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hey my men shietfein you got lucky. i was sifting through my replays and i found one that reminded me of you
a zvt on shattered temple (1 hour and 7 minutes long)
replay
notice how he drops, nukes and harasses my bases. he managed to nuke my bases since i didnt have spores. i then fixed this mistake and the game proceeded
as you can see, my opponent had the right idea with the ghost but sadly just overextended himself and got caught in a corner, had he cleared ALL the creep before i moved in i would have died. he also didnt snipe correctly (for some reason) but you can see how quickly these ultralisks die.
you can also see in this replay why you never go battlecruisers.(corrupter demolish the air)
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I'm a +700 Masters Terran.
I think you should use a lot of planetaries to block the attack paths and mass up tanks replacing your marines with ghosts. You want to aim for a Ghost, Tank, Thor mix with a lot of barracks to resupply with MMM.
You will not be able to beat this composition on open ground so you need to exploit its vulnerability (that it cant deal with drops). This approach works on maps where you can split them easily enough like Metal and Shak. You have to force him to attack into an almost unbreakable position or else you will just whittle away at him with drops and nukes.
You should also be able to get a higher supply then him because you can get a lot of OCs once your defence is set up
Also you should get a few vikes to go overlord hunting whenever he has no mutas or infestors.
On bigger maps like Tal'Darim altar I have no idea how you deal with it because he can just get wave after wave of units and deny your 4th or hit your main.
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I've seen a lot of pro korean streamers hold off this unit composition with just marine-tank by again as mentioned before, spreading out the units to deal the maximum splash, but also by building supply depots and buildings to create walls around the map to protect your units.
It may sound like a clumsy idea and a waste of money but it is extremely effective! And of course. a few ghosts and marauders in your army would really help.
On a side note, I doubt that this type of army will really be used on the new ladder maps
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On December 16 2011 02:54 Suitup wrote:
BC Banshee will win this battle pretty one sided.
Excesdive minerals on helions for harras/blings
a single BC or Banshee to be annoying is fine, but even a moderate number of multiple BCs/banshee is so bad against this. ultra/ling/bling will clean up the undersized ground army and then ultras will be free to run around shutting bases down. The ultras can run to a PF and kill it faster than BCs and even banshees can catch up. Have you ever tried to kill ultras in your main with BCs? it takes forever, and the zerg is remaxing the whole time (and you better believe the remax will include something that hits air).
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I've been using this style for almost 3 or 4 months now, and frankly at first I thought the entire thing was overpowered. Granted if you are way behind this composition just completely crushes your face in a manner so laughable that it makes you feel like a complete and total scrub. But even if you are ahead this can be extremely devastating.
The most important thing is to constantly drop bases, keep his base count low. Generally I tend to stay on 3 bases before I get my acid shovel up, but if the attack fails I will have a fourth hatchery to saturate. If I don't there really isn't much else to do but pray he dies to the second Ultra/baneling/ling attack while taking a super late fourth. As long as you keep harassing his tech/drones/bases, you should keep him on his toes enough that eventually the losses will rack up and come back to haunt the Zerg hard.
What makes this composition work is that it does damage insanely quickly. If you have a bioball and the Banelings trickle through into it slowly, thats it, you just lost all your bio and the Ultra's will clean up your siege tanks and you'll lose. Banelings are the real hero here, not the Ultralisks. Ultra's only allow the Banelings to go untargetted by the Siege tanks, because on their own they suck a lot. The only redeeming factor for the ultra's is that the army will have basically evaporated enough that they can do damage afterwards because the standing army can't kill them off.
What you absolutely NEED at minimum is high upgrades on your bio, atleast 2/2. You also need Siege tanks to target the Baneling pockets, and only the Banelings. Ultra's aren't the important targets just yet.
What really helps is nice simcity, either by Planetary fortressing up roads or putting random barracks/supply depots there to slow the army down. This allows your Bio to retreat efficiently.
