Hi everyone, to start off I want to say that I am pretty new here so if there is anything wrong with this post just tell me.

So, on to the topic:

I am a Platinum Terran and I am having trouble against Dark Templars. I know this sounds weird because Terran is supposed to be DT-proof, but still, I am having trouble mostly because I never scout it in time.

Can anyone tell me what should I be looking for to spot if DTs are coming? What is the timing for a DT rush? What structures should a Protoss have in his main base if he is DT rushing? (Assuming he hid his tech and I can't see the Dark Shrine)

Thanks a lot in advance!

Everlong

Czech Republic1973 Posts

January 10 2012 00:17 GMT

You can go something like 1-1-1 and get an early Raven. You generally want to scout for early 2 gases and the tell here is fast twilight council, which is either blink stalkers or dts.. You can also build early engineering bay and 1-2 turrets at your ramp and mineral line, this way you are kinda safe..

Names

Canada328 Posts

January 10 2012 00:19 GMT

Hello, I don't think there's anything wrong with this post.

On the topic: The timing for DTs should be about 7 in game minutes. You should be looking for proxy pylons. I believe a protoss rushing DTs should have two geysers so if you scout an early second geyser, know that DT is a possibility. I usually save a scan around the 7 minute mark when I suspect DTs. You could also wall-in (with supply+bunker) or just hold position your units on your ramp to make sure they don't scatter DTs all over your base (and therefore forcing you to waste scans on single DTs). Hope this helps a tad!

Feos

Germany71 Posts

January 10 2012 00:24 GMT

the best way is to simply add the ebay and a turret at each base at about 6 minutes or so? seems pretty standard correct my timing plz anyone if its too far off ^^
if hes 1 base then check his unit count... if there are too few sentry/stalker, be suspicious.
check his expansion timing. if its around 6 min, i guess its another indicator.
stuctures to look for: early twilight councel and for obvious reasons dark shrine.
if a protoss has blink stalker, be always aware of the possibility of DTs (since you need TC for blink which enables dark shrine)

dont try too hard to find the structures because they are often just proxied in a corner of the map. rather count units and check timings.
still... blindly adding 1 turret at your OC(s) is not that big of a deal and will prevent you from taking too serious dmg

Flickerstreak

United States11 Posts

January 10 2012 00:25 GMT

See this slightly outdated Liquipedia entry for a general idea:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3-Gate_Dark_Templar_(PvT)

A hard DT rush can get out 3x Dark Templar at ~7:00 (watch example replays to see exactly when, it may be earlier). In order to do this, he has to cut most of his gas units: figure at max 1 sentry and 1 stalker. Anything more than that delays the DTs on the field.

Scout him at 6-7 minutes by poking up his ramp. If he hasn't expanded by then, he's either bad or doing some sort of tech rush (or a hidden expand). If you see less than 200 gas worth of units at the top of the ramp, then one possibility is a DT rush.

However, another completely different possibility is a prism drop, possibly with immortals or colossus. Or he could just be hiding his gas units in the back of his base. Remember, unless you scan his whole base (and any hidden expansions), you can never pin him on exactly what he is doing, you can only cross off what he is not doing. If you see 3+ sentries or a bunch of stalkers or an immortal @ 7 minute mark, you can conclude he's not rushing DTs.

TripleOSeven

United States106 Posts

January 10 2012 00:31 GMT

Usually, the tells of any Protoss tech cheese (voidray, dt, sometimes immortal bust type thingy) are double gas before 4 mins, and no expo by six mins. When I see double gas, I usually throw down an engineering bay even if I'm not exactly sure which cheese it is, as it can help vs both dt's and voidrays, and later, observers which help alot.

Skyro

United States1823 Posts

January 10 2012 00:32 GMT

On January 10 2012 09:17 Everlong wrote:
You can go something like 1-1-1 and get an early Raven. You generally want to scout for early 2 gases and the tell here is fast twilight council, which is either blink stalkers or dts.. You can also build early engineering bay and 1-2 turrets at your ramp and mineral line, this way you are kinda safe..

