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I've been doing pretty much this exact build for a long time, I thought it was standard?
Also: When I do this build I make sure to save my initial scouting probe and do a re-scout at 4:00. If he has more than 1 marine, he did not get an initial add-on to his rax after the first marine, meaning you can rule out early marauder pressures or builds such as the reactor first 2 rax. With this information, I always make a second stalker. However, if I scout only 1 marine and can't get by it to scout further in the base, I make my third unit a sentry, just to be safe.
When it comes down to it, I think what really makes the 1 gate FE work is ruling out what the terran can do based on good scouting.
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Thank you thank you thank you!!! This is exactly what i needed.
Perhaps you could go more in depth with mid game transitions? like double forge vs collosus vs fast storm?
Also, would you consider a guide on immortal expand in PvP?
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Love it. This is mostly what I do but I skip the zealot and 2nd stalker in favour of a faster nexus if I scout no gas. IMO it's also worth bringing a probe with your initial poke as you can send it up the ramp first which makes the early pressure & scout effectively risk free. You can also pop down a proxy-pylon if you scout something wonky and follow up with a delayed 4-5 gate (it'd have to be something extremely shoddy).
This seems eerily similar to kcxd's 1-gate expo, btw.
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^That all depends on what your opponent is doing.
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Wow this build order is really beautiful, the Nexus finishes right when the 2 gates finish transforming! Thanks!
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So the Immortal will always be reactive? Makes sense, considering it's pretty expensive for a "just in case" sort of item. Why not get a Nexus before the 2nd Stalker? Also, when should you make your Sentries if you see the 2 Rax coming? ASAP after WG, or are Zealot/Stalkers with an Immortal enough to hold?
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On December 13 2011 11:59 Supah wrote:
So the Immortal will always be reactive? Makes sense, considering it's pretty expensive for a "just in case" sort of item. Why not get a Nexus before the 2nd Stalker? Also, when should you make your Sentries if you see the 2 Rax coming? ASAP after WG, or are Zealot/Stalkers with an Immortal enough to hold?
Holding a standard 2 marauder 7 marine 2 rax can be done without any sentries, i've held it with 3 zealots and 2 stalkers.
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On December 13 2011 11:16 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even? Versus 1 rax gasless expand, if you follow this build exactly, your nexus will start at the same time your opponent's CC finishes. Thus, you will be quite behind.
Curious what build do you do if you scout gasless expand? Currently I go fast double stalker into contain so he can't float his CC down to his natural and it let's me kite him all the way back to my base if it's some marine-SCV all-in.
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On December 13 2011 12:22 Skyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:16 NrGmonk wrote:On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even? Versus 1 rax gasless expand, if you follow this build exactly, your nexus will start at the same time your opponent's CC finishes. Thus, you will be quite behind. Curious what build do you do if you scout gasless expand? Currently I go fast double stalker into contain so he can't float his CC down to his natural and it let's me kite him all the way back to my base if it's some marine-SCV all-in.
You could just scrap the FE plans and 5gate allin them and win if you hide the majority of your units and perhaps hide your 2 extra gateways.
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Thanks for the guide! I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of posting this on the YABOT site to try it out a few times.
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For a next guide, I'd like to see something about PvP Phoenix play. There is a ton of info already in a couple of other [D] threads but they are not complete and are somewhat contradictory (understandably so since there is more than one phoenix style).
Anyway, GJ.
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On December 13 2011 11:30 Tazerenix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:27 OxyFuel wrote:On December 13 2011 11:15 Tazerenix wrote:On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even? You don't FE at similar times. A 1 rax gasless FE is going to get the CC very quickly, a lot faster than your nexus. Even though you get your nexus quite fast with this build, it's still going to be slower. If you scout the 1 rax CC fast enough you can drop the Nexus before your second stalker, or even before your first stalker (as I've seen SaSe do on his stream) or just scrap the FE, drop 3 gateways and perhaps proxy 2 more and go for a 5 gate allin, map dependant. Yeah after I posted this I realized that getting nexus at 30 is a fair bit later then 1 rax gasless fe  . So dropping nexus before first stalker is safe vs 1 rax gasless fe? Feels greedy to me. I guess it depends on whats going on in the game though, what you scout. I think dropping before first stalker is pretty risky, It is safe if you actually see the command centre, but I wouldn't be going nexus before stalker if I didn't see the CC as I don't know if he could be 2 rax or 3 rax scv allining me.