What completely destroys this composition is ravens with seeker missile. Now I know these things are expensive and they certainly can't be transitioned into from a 3 base marine tank composition easily at all, but they kill off the baneling pockets so that the only thing remaining is th Ultralisks which can be taken down by your standing army.
Ghosts are optional I feel. Yes Ultralisks are really strong and snipe deals with them well, but the army moves in so quickly that you won't be able to get off a lot of snipes anyway. You're better off using that APM for more important things like dealing with the Banelings.
It is a really hard composition to deal with, and I feel that it directly counters not-extremely-well executed ghost transitions. I hardly lose with it on the ladder, but those are the kind of people that just do a quick 1.5 base marine tank push at the start to try to end the game quickly anyway and get behind massively after that.
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1250 master zerg
what leo23 said was correct. plus plus on using tanks on ledges.
Also, build random production buildings in the middle of the map to screw with pathing. Trust me. Ultras won't break through, you'll funnel ling bane through to death.
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I play terran right around the same level.
The way I see it, there are two things you can try:
1. Mech. It's hard to get the right setup, but the late game is mind numbingly easy once you have your bases and infrastructure set up.
2. Sacrifice scvs and mass orbitals for stronger max. You should have less than 90 scvs anyways, but if you go down to about 50, a 150 food max with a mule-driven economy is much better.
That's more of a late game TvZ setup in general, but yeah, I feel ya. That unit comp feels SO broken. Late game TvZ is much harder for terran than it is for zerg. Making the change to learning mech (and I don't mean thor/hellion - - that sucks horribly. You need tanks, banshees, vikings, etc. to support) is pretty tough... But it's just fundamentally more powerful.
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Besides the obvious - structure placement to constrict movement I would also advise heavy turtle style and getting into 40+ minute game. Zerg's peak point with that style comes between 15th and 25th(30th) minute normally. Once direct attack paths are secured by the T there is the option to try and engage with nydus or(and) drops behind his lines. If that fails it is game over for the Z in most cases. Once T gets heavy in gas - transitions into mostly ghosts, ravens and BCs he has the advantage.
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Anyone rattling on about building ghosts against ultra/ling variants is barking up the wrong tree. Bio with tanks is what all the top Terrans use to deal with this. A handful of ghosts is useful to deal with infestors but snipe is much more limited against ultras than brood lords. Set up a strong position, tanks spread with a choke and planetary fortress (assuming you can afford). Be very aware of attempted nydus worms / drop harass. Ideally have 2 drops around the map at the same time to snipe hatcheries and hopefully tech structures.
You absolutely cannot move out until 3-3 against this type of play unless he gets insanely greedy mid-game.
There was a game recently between MVP and Losira which showed bio & tank vs ultras, but I cannot remember where it was played
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why are you testing with 110? Maxed armies terran will usually have a larger army because they sit around 60ish + because of mules and Zerg is 70ish+. So 140terran vs 130zerg is what you want to be testing assuming you are looking at maxed battles. I'm assuming you are because ups are at 3-3
took 1 try..
15 marauder- 30
4medivacs- 8
10 tanks- 30
42 marines - 42
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Master Zerg here.
Couple things are really important, never engage on creep and don't keep your units clumped. Zergs who like ultras tend to aggressively spread their creep, so it's important or you to aggressively deny their creep spread by sending a few marines out and scanning or adding a raven. I think you can try to turtle and play defensively with lots of tanks, PFs and OCs and getting a sort of deathball that is capable of countering infestors, ultras, and broodlords (i.e. lots of ghosts) while doing drops here and there. Or you can go almost pure bio, sinking more gas into medivacs, marauders, and eventually ghosts and quick upgrades and do lots of multipronged drops. It's especially good if zerg went quick hive but doesn't have mutas or a good number of infestors. You can pick up drops after they've killed some workers or tech structures and be really annoying with them. If the zerg really skimps on mutas and infestors, you can add in 1-2 vikings early to snipe overlords and a couple banshees with raven to stop creep tumor spread. Also, although I've never tested this out, a raven with a hunter seeker in very late game can be decent against brood lords, I suppose..
