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On February 08 2012 05:51 KAmaKAsa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:32 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On February 07 2012 19:07 Liquid`TLO wrote:On February 07 2012 18:57 Afterstar wrote:
If blizzard removes this, then they should fix the bug with the snipe key.
The problem:
After you select your ghosts,if you Hold "R" (Pressed) and start spamming left click immediately on one or more targets, only one ghost will get the command to snipe once,the system will deselect your group and select the enemy target.
Now do the following, select your ghosts, Hold "R"(Pressed), wait 1.5seconds with R pressed and then spam left click on multiple targets. The snipes will work correctly for all ghosts.
This is a bug,that forces you to have to wait 1.5seconds before being able to snipe fast or forces you having to hold SHIFT+R,where you are queueing commands.This method is risky because if one of the targets gets out of range your ghosts will try to reach it, also sometimes ghosts will fire normal shots,even further delaying your sniping.
If you Hold E(Pressed) for EMP and spam left click immediately,it will work correctly without the need of SHIFT or the 1.5second wait.Same for Infested Terrans,Fungal Growth,Storm.
Why is Snipe punished,having to wait 1.5seconds before being able to snipe fast? I don't think there is a problem with ghosts considering how strong ghosts are in the game. I haven`t met a progamer who complained about snipe being too bad to be honest. I admit snipe behaves a bit weird but you can master it nonetheless. Agreed. Also, that is not a bug that you have to wait. It's the same with all spells, and simply a mechanic of the game. And it's much shorter than 1.5 seconds, closer to 0.5 (adjust this through your control panel). On February 07 2012 18:32 Grovbolle wrote:On February 07 2012 17:51 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Is this allowed in tournaments? Pretty sure you can't rebind keys to scroll or other buttons on the mouse other than left and right click right? or no? Why wouldn't it? You are binding on a 1-to-1 scale, so it is just like having custom hotkeys AFAIK Well because then it would be about what mouse you get, and people would start getting mouses with like 10 extra buttons on them o.o ok... so if you hold r(the default snipe hotkey) you have to wait around a second till you can start clicking multiple times to snipe multiple times instead of just one snipe... if you dont wait that second the ghosts will be deselected after 1 snipe... I really doubt thats a "game mechanic" if so please explain the purpose of such game mechanic
Its pretty much the exact same mechanic as if youd just hold down a button right now. Any button, like "hhhhhhhh". Notice how it first types one "h", waits 1 second and then starts adding on more? Its so the game knows not to click the button 3 times in a row for you when you only meant to click it once. While this wouldn't make any difference when it comes to spellcasting (as clicking a spell 3 times instead of only once doesn't actually do anything), the whole game is based around it. And making 3 sets of zerglings when you only meant to make one would be worse than having to wait 1 second before mass spamming snipe or infestors (especially when you can work around it using shift)
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lol I allways thought it was pretty common knowledge that stuff like this is possible.
Anyway, I don't think we should allow this.
It would only make the game less interesting and it adds absolutely nothing.
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it's unfortunate that i don't use a mouse to play sc2 and have no scroll wheel. :|
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On February 08 2012 09:31 sketch.one wrote:
it's unfortunate that i don't use a mouse to play sc2 and have no scroll wheel. :|
Do you play on a touchpad?
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Wow thanks!! I foresee snipe becoming very op. Say goodbye to snipe folks.
Edit: I heard that you can turn down your keyboard delay(h.....hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) in the control panel. I don't know if this helps at all but why not. =D
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so.... how do you do this with steelseries sensei? :O
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On February 08 2012 09:46 mutantmagnet wrote:Someone should see if this makes any of the Void Ray Tricks practical now.
Messed around with it and I am not seeing a way to make this work (maybe I am approaching it wrong?).
You are still limited on how fast you can queue up attacks on individual units so spamming with the scroll/click is not better than shift queuing up the voids....
The fact that scroll click simply makes it possible to click faster does not benefit one shooting units like in the vods.
Ghosts snipe on the other hand can/is cast multiple times on a single unit (due to the obvious fact that snipe does X damage and units health is considerably more than an individual ghosts snipe).
Since its an ability that benefits from spamming on a single unit/location this scroll/click method works quite well....
Not really sure about other applications...
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Jesus fucking Christ.
I thought the first demonstration of the Infested Terrans was the scrolling thing and I was like, "ok."
Then I saw the real deal.
......
EDIT: This feels like GunZ all over again for some reason...
