it hard to snipe to target, zerg can sort of deal with it with that tactic
sure snipe seems sort of overpowered but you gotta realize fungal growth is extremely powerful against clumped units too in low caster numbers and 2 full energy infestors with 4 nice fungals can deal loads of damage to an army much more than 2ghosts. the problem is in a perfect world 20 infestors cannot stack their damage the way 20ghosts can.
with micro-bot level APM, 20ghosts can unload all their energy in a second and obliterate 80food worth of zerg army in a second, but 20infestors cannot do that with fungal growth because fungal growth is damage over time, and snipe is instant
so infestors compared to ghosts are not able to be culmulatively more powerful. 2 infestors will be almost as effective as 15 infestors in a massive battle when it comes to fungalling (assuming they arent sniped. im just talking pure energy effectiveness)
one fungal growth can deal 300 damage for 75 energy. very effective against vikings/marines (broodlords main counter). 4-1 ratio.
Snipe does 45 damage for 25 energy, roughly 2-1 ratio
so infestors in low amounts are better than ghosts in low amounts. but 20ghosts in perfect world can unload all their energy instantly for loads of damage while infestors only do Damager-Over-Time with fungal so infestors cannot do that
I think presently mass ghosts lategame as zerg is completely beatable, you just have to be smart about it and do the following tactic
Step 1) have about 12 broodlords clumped up and stacked which is possible with micro. you have to keep re-stacking them while a-moving. a-move them over the ground so they can have ling/infestor support when needed
Step 3) have 20 overlords with a bunch of overseers also clumped up and have them in the same group as the broodlords. when broodlords attack overlords are there to provide cover and make it hard for ghosts to snipe the broods
Step 3) have 10 infestors ready, 2 behind the broodlord army and 8 even further behind burrowed and ready to have 2 replacements whenever needed. if your front 2 infestors get EMP'ed, pull them back and bring in 2 fresh infestors to hopefully try again
Step 4) as you A-move the broodlords over the ground, they should be on top of overseers which have sight range greater than snipe. broodlord attackrange is greater than snipe, so when ghosts come in the broodlords should automatically start shredding them before they can get off too many snipes. also since a cloud of overlords is over the broodlords its even harder to snipe the broods (since overlords take target priority).
Step 5) keep the 2 infestors near the broodlords so When vikings try to use 9range to snipe broodlords nopefully you can get off a good fungal. a good fungal will take out a bunch of vikings with followup fungals
Step 6) also keep a few queens underneath the broodlords to provide anti air damage with range7. almost better to use queens than corrupters but of course you will also have a few corrupters. when you can try to use overlords to poop creep for queens
Step 7) keep your massive swarm of ling/baneling right near your broodlords. as your broodlords a-move across the map eventually you will reach the terrans siegetank line. broodlords are the counter to siegetanks and the terran will be forced to unsiege or be destroyed. do not engage with ling/bane unless the siegetanks are unsieged which the broodlords should force
Step 8) group things however you wish, but ill just brainstorm i think the best way to group would be broodlords+overlords+overseers+queens as one group and you constantly clump up this group and a-move slowly across the map. Next your 10infestors will be one group however in battle you just select 2 infestors and have them follow the broodlords, then you select them manually and try to spellcast fungals if you need, and if the front 2 get emp'ed you pull them back and select 2 more infestors to follow the broods. Then banelings/lings/roaches/whatever else you have is your third group that you constantly command to be by the broodlords. so thats 3 groups needed for your main lategame army, and then you have whatever forces around the map defending your expansions you can group those to wahtever you want
The 8step plan above should allow zerg to deal with ghosts okay, because ghosts snipe is only roughly the same range as broodlords, and if the broodlords are STACKED/CLUMPED (which is possible with micro) then by the time a group of ghosts come in to try and snipe they will have already been under heavy fire by the 12 broodlords. So in this scenario, broodlords vs ghosts/snipe becomes a fairly even battle or actually it goes into the broodlords favor
I would call the trade off between infestors being stronger than ghosts in low numbers even and balanced, however i just realized, terran also has hunter seeker missile. i swear to god that thing shouldnt have been buffed. hunter seeker missile is actually in many ways more powerful than fungal every time ive seen that thing dish out damage its seemed to be insanely overpowered.