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Thorzain played a game in the Mousesports vs. Slayers match where he played this composition and he built ghosts, marauders, marines, and tanks with a few medivacs. Seems too me though it's all about engaging in narrow chokes, since ultra/ling/bling is pure melee, whereas Thorzain's comp was pure range.
The casting is garbage but the game is pretty good
Edit: the amount of bad advice and theorycrafting in this thread is unbelievable. Also, I understand that you are talking about an army that excludes infestors, but I feel that if Thorzain can beat a pro korean who has good infestor usage with this comp, you should be able to own a masters zerg that passes on infestors with this same comp. I don't understand why people think you need to switch to banshees, that is a terrible idea for so many reasons i don't even 
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Okay, the reason people have trouble winning with Ultralisks is that they are so easily countered and they can be kited pretty decently.
Marauders beat Ultralisks and are pretty good against Banelings (you still have to split your marauders, Banelings are inefficient against marauders but they are pretty good late game when resources don't matter too much)
So you can get marauders and target fire the Ultralisks or you can go Banshees. I don't generally recommend banshees unless you can manage massing up 20 without being scouted. If he scouts it, then you are screwed because he can just get Mutalisks and you lose.
So against Ultralisks, there is another flawed way with them. They are pretty big and clumsy, they have a hard time getting around. If you start massing those double pronged Marine drops, then you should have SOME success. Especially if you position the Marines behind mineral fields and then leaving when Ultralisks come. Of course, not many Zergs would send Ultralisks to deal with drops but the point stands, the zerg has a lack of anti air and you can just drop and pick up marines without losing anything.
By the way, this style is called Blitz Zerg for a reason. It is meant to break lines with a head on attack. It is pretty much all or nothing. So you should definetly try to split the map with Planetary Fortresses or make some Ravens and HSM the banelings if the game reaches that point.
So in general, Marauder/Marine/Tank will deal with Ultra/Ling/Bling. Harass a lot and keep pushing him back while you expand and make lots of barracks etc.
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When you get to 3 or 4 bases and you know zerg is on his lair tech you need to have around 5 tech lab barracks so you make ghosts if you see broodlords you can make ghosts, marauders if you see ultras and ghosts if you dont see either. I have won a very large number of tvzs because of this. Basically, mindlessly putting reactors on all your rax late game is suicide.
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On December 16 2011 05:29 Leargle wrote:
I play terran right around the same level.
The way I see it, there are two things you can try:
1. Mech. It's hard to get the right setup, but the late game is mind numbingly easy once you have your bases and infrastructure set up.
2. Sacrifice scvs and mass orbitals for stronger max. You should have less than 90 scvs anyways, but if you go down to about 50, a 150 food max with a mule-driven economy is much better.
That's more of a late game TvZ setup in general, but yeah, I feel ya. That unit comp feels SO broken. Late game TvZ is much harder for terran than it is for zerg. Making the change to learning mech (and I don't mean thor/hellion - - that sucks horribly. You need tanks, banshees, vikings, etc. to support) is pretty tough... But it's just fundamentally more powerful.
Mech is the opposite of what you want to do against this.
Ultralisks beat Tanks nicely, Zerglings surrond thors and banelings beat hellion.
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Marauders. You need marauders against ultralisks. I have almost no issues with marauder/marine/tank/medic composition. Pre spread, and concave back and forth to draw in attacks. Still must split against banes, but ultras are so huge you can semi route the banes by kiting around a side of your concave.
Ghosts do the same trick, and are more fun to use but a bit slower for me than a marauder transition. When I get 3/3 marauders out, I'm taking out hatcheries and spools/dens/warrens etc. 3/3 marauders wreck through ultras.
I also always just split my marines, let the marauders tank a bit when the banes come in.
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Ultrabanes are amazing versus Terrans.
