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Hi guys, long time lurker, not made many posts, so here goes.
Having looked around on liquidpedia and the forums i've not really found a particularly useful 111 guide that suggests any timings or how to punish certain play styles (fe etc).
I've just gotten back into sc2 (after at least 6 months out) and found that a lot of timings have changed, my play style has always been one of a more aggressive player, not wanting to turtle, wanting to be poking etc all the time, i last played at plat/diamond level.
So i want to open 111 and instead of doing much of the gimicky banshee or fast drop play i'd like to open 1-1-1 (maybe delaying the starport or something in favour of another fact if you guys recommend) to start out with a nice timing attack that works against FE or that i can use to poke a similar 1-1-1 build to expand behind.
Any advice on early add-ons etc would be greatly apreciated!
recent replays / shoutcasts / dailys etc also welcome!
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hadn't thought of that, will check the video out in the morning i think as it's 1:18 here and i have my first day of uni 2morrow, but thanks for the early response and i'll be all over that tomorrow, thread still open to lots of other suggestions too!
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So, you want an aggressive TvT opener that opens up Starport tech and can be expanded behind? Sounds like a Banshee Marine opener is what you want. There are plenty of BO guides for this, but it's more or less
10 - Supply Depot
12 - Barracks (Constant marine production)
13 - Gas
@100gas - Factory & Second Refinery
@100% Factory - Starport
@50% Starport - Techlab on Factory
@100% Starport - Swap Starport onto Factory techlab.
Then start cloak and a banshee. Keep producing Banshees as long as you can find vulnerabilities in his base to exploit (no detection, inadequate anti-air).
You will float enough resources with constant Marine / Banshee / SCV production that you can either throw down another CC, or you can put a Reactor on your Barracks and a Tech Lab on your Factory and begin Marine / Tank production to follow up your Banshees with a Marine Tank push (I like this if I do a lot of damage)
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having looked at some of that daily (yes, yes, i know, i'll regret it in the morning) i really like thorzain's opener, BUT, it so happened that in the fist game puma has gone marine too, what if he had tanks with siege? would thorzain have to rely on the medivacs to skirt around the tanks and drop? or would you expect him to engage head on?
Many thanks, rcL
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Hiho,
im using a 111 siegepush with great success in dia on EU server.
After an Orbital Opening, i get my 2nd gas before the 16 depot, then just building one marine and build a factory asap. After that constant worker+marine production. Tech Lab @ Fact asap, Starport asap, Siege Tank asap, Siege Mode after that. At one point you have to cut scv or marine, that you not get supply blocked at 27. When Starport finishes, build one Medivac and Vikings after that.
Move out with your first tank and ~5 marines asap and rally the medivac. Go with one SCV on Autorepair.
Siege out of sight, but in fire radius (use your medivac to spot). When Vikings arrive, you can opt to drop your marines in the mineral line. At home, constant Marine, SCV, SiegeTank and Viking production. When you cann afford, build an E-Bay for Turrets (in case of Banshees). Build Turret at front to scare enemies air away.
Win.
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Reaper/hellion elevator is the go to 1-1-1 as of lately. You get an expo as well, pending how you do it. You can go into cloakshees, tanks, or straight up bio.
In my experience, reaper/hellion dismantles FE builds.
Ninja edit -- not at all gimmicky, either. I do it every single TvT lately. I'm 40-15 or something like that on my smurf (gzathegenius) currently around 670 masters with 150 BP still. Not a complete noob at least.
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On January 30 2012 10:49 CrazyFabiO wrote:
Hiho,
im using a 111 siegepush with great success in dia on EU server.
After an Orbital Opening, i get my 2nd gas before the 16 depot, then just building one marine and build a factory asap. After that constant worker+marine production. Tech Lab @ Fact asap, Starport asap, Siege Tank asap, Siege Mode after that. At one point you have to cut scv or marine, that you not get supply blocked at 27. When Starport finishes, build one Medivac and Vikings after that.
Move out with your first tank and ~5 marines asap and rally the medivac. Go with one SCV on Autorepair.
Siege out of sight, but in fire radius (use your medivac to spot). When Vikings arrive, you can opt to drop your marines in the mineral line. At home, constant Marine, SCV, SiegeTank and Viking production. When you cann afford, build an E-Bay for Turrets (in case of Banshees). Build Turret at front to scare enemies air away.
Win.