and i think my 8step plan would perfectly counter ghosts, if hunter seeker missile didnt exist. However sadly, hunter seeker missile does exist, and god is that thing overpowered. If you try to use my clumping/stacking strategy against hunter seeker missile you will could lose your entire army to 4 ravens and those missiles travel about as fast as mutalisks now.
so yeah, just when i thought snipe would be balanced even with this tactic, im reminded of hunter seeker missile which counters the only zerg counter to mass ghosts endgame Having to do ALL of this when the terran simply scrolls his mouse wheel isn't exactly equal micro on both fronts, the amount of effort it takes to negate/lessen how strong snipe is with this scroll wheel thing isn't at all balanced, the damage output is stupid with this.
If you guys want to B$%^& about micro, then i say marine splitting, because terran's already go to great pains to protect themselves from clingy jealous banelings, and that takes considerable micro skills... is it fair to say banelings are overpowered because of the micro demands on terran players in order to fight against them? Just sayin...
also, if blizzard takes offense to this, they are terrible people, not because of balance, but because they advertised snipe as having this potential (albut in campaign videos: the +100 starting energy video to be sure)... so banning techniques that allow players to replicate the campaign snipe video is kinda BM!
it's sort of like saying:
"Lookie, this is what snipe can do, but if you figure out how to do it? we're gonna prevent you from using that technique!!! :DDD have a nice day!!!" ~make-believe blizzard
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On February 08 2012 13:53 Rockafella wrote:
There are a myriad of options with this, have been playing around with it. You can use scroll up for base camera and left click as scroll down and you can inject all hatches instantly after practicing it a couple times, also already mentioned splitting is insane and you can get a ridiculous amount of APM on the counter by spamming the right click thing. I can see this becoming illegal though due to the obvious advantages over someone clicking.
you just made zerg easy to play...
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On February 08 2012 13:53 Rockafella wrote:
There are a myriad of options with this, have been playing around with it. You can use scroll up for base camera and left click as scroll down and you can inject all hatches instantly after practicing it a couple times, also already mentioned splitting is insane and you can get a ridiculous amount of APM on the counter by spamming the right click thing. I can see this becoming illegal though due to the obvious advantages over someone clicking.
Eh, I don't think so. It's a muta stacking type BW bug moreso than one that needs fixing (lol teleporting drones).
It's an advanced technique that people can use if they can be bothered doing so.
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On February 09 2012 03:36 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
If you guys want to B$%^& about micro, then i say marine splitting, because terran's already go to great pains to protect themselves from clingy jealous banelings, and that takes considerable micro skills... is it fair to say banelings are overpowered because of the micro demands on terran players in order to fight against them? Just sayin...
also, if blizzard takes offense to this, they are terrible people, not because of balance, but because they advertised snipe as having this potential (albut in campaign videos: the +100 starting energy video to be sure)... so banning techniques that allow players to replicate the campaign snipe video is kinda BM!
it's sort of like saying:
"Lookie, this is what snipe can do, but if you figure out how to do it? we're gonna prevent you from using that technique!!! :DDD have a nice day!!!" ~make-believe blizzard
lol.
every damn terran bitches about marines being impossible to micro against banelings and yes, of course it's hard but it's supposed to be. and no, no good terran players do de facto think that banelings are overpowered.
but toss and z has tough micro too. do you think it's easy to split broods against a vortex? do you know how retardedly slow brood lords are? Brood lords have a movement speed of 1.4062 with an acceleration of 1.063 whereas marines have a speed of 2.25 (with stim they can move 50% more quickly) and an a of 1000. Now you may say that banelings come alot faster than a vortex and yep of course i can't disagree with that but if you look at it it might just even out? and what about getting a good spread of roach/hydra? is that really easy? and what about throwing fungals about marines without losing your infestors? do you know how fucking squishy infestors are?
however, i think terran might have the hardest late-game micro overall. sniping is kind of hard i guess (even if its incredibly good) and focusing colossi with vikings etc is of course harder than microing the colossi themselves. although i do think zerg has some hard late-game micro too since infestors are quite hard to keep alive (and also the already mentioned broods).
