[G] 1 base robo PvZ - Page 3

Tommylew

Wales2717 Posts

December 02 2011 12:40 GMT

#41

people seem to forget this build is NON STANDARD, thats another reason it catches a lot of zergs of guard. As they dont know whats going on, what no FFE? or 3 gate sentry expand??? :D
Going to try this myself

PvZ is my worst matchup and if this works at Masters etc level the it should help bolster me to high dimaond whilei get to grips with it:D

Any chance of posting some replays? Would like to see what you do, especially when they go muta.

Ada

Germany150 Posts

December 02 2011 13:05 GMT

#42

It's a strong 1-base all-in that people still have to figure out, that's way it is sucessful I guess. But don't get me wrong, I appreciate every new style and concept to diversify the gameplay. Thanks for sharing your work.

Tommylew

Wales2717 Posts

December 02 2011 13:08 GMT

#43

On December 02 2011 19:28 FabledIntegral wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 02 2011 15:14 Conquerer67 wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:59 FabledIntegral wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:43 FLiP491 wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:30 FabledIntegral wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:24 Lobber wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:20 FabledIntegral wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:15 Lobber wrote:

On December 02 2011 10:07 FabledIntegral wrote:

On December 02 2011 09:53 Lobber wrote:
[quote]
Did you even read the post? What does 6 lings a spine and 4 queens have to do with a 10 minute large army push? Yeah a lot of queens could shut down the warprism harass but only queens to defend it is still useless as I can drop in the main and just kite them to death...

Yes, I "even read the post." Clearly I was referring to the warp prism harass. If you shut down the warp prism harass, you can drone, and shit on the push. I've faced pushes similar to what you're referring to, and you simply need to beat it with mass ling, engaging before they get to you. If you haven't been harassed prior, it shouldn't be challenging.

But that's not even true, I've done 0 damage with the warprism harass (vs someone who was purposely hard countering the build) I still beat them easily, the warpprism harass only needs to force earlier units, not actually do damage.

Ok, let me clarify since you're not seeming to get it. The reason the 4 queen build works is that it's a build that maximizes your drone count with minimal defense. The 4 queens, few lings (and maybe force a few extra, max) are enough to take on teh 1 immortal / 2 stalker, while Zerg is still droning in the entire process. It's not forcing any more units, save maybe a few lings in exchange for a few drones (which is normal vs 1 base anyways, even fi you don't harass), and he's going to be massively droning.

No I understand the spanishiwa style, it doesn't really work that well and it's not popular anymore, but even if he does that I have a warprism and he has slow lings, I can kite him forever and never take damage on my units, I don't have to engage at the spine, so he wastes money and a drone on a spine or 2 at the from, and 3 on lings, then he has to build more and more lings to hold my push, and by my push he might not even have speed for lings or anything... It just wouldn't work vs the push or drop.

Immortals and stalkers only tickle queens,

wat?

Queen: High Health. Stalkers deal 10 dmg, Immortals 20. You have multiple queens (aka 4) with transfuse, they're not going down.

Yeah, you've been right for this entire post chain Integral. I just think that the OP fails to recognize that, even with the recent buff to prism shields, queens can still shit on them and anything besides zealots or DTs that are inside them. Especially if you 3 or 4.

However, most people, as you said, don't go straight-up

Spanishiwa to the bone build anymore (16H/15P?), but if you use the same concept, then you will be able to counter this build and then exploit your econ bonus to do whatever. By which I mean that they FE by any means (11P/18H or 14P/16H), stay gasless until a relatively high supply, and get 3 or 4 queens and a small amount of lings and spines stop attacks in the front. Do that, and pure roach ling can hold it off.

