Infested Terran trick. By using mousewheel - Page 28

On February 09 2012 07:34 TheNessman wrote:
I want to point out the subtelty that i think a lot of people are missing with the 1 to 1 key rebinding. The difference is that every single thing on your computer is a BUTTON except for the scroll wheel! it is a wheel, not a button, it is supposed to be used a bunch at one time, where as a button has to be pressed repeatedly to be used over and over again. scroll wheels are designed to have one motion (one scroll) == a bunch of equivalent key pressings.

how many times do you "scroll" to get to the bottom of the page? now how many times do you have to press the DOWN ARROW? and how long did those take you?

a wheel is INHERENTLY DIFFERENT than a button. This is something I feel a lot of people are over looking.

On February 09 2012 01:03 Spacedude wrote:
This keyboard re-map method does give you more control over your mouse movement while mass casting spells, I feel - It's more comfortable than using the scroll wheel. It might be slightly slower than the wheel, tho?, with the 31 actions limit, anyhow.

I use this code in Autohotkey for it:

''*<::
SetKeyDelay -1
Send {Blind}{Lbutton DownTemp}
return''

'<' being the key on the keyboard

On February 09 2012 07:42 RoyAlex wrote:


You can still bind Mouse button 1 to a keyboard button and adjust the repeat delay for that key and just hold that down istead of scrolling. Since keyboard button repeats itself unlike the left & right mouse buttons you can just hold it down and it will actually click faster than a scroll wheel would do.

Like this guy:

On February 09 2012 07:43 TheNessman wrote:


oh then why isn't this a problem with holding down the key? also idk if you could hold down keys in bw hahahaha never tried ti

HM OH RIGHT they were talking about the delay from when you have the key pressed once before it starts repeating.

the thing is is that scroll wheels don't have that.

On February 09 2012 07:46 RoyAlex wrote:


You can remove the inital repeat delay and then you can use keyboard keys just as fast as you can with scroll wheel.
I said that in my post: "adjust the repeat delay for that key".

On February 09 2012 07:48 TheNessman wrote:

you CANNOT remove the initial repeat delay through control panel. which is the only way it is legit to me. If you remove it completely thats HACKING

On February 09 2012 07:51 RoyAlex wrote:


You can set it lower in control panel...
You can even set it lower in regedit.exe, Microsoft just never bothered to put it lower in control panel. If you use MAC, you can use the terminal to set it just as low as you can in regedit in Windows. Is Online tournaments going to ban starcraft 2 on MAC?

On February 09 2012 07:51 RoyAlex wrote:
I mean.. what an arbitrary thing to believe.
If Microsoft was not lazy and did decide to make the slider in control panel so you can put it even lower it would be fine?

On February 09 2012 07:54 TheNessman wrote:

lol name 1 pro that plays on a mac

idk this is getting into the debate of how much hardware / software modification should be allowed. IDK the answer to that, I just feel like a wheel and a button are distinct enough to create a.... distinction. aka you can't just use them the same!

On February 09 2012 07:59 Willzzz wrote:
What if someone made a mouse that you could hold down the left click for repeat? would that be wrong?

Should they stop people holding down keys on keyboards so its harder to spam units?

On February 09 2012 08:02 RoyAlex wrote:
"lol name 1 pro that plays on a mac"
So its fine for MAC user to have so low repeat delay but not Microsoft user? No.

I think it's just ahead of it's time... i guess. Or i mean its really new and nobody don't know how to approch this.
I don't know if there were complaints like this when mouses with adjustable DPI came.
It has already been decided that macro's should not be used. So i guess if Blizzard, the pro players and tournaments decide to ban this it would be fine either way, lets just see if it really really breaks the game.

Maybe Razer comes out with a mouse that actually has 3 layers of left clicks, you just press further down, and that way you snipe faster than mouses with only 1 click. lol

On February 09 2012 00:39 Barrin wrote:
make the snipe animation longer (if anything...?)

like, I mean.. they're sniping.

I don't know if you've ever tried to snipe something with a sniper rifle... well, I haven't either. But I do know that the aiming part takes quite a bit longer than any other kind of gun.

On February 09 2012 08:02 TheNessman wrote:


I am leaving this conversation so you don't need to respond to my posts anymore but I do want to say this:

in bw this shit never came up. there was no "holding down keys" the idea of that is ridiculous imo.

And as long as you are asking hypotheticals, this is gonna take a long time to solve.

A button is what it is simply because we built it like that. A scroll wheel is what it is simply because its like that now

NOW. there is no point in talking about things that aren't real.



"its really new and nobody don't know how to approch this" Yes, because nothing you are talking about (macs, new razer mouse) are real. none of those things are real. you are talking about stuff that isn't real and isn't relevant. anyways now i hope everyone sees how close minded i am , and swear i'll ttyl

On February 09 2012 07:48 aliasA wrote:
I don't know how to intro this.
It begins with an ethical analysis, I made it as non-subjective as possible.
Then its my subjective analysis.
Then I deliver my creative analysis, in the spoiled section.
Then a summary with a twist at the end.
enjoy?