If this would be allowed in tournaments i'd fucking kill myself. It would be impossible to be on hive tech against a terran.
"yeah but you benefit from it too! you can throw infested terrans much faster!!!!!". big fucking deal. what change does a couple of seconds mean when your brood lords, infestors and ultras won't do a single shit.
i do, in alot of my zvt:s, opt to go for brood lord/infestor/ling late game. If this would be allowed and not patched (so that people can't do it on ladder - don't know if that's doable though...) it would ruin the ZvT late game completely. and you can't disagree with that. sure you can say that marine splitting is harder than all zerg micro but just don't say machine gun snipes wouldn't ruin the late game of ZvT. cause it would.
Edit: also you don't have to censor your curse words on TL. this is not SOPA-land.
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On February 09 2012 03:54 tsilaicos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 03:36 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
If you guys want to B$%^& about micro, then i say marine splitting, because terran's already go to great pains to protect themselves from clingy jealous banelings, and that takes considerable micro skills... is it fair to say banelings are overpowered because of the micro demands on terran players in order to fight against them? Just sayin...
also, if blizzard takes offense to this, they are terrible people, not because of balance, but because they advertised snipe as having this potential (albut in campaign videos: the +100 starting energy video to be sure)... so banning techniques that allow players to replicate the campaign snipe video is kinda BM!
it's sort of like saying:
"Lookie, this is what snipe can do, but if you figure out how to do it? we're gonna prevent you from using that technique!!! :DDD have a nice day!!!" ~make-believe blizzard lol. every damn terran bitches about marines being impossible to micro against banelings and yes, of course it's hard but it's supposed to be. and no, no good terran players do de facto think that banelings are overpowered. but toss and z has tough micro too. do you think it's easy to split broods against a vortex? do you know how retardedly slow brood lords are? Brood lords have a movement speed of 1.4062 with an acceleration of 1.063 whereas marines have a speed of 2.25 (with stim they can move 50% more quickly) and an a of 1000. Now you may say that banelings come alot faster than a vortex and yep of course i can't disagree with that but if you look at it it might just even out? and what about getting a good spread of roach/hydra? is that really easy? and what about throwing fungals about marines without losing your infestors? do you know how fucking squishy infestors are? however, i think terran might have the hardest late-game micro overall. sniping is kind of hard i guess (even if its incredibly good) and focusing colossi with vikings etc is of course harder than microing the colossi themselves. although i do think zerg has some hard late-game micro too since infestors are quite hard to keep alive (and also the already mentioned broods). If this would be allowed in tournaments i'd fucking kill myself. It would be impossible to be on hive tech against a terran. "yeah but you benefit from it too! you can throw infested terrans much faster!!!!!". big fucking deal. what change does a couple of seconds mean when your brood lords, infestors and ultras won't do a single shit. i do, in alot of my zvt:s, opt to go for brood lord/infestor/ling late game. If this would be allowed and not patched (so that people can't do it on ladder - don't know if that's doable though...) it would ruin the ZvT late game completely. and you can't disagree with that. sure you can say that marine splitting is harder than all zerg micro but just don't say machine gun snipes wouldn't ruin the late game of ZvT. cause it would. Edit: also you don't have to censor your curse words on TL. this is not SOPA-land.
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?)
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I would like this if I could also use scroll on my browser.
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On February 09 2012 05:34 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?)
Just wanted you to know that your argument states that you'll use the scroll trick for Infested Terrans but not snipe simply because you have bad mouse accuracy. Because of that you would like snipe to be nerfed.
I have no point, just pointing that out to you.
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On February 09 2012 06:16 QuickFast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 05:34 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?) Just wanted you to know that your argument states that you'll use the scroll trick for Infested Terrans but not snipe simply because you have bad mouse accuracy. Because of that you would like snipe to be nerfed. I have no point, just pointing that out to you.
