EPT[G] PvP - 4 Gate is Dead - Page 11
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monk
United States8476 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2590 Posts
On January 22 2012 08:13 Alejandrisha wrote: 4 gate isn't dead because I said it is. It's dead to you if you read the op and find that you can stop it with 1gate or 2gate tech builds. + Show Spoiler + sometimes i wonder....... Now you tell us. | ||
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Zeklas
France1 Post
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 24 2012 20:17 NrGmonk wrote: I tried this versus a 12 gate 4 gate that chronos the first stalker and sends 2 probes in exchange for a later warpin. I'm told Puzzle does this version a lot. And I have to say on maps without chokes or a ramp in your natural, this is very hard to hold. Every time, I've either mismicroed and let a probe up my ramp or lost the initial battle where I'm busy killing probes while my opponent hits with zealot/stalker/stalker when my sentry comes out mid-battle. I'm sure it's possible to hold, but it seems like it requires a lot of practice. a lot of practice and a lot of stupid losses ^^ when you get it down it's quite rewarding to hold it off with 1 gate though :D I recommend having a buddy with good enough 4gate timing to do the 2 probe variant over and over again on XNC. The approach is the easiest to execute and hardest to hold off there. If you can hold it off consistently there, then you'll never lose to it again ! | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
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JonJLSSlack
United States84 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 25 2012 11:40 SLenDeRlol wrote: wow thanks for this. Just learned the council builds. Gunna have some fun on the ladder. you're relying on 1z2s to defend early pokes with probe and then relying on ff on ramp to defend.. won't work so well with no ramp! so not 4gating is taking a big big risk here | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On January 25 2012 13:00 Alejandrisha wrote: you're relying on 1z2s to defend early pokes with probe and then relying on ff on ramp to defend.. won't work so well with no ramp! so not 4gating is taking a big big risk here I'm assuming you're responding to me, since I asked about TDA, but are there non-4gate builds that can hold 4gate on that map like 3 gate into tech or w.e? or fast immortal? just wondering. | ||
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
On January 25 2012 13:50 Kiarip wrote: I'm assuming you're responding to me, since I asked about TDA, but are there non-4gate builds that can hold 4gate on that map like 3 gate into tech or w.e? or fast immortal? just wondering. There are certain 3 gates that can defend a 4 gate on TDA, but you will always have to rely on superior micro, so if micro isn't your forte I don't recommend anything but 4 gates on that map. If you are still wondering what builds can hold (or just too lazy to hit the search  ) just reply and I'll link you  These builds definitely can't hold a 4 gate on TDA though, 100% | ||
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JonJLSSlack
United States84 Posts
On January 25 2012 11:40 SLenDeRlol wrote: wow thanks for this. Just learned the council builds. Gunna have some fun on the ladder. I'm replying to my first comment to ask for some help. When I do my 2 gate council build idk if I'm supposed to work in a robo after I start blink but I do to put aggression on my opponents. And if they do a robo build I always lose the game. Can you just quickly type up a way to play the council builds after I have blink and obs vs. robo builds? I'm really sick of losing )': | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On January 27 2012 09:50 SLenDeRlol wrote: I'm replying to my first comment to ask for some help. When I do my 2 gate council build idk if I'm supposed to work in a robo after I start blink but I do to put aggression on my opponents. And if they do a robo build I always lose the game. Can you just quickly type up a way to play the council builds after I have blink and obs vs. robo builds? I'm really sick of losing )': expand while threatening a blink into a base race, while teching to chargelot/archon | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On January 27 2012 09:50 SLenDeRlol wrote: I'm replying to my first comment to ask for some help. When I do my 2 gate council build idk if I'm supposed to work in a robo after I start blink but I do to put aggression on my opponents. And if they do a robo build I always lose the game. Can you just quickly type up a way to play the council builds after I have blink and obs vs. robo builds? I'm really sick of losing )': I wrote a post on this topic a while ago that's still a very good read. Monk wrote an even better one iirc correctly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 25 2012 14:15 SaroVati wrote: There are certain 3 gates that can defend a 4 gate on TDA, but you will always have to rely on superior micro, so if micro isn't your forte I don't recommend anything but 4 gates on that map. If you are still wondering what builds can hold (or just too lazy to hit the search ) just reply and I'll link you These builds definitely can't hold a 4 gate on TDA though, 100% aye; you can do 3 gate builds, but if you get 4gated, it's reckless to believe you ought to win that. you do the 3gate builds because you think your opponent won't 4gate you aggressively. you count on him 4gating defensively and then you outproducing him in between the time he finds out you didn't 4gate and the time it takes him to drag his ass across the map. or that he's not going to 4g you.. not shrewd assumption here | ||