An overview of signals, listeners, and events:
+ Show Spoiler +

Using this knowledge, an ethical guideline can be constructed. The first hurdle comes with understanding the 1:1 map, as it is a technically vague description.

A map, in computing, not math, is an array with a unique 'key' assigned to a not necessarily unique value. For the code illiterate, an array is just a list of items, much like your wire frame selection.
A map with letters being the 'key': a->1 b->1 c->2 etc....

The unique key of the map must be the event, and the non-unique corresponding entry must be a signal, or set of identical signals.
Nothing else exists related to user input.

The scenario calling for an event to correspond to a single signal would forbid holding down keys. This leaves the set of signals. A set of signals being paired with each unique event accounts for all current gameplay. This also allows for scroll click.

Some examples, for clarification
+ Show Spoiler +

This is the only way to view this. The action of 'artificially' clicking repeatedly is rudimentary, devoid of intelligence. (You are artificially sending signals to the computer either way) It can be considered a basic mechanic of the mouse, equivalent to a shift click in complexity. It should not be considered for prohibition. It should be accepted as a norm. Of course, in the scenario that the state of the game does nosedive because of an endgame composition that has been left to pool energy, it still should not be considered. A specific ability of a specific endgame unit is one of the easier balance problems for blizzard to judge.



The community would do good by accepting this mechanic.

Industries grow when they take advantage of new technology and adapt it to their needs or desires. The capabilities of the man machine interface can and will grow beyond this. And, as a people interested in highly intelligent gaming, it would behoove developers, players, spectators to participate in the growth of the interface.

The developers gain a tool, the players gain thrills. The players have the burden and the opportunity.

Finding ways to create new challenges is a first step. Create new standards of perfection. If a mechanic seems to enable great use of one ability in the game, then any other abilities that use that mechanic will be necessarily stronger. Perhaps being able to drop on the fly instantly will become a play-style strength. Perhaps the raven can be used to do quick wall offs, but only with a practiced motion. Perhaps a strong infestor composition with neural parasite can be discovered, where a critical mass of key small food units would be mind controlled in a large engagement. It would take skill and accuracy. And mostly immense practice. How else would you find out how much delay between each click is best for reaching each dropship exactly in time?

Learn to give up tools that weren't as effective for these tasks, like the single clicks. Those single clicks will still be the norm for all other tasks. But learn to use the new tools as voraciously and efficiently as possible. The speed of the raw clicks was never that important. They did not make you. The speed in changing selections, mouse positions, and switching your mouse from function to function was what took your time.

It is easy to take your mouse's complexity for granted. It is not as simple as the number of buttons on it. Here are a few: the shift click, the control click, the control shift click, the double click, the right click, and of course the single click. Your mouse has so many functions, not only based on which click you use, but where your cursor is located, and what is in your wire frame selection. This feature isn't making the mouse that much more powerful on its own. Its just another way to approach the same actions.

Now you have a choice. Read what I've thought of. It might strain your ethics. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.


+ Show Spoiler +

The mechanic that has been realized is a directed rapid click. It has potential. The downsides aren't obvious. I picture it as a key you hold down, just like control and shift, to use in conjunction with your mouse. Accuracy, efficiency, and timing, as always, remain the standards of skill.

And here is my kicker, progamers, one of the largest upsides will be that your mouse wrist will be spared long term damage.

On February 09 2012 08:22 People_0f_Color wrote:


Kind of meaningless to me. You could use this logic to legitimize every exploit in every game, whether it was multiple actions happening by a single button on a mouse or any glitch/exploit in any game. Sometimes new technology isn't good just because it makes some tasks easier because sometimes those tasks were designed to be hard. Snipe is a good example of this snipe requires great stamina in clicking because the pay off for each click is really high. When stamina doesn't play a factor, the likelihood is that the spell will be nerfed sine it loses the limitations that were designed to keep it in check.

The irony of this topic is if blizzard is paying attention, the ghost is about to get a nerf. Whether thats a energy cost for snipe going up or a cooldown increase.

I personally think this technique isn't as bad for spamming zerglings or for spamming ITerrans because conceivably few outcomes would become highly unfavorable for opponents with the addition of the ability to shoot ITs faster. SAme thing about spamming the creation of zerglings. Right now the game is balanced around zerglings being spammed. But MOST people already argue that the ghost is a versatile unit on the cusp of being too efficient against everything zerg and a lot protoss. This is more likely to make that thing too good.

On February 09 2012 19:11 Azzur wrote:
According to Artosis, Nestea used this in his match against DRG!

If true, this settles the argument that it's 100% allowed in tournament play!