You try it asshole, it's ackward and clumsy as hell, it has nothing to do with my sensitivity or how good my coordination is... fucker... my point is that it looks amazing (like watching cloned battlecruisers in BW, that shit was amazing) but its not that much more useful.
User was warned for this post
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On February 09 2012 06:21 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:16 QuickFast wrote:On February 09 2012 05:34 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?) Just wanted you to know that your argument states that you'll use the scroll trick for Infested Terrans but not snipe simply because you have bad mouse accuracy. Because of that you would like snipe to be nerfed. I have no point, just pointing that out to you. You try it asshole, it's ackward and clumsy as hell, it has nothing to do with my sensitivity or how good my coordination is... fucker... my point is that it looks amazing (like watching cloned battlecruisers in BW, that shit was amazing) but its not that much more useful.
Tried it before I posted. It's amazing.
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On February 09 2012 06:21 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:16 QuickFast wrote:On February 09 2012 05:34 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?) Just wanted you to know that your argument states that you'll use the scroll trick for Infested Terrans but not snipe simply because you have bad mouse accuracy. Because of that you would like snipe to be nerfed. I have no point, just pointing that out to you. You try it asshole, it's ackward and clumsy as hell, it has nothing to do with my sensitivity or how good my coordination is... fucker... my point is that it looks amazing (like watching cloned battlecruisers in BW, that shit was amazing) but its not that much more useful.
Why is your response so rude? He wasn't being disrespectful to you. How do you play starcraft when your mouse isn't accrete enough to hover over a unit, wouldn't that make the game almost impossible to play?
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On February 09 2012 06:08 llKenZyll wrote:
I would like this if I could also use scroll on my browser.
If you decide to use the software in the OP you can set a separate profile and make it so that the scroll= left click only in starcraft 2. You can choose the specific application, ie. sc2.exe. In your browser you can scroll normally, but in sc2 it becomes left click. Happy hunting.
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On February 09 2012 06:30 r3tro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:08 llKenZyll wrote:
I would like this if I could also use scroll on my browser. If you decide to use the software in the OP you can set a separate profile and make it so that the scroll= left click only in starcraft 2. You can choose the specific application, ie. sc2.exe. In your browser you can scroll normally, but in sc2 it becomes left click. Happy hunting.
An easier way that I found was to go into settings from setup - from there, you can enable global hotkeys to enable/disable the program.
Pretty useful!
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Sigh, it's sad how people are trying to defend this.
The reason this is cheating is because it allows clicks not based on a 1:1 basis. In windows mouse settings, one click of a scroll wheel can be set as high as 8 movements, which means in one movement of the scroll wheel (maybe 3 or 4 clicks) you'll get 24-32 keypresses... That's not 1 movement : 1 command. This is obviously unfair.
It looks like it's hard for Blizzard to ban (if they even care) but if they said it wasn't allowed than pros wouldn't use it because it would be immediately obvious they were cheating when they hit 20k APM.
I don't understand why people will use this... imo, this is just like the people who use drophacks, maphacks, and other stuff... your concern is winning and not getting better, which means you'll never get better.
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On February 09 2012 06:48 Kerwin wrote:
Sigh, it's sad how people are trying to defend this.
The reason this is cheating is because it allows clicks not based on a 1:1 basis. In windows mouse settings, one click of a scroll wheel can be set as high as 8 movements, which means in one movement of the scroll wheel (maybe 3 or 4 clicks) you'll get 24-32 keypresses... That's not 1 movement : 1 command. This is obviously unfair.
It looks like it's hard for Blizzard to ban (if they even care) but if they said it wasn't allowed than pros wouldn't use it because it would be immediately obvious they were cheating when they hit 20k APM.
I don't understand why people will use this... imo, this is just like the people who use drophacks, maphacks, and other stuff... your concern is winning and not getting better, which means you'll never get better.