My thoughts exactly
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On December 13 2011 11:06 CaptainHaz wrote:I find that 13/17 core has pretty much the same timing as 12/17 in terms of when you get you stalker out. Any reason for the 12 gate? Also, I'm curious what quick expand build you'd recommend if not this on certain maps. For the most part I stick to huk's 20 nexus build if I scout 2nd supply depot.His what?
Would you (or someone) mind elaborating on that? What is that indicative of and @ what timing? thanks
also, nice guide
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I do like this build against gas Terran builds, but the probe cut can be lengthy if you don't have enough scouting. I've also felt like this build does poorly against the 1-1-1 all in out of most 1-gate FEs, because it gets the nexus down at 30 and it's only just kicking in when the attack hits (the earliest variations of it). Still I think it's a very safe all-around build that can be used in a lot of situations, although it gets a fairly late nexus compared to almost any Terran FE (1 rax, gas or no gas). It's only a solid opening against a 2 rax or a tech opening (imo).
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On December 13 2011 11:39 elgringo wrote:
Thank you thank you thank you!!! This is exactly what i needed.
Perhaps you could go more in depth with mid game transitions? like double forge vs collosus vs fast storm?
Also, would you consider a guide on immortal expand in PvP?
Monk has a guide on double forge: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549
He also has a very, very indepth guide on Robo Blink Pvp, which is arguably the golden standard in Pvp right now. It is fairly effective vs all builds, unlike the immortal expand which is a bit more polarized in what it is good against and what it is terrible against.
Here is his robo blink guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772
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Can you elaborate on why you do the reactions that you do based on what you scout with the poke?
Im quite confused on the reasons why. I can only guess as to why the building order is the placement it is
For example, why, if your opponent is going for a 1 rax FE with 1 marauder do you get your two gateways down so early? Why not an earlier gas/robo?
Why is a delayed reactor/building bunker a sign of a tech build? Is it because they don't need a reactor out early as they would only use it for another building? Or is it because they don't have the economy to support it yet while they are teching up and it would mess up the build? Why is the bunker of any significance? Is it just a precaution terran players get while they are teching up and that is the first timing at which a push can come that would hurt them and they now have the resources for it?
I just don't understand why you get your buildings in the order you do based on the buildings 
Also, if your opponent didn't wall off do you think you should bring a probe along with your zlot/ stalker poke and slip it in and suicide the probe to get additional scouting information?
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MC is such a strong player. I hope he shows us why he is called the protoss president in the blizzard cup. Great guide!
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Excellent guide once again Monk!
I personally use 2 Gate Robo all the time because its so safe in getting that early observer, with not too much cost to economy unless its against gasless expands.
In terms of guides, I would like to see a similar guide to doing FFE openers verses zerg (maybe like a compilation similar to your PvP anti-4gate build thread). Alej already has a great guide on this that covers a broad game plan up until mid/late game. But given there are so many variations of FFE and follow-ups, would be great to see your detailed analysis of it too.
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On December 13 2011 14:02 bankai wrote:
Excellent guide once again Monk!
I personally use 2 Gate Robo all the time because its so safe in getting that early observer, with not too much cost to economy unless its against gasless expands.
In terms of guides, I would like to see a similar guide to doing FFE openers verses zerg (maybe like a compilation similar to your PvP anti-4gate build thread). Alej already has a great guide on this that covers a broad game plan up until mid/late game. But given there are so many variations of FFE and follow-ups, would be great to see your detailed analysis of it too.
Something like this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970
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Wow, combine this with your CreatorPrime PvT thread and you have the most magnificent PvT guide imaginable, thank you so much.
Also, thanks for explaining the superiority of the second stalker over the sentry, I never understood which was better and why.
A couple of questions though, this does transition most often into the CreatorPrime style, right? Or at least it is safe and logical to? Also, will you include more replays? Those are good but it would help to see every adaptation. And you mention that this is bad against 1 rax gasless FE, what would you advise against that, Huk's 20 food FE? Seems like you could switch to that even if you scout him last and be pretty stable.
Great guide
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EPT