This is almost exactly what I do, I like to punish FE terrans. However I dont bother buying siege mode, i get a 2nd tank and attack then secure the ramp area of terran. I build an ebay at home for banshee insurance.
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On January 30 2012 10:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Reaper/hellion elevator is the go to 1-1-1 as of lately. You get an expo as well, pending how you do it. You can go into cloakshees, tanks, or straight up bio.
In my experience, reaper/hellion dismantles FE builds.
Ninja edit -- not at all gimmicky, either. I do it every single TvT lately. I'm 40-15 or something like that on my smurf (gzathegenius) currently around 670 masters with 150 BP still. Not a complete noob at least.
A bunker at the front and a marauder when your techlab is finished absolutely stops this rush. The good thing about this build is that you can get an expansion though but I don't think you can effectively deny a fast third which will always get you into trouble against a bio heavy player. Also I feek like this build is very weak against other 111 builds so do you use it blindly or only if you scout no gas?
I feel like most of these 111 attacks are very flimsy and if a fastexpanding terran reacts correctly you will always be very far behind if it fails.
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On January 30 2012 16:22 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Reaper/hellion elevator is the go to 1-1-1 as of lately. You get an expo as well, pending how you do it. You can go into cloakshees, tanks, or straight up bio.
In my experience, reaper/hellion dismantles FE builds.
Ninja edit -- not at all gimmicky, either. I do it every single TvT lately. I'm 40-15 or something like that on my smurf (gzathegenius) currently around 670 masters with 150 BP still. Not a complete noob at least. A bunker at the front and a marauder when your techlab is finished absolutely stops this rush. The good thing about this build is that you can get an expansion though but I don't think you can effectively deny a fast third which will always get you into trouble against a bio heavy player. Also I feek like this build is very weak against other 111 builds so do you use it blindly or only if you scout no gas? I feel like most of these 111 attacks are very flimsy and if a fastexpanding terran reacts correctly you will always be very far behind if it fails.
Okay -- that will delay anything the other terran will do, as I am on 2 bases with them locked down on 1? I'll take that. Marine tank pushes are cake with reaper/hellion/marine and scv pull. The reapers can be across the map like mutas and get back in time, or pick off shit on the way to my base.
I go right into marine tank, and non stop pressure. Trust me, taking a third is going to require a LOT of turtling, tanks, turrets around, and sensor towers.
I use to blindly, and I don't feel it's weak to ANY 1-1-1. Reaper scouts cloakshee, get a turret and sac the medivac for a viking. He goes banshee, no cloak? Medic then viking and just sac the SCV losses. Fast banshee builds make me lose like... 10 workers. Reaper hellion into their base makes them lose like... 20 workers. Even trade.
You can easily go into anything, and out of anything with reaper hellion. You don't have to 100% commit to it, if you scout them reacting well, swap a factory or starport onto your tech lab, and do a 2 base marine tank push? Or an earlier cloakshee than you would normally following a reaper/hellion (if that's your transition)
I feel reaper hellion just gives me an econ advantage, along with scouting knowledge. I have map control. You cannot take it from me until you push out.
To each their own, but my TvT has had a insane success rate lately using reaper/hellion.
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On January 31 2012 05:42 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 16:22 Baum wrote:On January 30 2012 10:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Reaper/hellion elevator is the go to 1-1-1 as of lately. You get an expo as well, pending how you do it. You can go into cloakshees, tanks, or straight up bio.
In my experience, reaper/hellion dismantles FE builds.
Ninja edit -- not at all gimmicky, either. I do it every single TvT lately. I'm 40-15 or something like that on my smurf (gzathegenius) currently around 670 masters with 150 BP still. Not a complete noob at least. A bunker at the front and a marauder when your techlab is finished absolutely stops this rush. The good thing about this build is that you can get an expansion though but I don't think you can effectively deny a fast third which will always get you into trouble against a bio heavy player. Also I feek like this build is very weak against other 111 builds so do you use it blindly or only if you scout no gas? I feel like most of these 111 attacks are very flimsy and if a fastexpanding terran reacts correctly you will always be very far behind if it fails. Okay -- that will delay anything the other terran will do, as I am on 2 bases with them locked down on 1? I'll take that. Marine tank pushes are cake with reaper/hellion/marine and scv pull. The reapers can be across the map like mutas and get back in time, or pick off shit on the way to my base. I go right into marine tank, and non stop pressure. Trust me, taking a third is going to require a LOT of turtling, tanks, turrets around, and sensor towers. I use to blindly, and I don't feel it's weak to ANY 1-1-1. Reaper scouts cloakshee, get a turret and sac the medivac for a viking. He goes banshee, no cloak? Medic then viking and just sac the SCV losses. Fast banshee builds make me lose like... 10 workers. Reaper hellion into their base makes them lose like... 20 workers. Even trade. You can easily go into anything, and out of anything with reaper hellion. You don't have to 100% commit to it, if you scout them reacting well, swap a factory or starport onto your tech lab, and do a 2 base marine tank push? Or an earlier cloakshee than you would normally following a reaper/hellion (if that's your transition) I feel reaper hellion just gives me an econ advantage, along with scouting knowledge. I have map control. You cannot take it from me until you push out. To each their own, but my TvT has had a insane success rate lately using reaper/hellion.