When I'm zerg I use clicks not based on a 1:1 basis every game. When I'm building mass units I hit s and then their hotkey once and hold it while it resisters a dozen or so keystrokes. I think every key registers mulitple strokes if you hold it down so this is this different?
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On February 09 2012 06:27 SCdinner wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:21 XerrolAvengerII wrote:On February 09 2012 06:16 QuickFast wrote:On February 09 2012 05:34 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?) Just wanted you to know that your argument states that you'll use the scroll trick for Infested Terrans but not snipe simply because you have bad mouse accuracy. Because of that you would like snipe to be nerfed. I have no point, just pointing that out to you. You try it asshole, it's ackward and clumsy as hell, it has nothing to do with my sensitivity or how good my coordination is... fucker... my point is that it looks amazing (like watching cloned battlecruisers in BW, that shit was amazing) but its not that much more useful. Why is your response so rude? He wasn't being disrespectful to you. How do you play starcraft when your mouse isn't accrete enough to hover over a unit, wouldn't that make the game almost impossible to play?
My response is rude because he was disrespecting me. He was doing so by making a claim that i was bad at the game, and using that as justification to ignore my argument.
I'm not sure how to respond to "How do you play starcraft when your mouse isn't accurate enough to hover over a unit, wouldn't that make the game almost impossible to play?" because its a pretty obvious statement... and i want to reiterate that it has nothing to do with mouse accuracy:
the games I tried to use snipe and mouse scroll, i found microing those battles very awkward to perform normal actions, then change my hand position to control the mouse and spam the scroll wheel (of course, my scrollwheel is terrible but w.e)
also, go back to the origonal poster video, the only difference using the mechanic and not, is with this mechanic, less ghosts are sitting around doing nothing...
LASTLY, i want to point out that THIS IS AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN GET TO REMOVING SMARTCASTING
I would love holding alt or something to disable smartcasting for using certain spells, but since such a thing doesn't exist, i believe that this TECHNIQUE is fine, because the EFFECT is as though there is no smartcasting.
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Surely this problem is fixed by the whole not allowing 3rd party drivers thing like in tournaments.
People with mice such as the Sensei etc can have one mousewheel up = one click --> 1:1
Third party programs to make scroll up = 7 scrolls (via windows) and those 7 scrolls = 7 clicks (via program) --> many:1
TL:DR
One mouseclick to one wheel scroll should be allowable / acceptable
Many mouseclicks to one wheel scroll should not be allowed / unacceptable
Just my 2c
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On February 09 2012 06:56 SCdinner wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:48 Kerwin wrote:
Sigh, it's sad how people are trying to defend this.
The reason this is cheating is because it allows clicks not based on a 1:1 basis. In windows mouse settings, one click of a scroll wheel can be set as high as 8 movements, which means in one movement of the scroll wheel (maybe 3 or 4 clicks) you'll get 24-32 keypresses... That's not 1 movement : 1 command. This is obviously unfair.
It looks like it's hard for Blizzard to ban (if they even care) but if they said it wasn't allowed than pros wouldn't use it because it would be immediately obvious they were cheating when they hit 20k APM.
I don't understand why people will use this... imo, this is just like the people who use drophacks, maphacks, and other stuff... your concern is winning and not getting better, which means you'll never get better. When I'm zerg I use clicks not based on a 1:1 basis every game. When I'm building mass units I hit s and then their hotkey once and hold it while it resisters a dozen or so keystrokes. I think every key registers mulitple strokes if you hold it down so this is this different?
That's wrong. Starcraft 2 only count 1 scroll step as 1 click regardless of how high the Windows control panel scroll movement is.
You can simply scroll faster than you can click buttons and that's all there is to it.
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On February 09 2012 07:06 Vrtigo wrote:
Surely this problem is fixed by the whole not allowing 3rd party drivers thing like in tournaments.
People with mice such as the Sensei etc can have one mousewheel up = one click --> 1:1
Third party programs to make scroll up = 7 scrolls (via windows) and those 7 scrolls = 7 clicks (via program) --> many:1
TL:DR
One mouseclick to one wheel scroll should be allowable / acceptable
Many mouseclicks to one wheel scroll should not be allowed / unacceptable
Just my 2c
That's already how it is. It's illegal to create macros that are more than 1:1 click:action.
