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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 31 2012 01:12 SaroVati wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:06 Fierytycoon wrote:
4 gate would seem to be dead through theorycrafting and build orders developed but im pretty sure ogsvines 4 gates over 50% of his PvP games in the NA ladder and is like 120-30 or something along those lines Wrong I played him yesterday for 12 points and he did a 1 gate blink rush by only getting 1 zealot and 1 stalker, and praying to god I didn't pressure him or else he would have died. It did result in a 7:00 minute blink though which is pretty impressive 
What you said doesn't make what he said wrong
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On January 31 2012 01:22 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:12 SaroVati wrote:On January 31 2012 01:06 Fierytycoon wrote:
4 gate would seem to be dead through theorycrafting and build orders developed but im pretty sure ogsvines 4 gates over 50% of his PvP games in the NA ladder and is like 120-30 or something along those lines Wrong I played him yesterday for 12 points and he did a 1 gate blink rush by only getting 1 zealot and 1 stalker, and praying to god I didn't pressure him or else he would have died. It did result in a 7:00 minute blink though which is pretty impressive What you said doesn't make what he said wrong
It really does because I've played 4-5 games with him over the past 3 days on ladder and he's never 4 gated me, usually always the blink rush or he goes 1 gate robo --> colossus on a really low unit count as well.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 31 2012 01:46 SaroVati wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:22 marvellosity wrote:On January 31 2012 01:12 SaroVati wrote:On January 31 2012 01:06 Fierytycoon wrote:
4 gate would seem to be dead through theorycrafting and build orders developed but im pretty sure ogsvines 4 gates over 50% of his PvP games in the NA ladder and is like 120-30 or something along those lines Wrong I played him yesterday for 12 points and he did a 1 gate blink rush by only getting 1 zealot and 1 stalker, and praying to god I didn't pressure him or else he would have died. It did result in a 7:00 minute blink though which is pretty impressive What you said doesn't make what he said wrong It really does because I've played 4-5 games with him over the past 3 days on ladder and he's never 4 gated me, usually always the blink rush or he goes 1 gate robo --> colossus on a really low unit count as well.
With that extra information, maybe it does. Before you said "because he didn't 4 gate me once, that for sure means he doesn't 4 gate a lot", which I'm sure you appreciate is a bit of a fallacy 
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On January 31 2012 01:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:46 SaroVati wrote:On January 31 2012 01:22 marvellosity wrote:On January 31 2012 01:12 SaroVati wrote:On January 31 2012 01:06 Fierytycoon wrote:
4 gate would seem to be dead through theorycrafting and build orders developed but im pretty sure ogsvines 4 gates over 50% of his PvP games in the NA ladder and is like 120-30 or something along those lines Wrong I played him yesterday for 12 points and he did a 1 gate blink rush by only getting 1 zealot and 1 stalker, and praying to god I didn't pressure him or else he would have died. It did result in a 7:00 minute blink though which is pretty impressive What you said doesn't make what he said wrong It really does because I've played 4-5 games with him over the past 3 days on ladder and he's never 4 gated me, usually always the blink rush or he goes 1 gate robo --> colossus on a really low unit count as well. With that extra information, maybe it does. Before you said "because he didn't 4 gate me once, that for sure means he doesn't 4 gate a lot", which I'm sure you appreciate is a bit of a fallacy
Ah okay I apologize for the misleading comment Sorry for the misunderstanding haha But yeah he doesn't always 4 gate, at least from my experience with him on ladder, but I don't doubt that he has the ability to 4 gate and win still
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
From the sounds of it, clearly you should be 4-gating *him* :D
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On January 31 2012 01:55 marvellosity wrote:
From the sounds of it, clearly you should be 4-gating *him* :D
Ah but the huge pressure he attempts to apply with his first zealot stalker and probe is amazing. I was just lucky a few games where my scouting probe managed to slip by his stalker scout and discover his fast tech. He manages to sell his 4 gate really well, and if you are doing some sort of tech build you will definitely lose to the ridiculous speed of his tech
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 31 2012 02:02 SaroVati wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:55 marvellosity wrote:
From the sounds of it, clearly you should be 4-gating *him* :D Ah but the huge pressure he attempts to apply with his first zealot stalker and probe is amazing. I was just lucky a few games where my scouting probe managed to slip by his stalker scout and discover his fast tech. He manages to sell his 4 gate really well, and if you are doing some sort of tech build you will definitely lose to the ridiculous speed of his tech
Sounds like a great way to play. Alas, I fear my APM/multi-tasking couldn't pull it off.
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I love the 1 Gate -> Twilight build! I've never come across early aggression I can't hold with it I'm only in platinum though so I don't think anyone executes a crisp 4gate. If anyone comes with the intent of killing me, I have lots of time to get a reasonable amount of sentries up. If they camp outside my base or try to contain me, blink stalker sneakyness into their base and win Thanks Alej!