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
On January 28 2012 06:12 Alejandrisha wrote: aye; you can do 3 gate builds, but if you get 4gated, it's reckless to believe you ought to win that. you do the 3gate builds because you think your opponent won't 4gate you aggressively. you count on him 4gating defensively and then you outproducing him in between the time he finds out you didn't 4gate and the time it takes him to drag his ass across the map. or that he's not going to 4g you.. not shrewd assumption here I can guarantee you I will defend your 4 with my 3. I have an entire guide based on it and have beaten top NA AND KR pros with it. I also beat kcdc on ladder yesterday with it when he tried your stargate build. This is why I wanted to practice a few games with you to play the most experienced person with the build but sadly we haven't played yet  here is a link in case you can't find it.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292003 | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On January 18 2012 09:39 OrbitalPlane wrote: I actually faced some sort of Adelscott 2-gate zealot build when i tested this build. But it was a crazy variant, he proxied his 2 gates. I dunno if you can hold it with better micro but i was not able to. Someone else has to help you out here. That was like the first time i faced such a build in hundred of games. Probably because its kinda easy to stop if you scout it. So i guess scout or speculate that you dont face it.^^ Would like to bump this question cause I asked a similar one in the Protoss help me thread! I faced a Adelscott 2-gate zealot build on Antiga, I scouted on 17 Core, and was unlucky by scouting him last. By this point, I had 1 zealot and almost 1 stalker ready. He had 3zealots at my door, another 2 coming in shortly --> so total 5zealots. He uses 3zealots against my 1zealot and probe line, and im busy microing my stalker against his other 2 zealots. I chrono another stalker, but as the zealots stream in, my 2 stalkers DPS is not enough to hold off pressure AND defend my mineral line. So would really like to know if there is a more conservative 9-pylon scout or 12-gate scout variant of these builds?? thanks! | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:24 bankai wrote: Would like to bump this question cause I asked a similar one in the Protoss help me thread! I faced a Adelscott 2-gate zealot build on Antiga, I scouted on 17 Core, and was unlucky by scouting him last. By this point, I had 1 zealot and almost 1 stalker ready. He had 3zealots at my door, another 2 coming in shortly --> so total 5zealots. He uses 3zealots against my 1zealot and probe line, and im busy microing my stalker against his other 2 zealots. I chrono another stalker, but as the zealots stream in, my 2 stalkers DPS is not enough to hold off pressure AND defend my mineral line. So would really like to know if there is a more conservative 9-pylon scout or 12-gate scout variant of these builds?? thanks! there is! 12 scout; the only differences will be you get zealot on 18 not 17 you get 2nd gas on 21 not 20 you get 3rd pylon on 25 not 24 ezpz! | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On January 30 2012 15:48 Alejandrisha wrote: there is! 12 scout; the only differences will be you get zealot on 18 not 17 you get 2nd gas on 21 not 20 you get 3rd pylon on 25 not 24 ezpz! lol wasn't expecting such a clear answer so a 12 scout will spot Adelscot builds in time even if you scout them last on big maps like Antiga?? I dont know how long the timing is but I was originally thinking you needed 9pylon scout on big maps?? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:30 bankai wrote: lol wasn't expecting such a clear answer so a 12 scout will spot Adelscot builds in time even if you scout them last on big maps like Antiga?? I dont know how long the timing is but I was originally thinking you needed 9pylon scout on big maps?? nah show me a rep of such a thing and i can be a bit more specific. i haven't seen a protoss go gate-gate core in at least 8 months so i might need to check this out O_O | ||
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Fierytycoon
United States85 Posts
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
On January 31 2012 01:06 Fierytycoon wrote: 4 gate would seem to be dead through theorycrafting and build orders developed but im pretty sure ogsvines 4 gates over 50% of his PvP games in the NA ladder and is like 120-30 or something along those lines Wrong I played him yesterday for 12 points and he did a 1 gate blink rush by only getting 1 zealot and 1 stalker, and praying to god I didn't pressure him or else he would have died. It did result in a 7:00 minute blink though which is pretty impressive | ||
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