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this reminds me of the super fast dualies in counterstrike
good times good times
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Edit: to clarify, im not saying this must be patched out, but if they do decide to, there are good and bad ways to go about it.
I'm curious if/how blizzard will address this, I see a few options in the event they find it too much stronger than normal spam clicking:
Acceptable solutions by blizzard:
Rework abilities so they no longer benefit from mass click spam on 1 target.
Rework the abilities so they require the equivalent of mass click spam to use effectively, but make it not require remapping anything. Something like hold the spell button down while holding mouse button down to spam cast(with any spell). This is probably the best option.
Acceptable solutions by tournament organizers:
Rule prohibiting this specific technique, I feel this is an option for tournaments, but is unenforceable for blizzard, much like some glitches back in brood war.
Bad ideas:
Arbitrary click rate cap, either it would be too high to affect the scroll issue, or low enough that it would interfere with normal play.
Bundle input drivers w/ sc2, that you are required to use with sc2. (probably a bad idea, because of mice that remap internally, and because of the extra hassle involved in recreating the settings you're already used to.) Might be a good idea to ship custom drivers anyway, but make them optional.
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Set point doesnt have scroll option change can someone help a pea brain like me, I dont wanna use 3rd party besides setpoint
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There are a myriad of options with this, have been playing around with it. You can use scroll up for base camera and left click as scroll down and you can inject all hatches instantly after practicing it a couple times, also already mentioned splitting is insane and you can get a ridiculous amount of APM on the counter by spamming the right click thing. I can see this becoming illegal though due to the obvious advantages over someone clicking.
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holy crap.... that is a game changer... is this allowed?
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I feel that shift + snipe (single click) should snipe continuously until interrupted or out of energy; and snipe should be balanced around that. This would remove the need for the scroll wheel trick, as well as making snipe a less clunky and less apm intensive spell. As it is, it is extremely apm intensive to click 6 times for each broodlord, and 12 times for each ultra. Try macro'ing behind that, while target firing with seige tanks to avoid friendlyfire with broodlings and focusing banelings etc.
Maybe that's not a big deal for badass pro-gamers, but Blizzard does want us lowly humans to play the game as well, right?
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On February 08 2012 06:33 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 06:30 Monox1de wrote:
If you could hold down left mouse button and have it repeat like a keyboard button does that wouldn't be any different than holding down R and making 40 roaches really fast. Using this mouse wheel up and down trick, IMO, is the same as holding down a hotkey and having it repeat, only it's a tiny bit more difficult than just holding down a button.
However it is faster than the repeating of a keyboard. This can be shown in replays by looking at the APM.
Holding R apm goes up to 200-300
using the mousewheel like this i've seen it skyrocket to 2700. I just feel like mentioning that this is per mousewheel, my mouse wheel has the counters spread apart and scrolls relatively slowly in comparison, most of this 2700 apm is clearly wasted apm... its not like its 2700 perfect actions like the marine micro scripts from the automaton 2000 page...
Obvoiusly the 2700 isn't effective apm..Maybe 10 percent of the actions are actually doing something.
I don't see why the majority of the community feels this is cheap/cheating. I remember a similar discussion about the keyboard repeating and how some considered this to be cheap/cheating as well.
I just don't agree at all. It make it easier to do said action. Just like the command center/ nexus/ hatchery being able to rally workers to the mineral line made things easier. People argued that this made the game less interesting / too easy. But i feel it just clears up more room for people to focus on other aspects of the game instead of honing their physical skills.
I feel that this is very similar. People can focus more on positioning or other things rather than how fast they are clicking out the terrans or snipes.
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Okay, so if you can't do this with a fancy mouse you'll be doing it with a third party program.
Other third party programs :-
Map hacks
Production tab hacks
Drop hacks
A browser with your opponents stream in it
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A browser with your opponent's stream in it isn't considered a bannable offense by blizzard. The only third party programs blizzard cares about are those that read or modify sc2 memory, network data, or game files.
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On February 08 2012 14:42 SoulWager wrote:
A browser with your opponent's stream in it isn't considered a bannable offense by blizzard. The only third party programs blizzard cares about are those that read or modify sc2 memory, network data, or game files.
Would any of the examples I mentioned though be allowed in any tournament be it either online or offline?
No.
People need to stop trying to find "semi-legal" loopholes to make up for deficiencies in their play and just get better.
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So if people can agree that this is an issue, then why have smartcasting in the first place? That's the bigger issue.
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EPT