Unless you have godly split and micro, it's quite hard to beat.
Going 15-20 siegetanks isn't viable either because any broodlord transition will absolutely crush you.
My suggestion is to build forward buildings like planetaries and bunkers.
That way, you waste the zerg's banelings when they attack in.
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On December 16 2011 06:01 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:Thorzain played a game in the Mousesports vs. Slayers match where he played this composition and he built ghosts, marauders, marines, and tanks with a few medivacs. Seems too me though it's all about engaging in narrow chokes, since ultra/ling/bling is pure melee, whereas Thorzain's comp was pure range. The casting is garbage but the game is pretty good Edit: the amount of bad advice and theorycrafting in this thread is unbelievable. Also, I understand that you are talking about an army that excludes infestors, but I feel that if Thorzain can beat a pro korean who has good infestor usage with this comp, you should be able to own a masters zerg that passes on infestors with this same comp. I don't understand why people think you need to switch to banshees, that is a terrible idea for so many reasons i don't even
Miya was terrible in that match.
He didn't use ultrabanes at all, it was just pure mass ultra with a sprinkle of banelings.
He engaged at a choke and let 8 ultras die.
He remaxed on more ultras.......no transition until his second army dies...
That was improper use of ultrabane strategy.
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On December 16 2011 03:12 BroboCop wrote:
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p.s. i had the sickest game vs drewbie most base trading in the world.
your post made me stop caring about this thread, I want that replay. give it. NAOW!
ontopic though: indeed, the ultra/baneling/ling composition is designed to dominate the ground, and it does it quite well. as a matter of fact, it consist of the 3 best ground-antiground units in the game together.
something we can find at first glance is that it does not have any anti-air capabilities, and thus an air-heavy army would do well against it even if the ground-portion of your army would die.
p.s. of course this is not recommended.
inhumane amounts of tanks are known to work, especially with good position, but is impossible to achieve ingame.
massive amounts of ghosts work, but its a bit too hard to snipe zerglings and banelings at the same rate that said zerglings and banelings are approaching your army, not to mention the impossibility of acquiring enough ghosts.
in my opinion, maruaders are the answer, maruaders do well vs ultras, ok vs banelings and not great vs zeglings, and as such pure maruaders doesn't work, also, if you were to switch your armies focus from whatever you had to mass maruaders, it would inevitably take a great deal of time.
the solution is, as someone said before me, to dabble maruaders into your army and steadily focusing on maruaders as the enemy focuses on ultras, there is no hardcounter to ultra/ling/bling other than mass air and sick positioning, and you will have to deal with that by simply outplaying him.
however, the truly scary thing is when its not just ultra/ling/bling, but ultra/ling/bling/infestor+5mutas (mutas to discourage drop play, not intended for battle) the infestor makes the game completely un-microable, and thus the one weakness of ultra/ling/bling is removed, do note that if you have mutas, then you also have a spire, so efter freeing up some supply by, say, attacking, you will easily be able to build anti-air units in the event that the enemy went for mass air.
I have absolutely no idea how you are supposed to counter that army comp.
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PF + spaced out siege tanks should be all it takes to kill zling-bling-ultra (a huge mass of marines are obviously going to be with it as well)
• Ultralisks are not cost-effective against spaced out siege tanks
• Banelings do poorly vs both siege tanks and planetary fortresses
• Zerglings don't do particularly well vs tanks, and absolutely terrible vs planetary fortress. While a critical mass of lings could kill exclusively tanks, the PFs would deal with the critical mass like a knife through butter, especially helpful considering they don't cost any supply.
• PF's can't get fungaled or neuraled, and siege tanks are very good at dealing with those effects as well (especially if you target-fire infestors).
Downsides:
• PFs are very hard to effectively pressure with
• There's a huge weakness vs mutalisks or brood lords which zerg can easily tech to and win
overall probably much better to stick with a rounded build like ghost-marauder-medivac-tank-marine, and just work on micro, scouting, and positioning.
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