I'm not sure why you would suggest 1-base play vs DTs. Phoenix/DT is one of the hardest counters to the 1/1/1 and a lot of other Terran 1-base plays too.

dAPhREAk

Nauru12397 Posts

January 10 2012 00:35 GMT

if you scout him and see two gases and no gas heavy units (lots of stalkers or lots of sentries), and no tech structures in his base (e.g., robo) then you can guess that he is probably proxying the gas heavy stuff elsewhere. the two most common are a stargate for voids or dts. big thing to look for is how much gas they have, and what they are using it on. if you see six sentries, they are probably not going to dt you. also, luckily a counter for both voids and dts is an ebay. with properly placed turrets, you should be okay either way.

Feos

Germany71 Posts

January 10 2012 00:36 GMT

thats wrong... i agree, a late expantion is an indication for it but when he expanded at 6 minutes or so will NOT rule out DTs.

check this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=202400

4 zealots +1 stalker +1 sentry @6:10, nexus @7:06, +2 zealots +1 sentry +2 dark templar @8:00

so check him at 6 minutes... if he has more than 1 sentry and 1 stalker, his DTs are at least delayed... so after 8 min

but to be honest, i dont really know the difference between dt fe vs Z and vs T
against Z you can have:

2 zealots +3 sentries @6:16, nexus @6:22, +1 zealot +2 dark templar @7:14

so this exactly says that if he has 3 sentrys at the 6 minute mark even you cant rule out DTs at 7:14

just check his units,.,.. if they seem low on gas and/or his expansion is late or anything else stinks just build an ebay and turrets. and save 50 energy... better safe than sorry. but dont over commit to the turrets

Deleted User 135096

3624 Posts

January 10 2012 00:38 GMT

#10

Without a replay we can only provide speculation as to what your problem is and how you are or aren't handling it....Also you should go read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113479. On to DT's however, if you look at a pro's build, it usually involves getting an ebay before the 7 minute mark in case of DT's.

Just know that there are two kinds of DT openers, the DT expand builds which get DT's around the 8min mark, and the DT rush build where DT's are out by 6:46.

Honestly, you might want to just open with 2 rax pressure, that way when you make your first push (after the first marauder is out), you can put on some pressure and check to see if they are one basing, or have expanded, or see how and what kind of units they have. Gas heavy? no DT's in the near future. Only zealots or very few units (like 3 max), DT's a strong possibility.

Edit: lol ^^ beat me to it.

digmouse

China6330 Posts

January 10 2012 01:23 GMT

#11

First, when looking for help, it's best(and somewhat required by the guidelines) to post a replay of your topic, in this case, you lose to DTs.
Second, some brief advice from a Protoss perspective:
1. typical DT rushs comes at 7:15-20, with cutting edge builds (like gas first) even earlier than 7:00, it's a good habit to throw down a E-Bay followed by a Turret at 6:00.
2. any early 2nd gas and low sentry count heavily indicates the possibility of DTs, also if you scout a very early Twilight Council (like 1-gate council), he is either going Blink or DT, a scan and another scv poke is essential here.
3. If you smell the blood of DTs incoming, save 50 energy, put down a Turret at front and in your mineral line, leave some marines and 1 or 2 marauder in base should keep you safe. Even you put so many minerals in defense but deflects a DT rush puts you way ahead, even means you got a free win since he will have almost no other tech to deal with your stim push.

Micket

United Kingdom2163 Posts

January 10 2012 01:46 GMT

#12

If you do a 2 rax pressure build, you will often easily scout dts just by how your opponent handles the fight when you poke up the ramp. Sentry count, zealot count, will tell you a lot. Scouting the dark shrine is not needed to know dts are coming.

EvilTeletubby

Baltimore, USA22258 Posts

January 10 2012 02:17 GMT

#13

On January 10 2012 09:14 MadRen wrote:
Hi everyone, to start off I want to say that I am pretty new here so if there is anything wrong with this post just tell me.

There is; please read the strategy forum guidelines before posting. Most notably, you'll see that a replay should be included in any Help thread. Also, please try searching before seeking an answer to a common issue - there will be threads and even liquipedia support for you. There is also a simple questions/simply answers thread if you have small questions.