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On February 03 2012 04:20 Zawmb wrote:I love the 1 Gate -> Twilight build! I've never come across early aggression I can't hold with it I'm only in platinum though so I don't think anyone executes a crisp 4gate. If anyone comes with the intent of killing me, I have lots of time to get a reasonable amount of sentries up. If they camp outside my base or try to contain me, blink stalker sneakyness into their base and win Thanks Alej!
glad to hear you are having success with it! thx for the note
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ugh does this build assume chronos? I play Z and am trying to learn a PvP build and if you don't assume 1-2 chronos early on you're just sitting on 100 energy for so long... why don't protoss players explain CB use more explicitly 
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On February 03 2012 10:03 Vei wrote:ugh does this build assume chronos? I play Z and am trying to learn a PvP build and if you don't assume 1-2 chronos early on you're just sitting on 100 energy for so long... why don't protoss players explain CB use more explicitly
Unless you are VERY aggressively 4 gating first two chronos always goes to probes. He explicitly states the next 3 cbs go to warpgate tech, then 1 to your 2nd stalker, then a 4th you your WG tech again. This is very important.
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Im high diamond and doing the PvP 11gate into 3gate pressure build most of the time. And I still win most of the games vs 1/2 gate builds. Either they let me up the ramp and just die, or they freak out a little and build to many sentries/gateways or something so I dont get behind and can follow up my 3 gates with tech/expansion.
Alej - have you done more testing against the 11 gate build? Any conclusions?
I imagine my diamond/low master opponents dont have their builds perfected, but my 11 gate isnt that perfect either most of the time...
Actually, I mostly die early to wierd cannonrushes or proxies due to my late scout these days. For me, the 11 gate handle 1/2/4 gate builds pretty darn good.
(This could kinda be discussed both here and in the 11 gate thread ^^)
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Thank you for the guide. Just one general question. When you have timings are those based upon actual times or are they based on the in game clock?
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On February 04 2012 09:40 Average Joe wrote:
Thank you for the guide. Just one general question. When you have timings are those based upon actual times or are they based on the in game clock?
game clock
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Thx for this post now i will try to stop 4gate with my normal 1gate blink play.
I have always gone for a 1gate robo if i scouted 4gate. with this build you win 100% of incoming 4gates.
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I personally feel that the 4 gate will never be dead until there is a detector built into the game that automatically causes a forfeit for a player who cuts probes, builds 4 gates and dumps all chrono on warp gates.
My reasoning is thus: similar to the 1/1/1, the player holding the 4 gate needs to play much better and much more on point than the 4 gater. Gold players will always be able to take games from platinum players with a 4 gate, in diamond I regularly win against masters with it. Is this because I am the better player? Very far from it, I am pritty bad. But in order to pull off this build or something like it and make it 4 gate proof, my opponents need to be playing much better than me.
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I'm pretty sure from the games I've seen 4 gate is still very effective at breaking fast twilight builds at mid masters and below, and probably still happens from time to time at high masters. It might not happen at the pro level but the pro level isn't the only thing that matters in this community.
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On February 05 2012 11:01 Mormagil wrote:
I personally feel that the 4 gate will never be dead until there is a detector built into the game that automatically causes a forfeit for a player who cuts probes, builds 4 gates and dumps all chrono on warp gates.
My reasoning is thus: similar to the 1/1/1, the player holding the 4 gate needs to play much better and much more on point than the 4 gater. Gold players will always be able to take games from platinum players with a 4 gate, in diamond I regularly win against masters with it. Is this because I am the better player? Very far from it, I am pritty bad. But in order to pull off this build or something like it and make it 4 gate proof, my opponents need to be playing much better than me.
I understand wat ur saying but this isn't quite true. 4gate is still strong and can punish mistakes really well, however u can hold 4gate with most builds as long as u play really cleanly and don't make mistakes with ur build order. You don't necessarily have to play much better, there's just less margin for error.
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United States8477 Posts
Here's another vod of StartaleParting doing this build: http://fr.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/306767555?t=104m34s
What I like most about this game is that Parting recognized his opponent's 2 gate pressure and didn't get a 2nd sentry in response.
Maybe add this vod and the previous vod I linked of Feast vs Hero in your OP? I think it would give this more credibility and encourage more people to try it.
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On February 07 2012 17:37 NrGmonk wrote:Here's another vod of StartaleParting doing this build: http://fr.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/306767555?t=104m34sWhat I like most about this game is that Parting recognized his opponent's 2 gate pressure and didn't get a 2nd sentry in response. Maybe add this vod and the previous vod I linked of Feast vs Hero in your OP? I think it would give this more credibility and encourage more people to try it.
That was really convincing. Parting even had the worlds most terrible offensive Blink when he first came up to the Nexus.
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EPT