But since we can scroll way way faster than we can click, 1:1 is still incredible fast on a scroll wheel.
Besides they would not ban 3rd party drivers, they would ban setting that setting in the driver program. They can't remove the ability to install mouse drivers for players, that would be insane.
I think you don't need a program to do this, you can simply just use regedit.exe in Windows. Are they going to ban Windows? Obviously not, they would ban setting mouse button 1 to scroll wheel. READ: If we need to ban this....
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On February 09 2012 07:00 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:27 SCdinner wrote:On February 09 2012 06:21 XerrolAvengerII wrote:On February 09 2012 06:16 QuickFast wrote:On February 09 2012 05:34 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Look, i take a little offense, so i'll be defensive...
I was a terran player, and now i play zerg so I understand zerg micro and macro mechanics well enough for these arguments.
I also hate snipe as an ability, and hate the direction blizzard has taken with ghosts... i feel like going back to the good ol 150/150 with 2radius emp would probably fix everything, less snipes, less ghosts, less emp blanketing, it would be great.
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
what i mean by inefficient, is that if the cooldown for snipe is long enough
than one could feasibly fit an auto attack in between snipes, but trying to get your ghosts to do that would be a nightmare (especially when using the hold fire button)
i still think the answer is 3 second cooldown, 50 energy, 90-100 damage... but everyone likes their little 25::45 efficiency bullshit so w.e
infested terrans all day erry day!!!
I GUESS WHAT BOTHERS ME is that snipe is blizzard's alternative to irradiate... which i would LOVE to see
(irradiation round anybody?) Just wanted you to know that your argument states that you'll use the scroll trick for Infested Terrans but not snipe simply because you have bad mouse accuracy. Because of that you would like snipe to be nerfed. I have no point, just pointing that out to you. You try it asshole, it's ackward and clumsy as hell, it has nothing to do with my sensitivity or how good my coordination is... fucker... my point is that it looks amazing (like watching cloned battlecruisers in BW, that shit was amazing) but its not that much more useful. Why is your response so rude? He wasn't being disrespectful to you. How do you play starcraft when your mouse isn't accrete enough to hover over a unit, wouldn't that make the game almost impossible to play? My response is rude because he was disrespecting me. He was doing so by making a claim that i was bad at the game, and using that as justification to ignore my argument. I'm not sure how to respond to "How do you play starcraft when your mouse isn't accurate enough to hover over a unit, wouldn't that make the game almost impossible to play?" because its a pretty obvious statement... and i want to reiterate that it has nothing to do with mouse accuracy: the games I tried to use snipe and mouse scroll, i found microing those battles very awkward to perform normal actions, then change my hand position to control the mouse and spam the scroll wheel (of course, my scrollwheel is terrible but w.e) also, go back to the origonal poster video, the only difference using the mechanic and not, is with this mechanic, less ghosts are sitting around doing nothing... LASTLY, i want to point out that THIS IS AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN GET TO REMOVING SMARTCASTING I would love holding alt or something to disable smartcasting for using certain spells, but since such a thing doesn't exist, i believe that this TECHNIQUE is fine, because the EFFECT is as though there is no smartcasting.
Sorry but I was not disrespecting you. I simply re stated what you had posted.
Problem:
I will use the mouse scroll thingie, because i love infestors, and i love infested terrans, and with this, i dont have to spend an hour clicking to cast a bunch of ITs... i wont use this with snipe and ghost, because it is much harder to control (as in moving the mouse accurately and rolling is unnatural for me) and i will probably just use leftclick + held r instead...
Solution:
Snipe should be changed, but i think that right now its a shitty mechanic
i worry about things like adding a cooldown (in order to simulate the slowness at which players use the spell using left click) etc because that just makes the ghost an inefficient unit (in terms of wasted damage and attack i can explain that more)
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EPT