Funny part is where Reaper-Hellion dies to blind 3rax stim with 2 techlabs. Even funnier part is that if you go for my mineral line, i just sac all my scvs and go for a basetrade.
This is coming from tournament play (hungarian starleauge). Guy tought I would fe on tal'derim and he reaper-helioned, while i blindly did a 3rax stim as i was down 1 game in a bo3 and couldnt care.
Then again I did pull 20 scvs with my push, so I had like 10 @ home.
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edit: nevamind you didn't want a all-in
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sheck ge-force cup finals mma-mvp at taldarim if you so like
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On January 31 2012 23:44 punci wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 05:42 iAmJeffReY wrote:On January 30 2012 16:22 Baum wrote:On January 30 2012 10:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Reaper/hellion elevator is the go to 1-1-1 as of lately. You get an expo as well, pending how you do it. You can go into cloakshees, tanks, or straight up bio.
In my experience, reaper/hellion dismantles FE builds.
Ninja edit -- not at all gimmicky, either. I do it every single TvT lately. I'm 40-15 or something like that on my smurf (gzathegenius) currently around 670 masters with 150 BP still. Not a complete noob at least. A bunker at the front and a marauder when your techlab is finished absolutely stops this rush. The good thing about this build is that you can get an expansion though but I don't think you can effectively deny a fast third which will always get you into trouble against a bio heavy player. Also I feek like this build is very weak against other 111 builds so do you use it blindly or only if you scout no gas? I feel like most of these 111 attacks are very flimsy and if a fastexpanding terran reacts correctly you will always be very far behind if it fails. Okay -- that will delay anything the other terran will do, as I am on 2 bases with them locked down on 1? I'll take that. Marine tank pushes are cake with reaper/hellion/marine and scv pull. The reapers can be across the map like mutas and get back in time, or pick off shit on the way to my base. I go right into marine tank, and non stop pressure. Trust me, taking a third is going to require a LOT of turtling, tanks, turrets around, and sensor towers. I use to blindly, and I don't feel it's weak to ANY 1-1-1. Reaper scouts cloakshee, get a turret and sac the medivac for a viking. He goes banshee, no cloak? Medic then viking and just sac the SCV losses. Fast banshee builds make me lose like... 10 workers. Reaper hellion into their base makes them lose like... 20 workers. Even trade. You can easily go into anything, and out of anything with reaper hellion. You don't have to 100% commit to it, if you scout them reacting well, swap a factory or starport onto your tech lab, and do a 2 base marine tank push? Or an earlier cloakshee than you would normally following a reaper/hellion (if that's your transition) I feel reaper hellion just gives me an econ advantage, along with scouting knowledge. I have map control. You cannot take it from me until you push out. To each their own, but my TvT has had a insane success rate lately using reaper/hellion. Funny part is where Reaper-Hellion dies to blind 3rax stim with 2 techlabs. Even funnier part is that if you go for my mineral line, i just sac all my scvs and go for a basetrade. This is coming from tournament play (hungarian starleauge). Guy tought I would fe on tal'derim and he reaper-helioned, while i blindly did a 3rax stim as i was down 1 game in a bo3 and couldnt care. Then again I did pull 20 scvs with my push, so I had like 10 @ home.
So the complete lack of scouting and sticking to a build after seeing no FE or tech... right that's a good/smart game. You're on 1 base. You make marauders? You just transition out into a safe siege expand with bunkers as you have 1 base, I have 2. I personally vs 3 rax, as I have faced it, go marine tank raven safe 1-1-1 just with an early 2-3 reapers until I pinpoint what you go. From there I have the gas, just PDD the marauders if I get time and the push is nullified.
And, 3 rax is pretty bad in TvT, maybe at best a lucky blind build. Stick to blind 3 raxing, it'll take you far.
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I'm under the impression that a good player can always hold a 1-1-1 semi all in, doing a 1 Racks FE, into Mech - that's what I do anyway - if they go fast siegetech, you just repair your bunkers at the expo (yes you'll lose some SCV's, until your own siegetank and viking gets out, and you're set - and still with an advantage in economy.
1-1-1, if not going banshee, is not a good build against anything else than Protoss (where you'll pull alot of SCV's as well, making it all in).
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On February 01 2012 00:30 StormCPH wrote:
I'm under the impression that a good player can always hold a 1-1-1 semi all in, doing a 1 Racks FE, into Mech - that's what I do anyway - if they go fast siegetech, you just repair your bunkers at the expo (yes you'll lose some SCV's, until your own siegetank and viking gets out, and you're set - and still with an advantage in economy.
1-1-1, if not going banshee, is not a good build against anything else than Protoss (where you'll pull alot of SCV's as well, making it all in).
The safest 1-1-1 I do when I'm stressed, marine tank raven expo is completely safe, and holds off almost every single all in I've faced.
Not to mention the subsequent rag-tag army of raven, 2 vikings, 2-3 tanks, handful of marines and maybe a medic does a wonderful push against FE builds. Exploit cliffs, and auto turrets with early siege to regain an econ advantage by camping a natural, or sieging their production.
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On February 01 2012 00:58 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 00:30 StormCPH wrote:
I'm under the impression that a good player can always hold a 1-1-1 semi all in, doing a 1 Racks FE, into Mech - that's what I do anyway - if they go fast siegetech, you just repair your bunkers at the expo (yes you'll lose some SCV's, until your own siegetank and viking gets out, and you're set - and still with an advantage in economy.
1-1-1, if not going banshee, is not a good build against anything else than Protoss (where you'll pull alot of SCV's as well, making it all in). The safest 1-1-1 I do when I'm stressed, marine tank raven expo is completely safe, and holds off almost every single all in I've faced. Not to mention the subsequent rag-tag army of raven, 2 vikings, 2-3 tanks, handful of marines and maybe a medic does a wonderful push against FE builds. Exploit cliffs, and auto turrets with early siege to regain an econ advantage by camping a natural, or sieging their production.
I'm not saying I'm the best player in the world (I'm high diamond), but I've held every 1-1-1 that's been thrown my way, if they don't pull all the scv's and bring wit them. I guess I'm not saying 1-1-1 is the worst build in the world, I just like a 1 racks FE way better, because of the better potential for economy and a macro game.
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On February 01 2012 01:13 StormCPH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 00:58 iAmJeffReY wrote:On February 01 2012 00:30 StormCPH wrote:
I'm under the impression that a good player can always hold a 1-1-1 semi all in, doing a 1 Racks FE, into Mech - that's what I do anyway - if they go fast siegetech, you just repair your bunkers at the expo (yes you'll lose some SCV's, until your own siegetank and viking gets out, and you're set - and still with an advantage in economy.
1-1-1, if not going banshee, is not a good build against anything else than Protoss (where you'll pull alot of SCV's as well, making it all in). The safest 1-1-1 I do when I'm stressed, marine tank raven expo is completely safe, and holds off almost every single all in I've faced. Not to mention the subsequent rag-tag army of raven, 2 vikings, 2-3 tanks, handful of marines and maybe a medic does a wonderful push against FE builds. Exploit cliffs, and auto turrets with early siege to regain an econ advantage by camping a natural, or sieging their production. I'm not saying I'm the best player in the world (I'm high diamond), but I've held every 1-1-1 that's been thrown my way, if they don't pull all the scv's and bring wit them. I guess I'm not saying 1-1-1 is the worst build in the world, I just like a 1 racks FE way better, because of the better potential for economy and a macro game.
Are you on NA or EU?
I'll gladly throw a few 1-1-1s at you to change that opinion. Names in the sig, add me and let's scrim a few. If EU, I'll find my name out and hop on.
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Having tried a few of the builds around, i think the first guy who suggested thorzain's build was on the money, very fun, nice fe, good opportunity for a nice timing push which makes up enough ground to establish a good tank line, thx very much!
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EPT