The immortal timing in itself is surprisingly strong. I always open with extra queens, but I think the biggest thing for me when scouting 1 gate robo would be wondering if it's going to be this immortal play, or colossus play, or even somehow a 2gate robo expo.

yeh thats great theory crafting but what zerg keeps all 4 queens together? Also wouldnt when this comes, 2 will be injecting lava and im presuming another 2 may be dropping tumours and you may also have only one or two transfuses unless you see this coming and have saved them up. Also wouldnt you then focus the queen with most mana so perhaps others may get one off. If you know this is coming at the start of the game its easy to say yeh 4 queens stop this, but in game, it can be quite differnet. Again im theory crafting just like you are, but shitting on a build which before injects and dropping tumers you may not actually see it till he has dropped and already focusing one fo thw two queens in your main. Im only going on the drop part. as immortals do quite well, also you have the choice of warp prism into phase mode and warp in 4 zeals to target the queens.. again im theory crafting same as you :D

DunD

Australia9 Posts

December 02 2011 13:12 GMT

#44

Since we are on TL, I guess I should go with: "this won't work vs. blah blah bloop build no one does, so it is bad". Honestly this looks really cool and really unique. The warp prism harass must be a real micro battle and important to take advantage of but for masters that shouldn't be a problem. I can't really be bothered going to the hassle of downloading a replay pack, individuals or youtube or something would be handy. Overall really cool build and very unique, I haven't seen anything that similar.

Mellon

Sweden917 Posts

December 02 2011 14:15 GMT

#45

Watches about 10 replays and im impressed! I mean, it's really strong since many wont know how to react proper to it. It forces a reaction which would probably be really early hydras or something like that.. I'm gonna try it tonight and see how i like it. I love macro games, but doing it vs Zerg is really hard so been trying around with different pressure tactics, this might work!

Thanks for upload

Kamikiri

United States1319 Posts

December 02 2011 14:18 GMT

#46

This build looks really strong, I haven't run into it before my self on the ladder but it looks like a very strong build and one that is great to pull out in a boX situation. IT looks like it would be difficult to execute properly.

CygNus X-1

Canada169 Posts

December 02 2011 14:21 GMT

#47

Saw Lobber use it against Machine in the Playhem Daily yesterday. Machine had no clue what was going on when he tried to scout. He guessed warp prisms but he couldnt hold the push. Machine said after the game he lost due to not droning enough. It looked like a really unique and strong build. Worth a try for sure.

flyguy

United States45 Posts

December 02 2011 14:51 GMT

#48

I'm curious if you can do the same opening but rather than build a 1 base army just expand behind the harrass.

BestFriends

Canada133 Posts

December 02 2011 15:03 GMT

#49

Damn you showing this build to the masses!

Xanatoss

Germany539 Posts

December 02 2011 15:24 GMT

#50

Watched most of the replays now. By reading your description of the build I assumed your Drop has a massive influence on the gameflow but it turned out that (unless Close-Air) by the time it reaches the opponents base (~8:00) most Zergs already have some Units out anyways. So the damage Zerg takes from Prism-Harass depends mostly on his own faults or overreaction. Like others said, more Queens seems the way to go, especially because they are useful against all 1 Base Builds anyways.
Nevertheless Prism-Harass was able to create up to 1000 Ressources of Eco damage and therefore is a great way to extend the purpose of P's early Units.

I think with proper execution, incorperating the lowground forge makes this way better. The pushes reach Z that late, even +1/+1 could be finished by then, greatly enhancing their strength. In addition P is completly safe against early Pools, has the Ability to Cannon-Rush Z's Natural and a possible Transition by expanding next the the already established wall (the point I dislike the most about your build).

2nd Warpprism might be a useful addition, allowing for more Immortal Micro and the ability to warp in single zealots into an exposed mineral-line and picking up more units in case the push gets overwhelmed.

covetousrat

2109 Posts

December 02 2011 15:54 GMT

#51

One of the most interesting all in you have come out with. I have been having a lot of troubles in my PvZ lately and in GM. Will be testing this strategy intensively. Watch some of the replays and I'm really impressed. This kinda reminds me of the infamous 1-1-1 where you know its coming and still die to it. I will be looking into this.

Thank you so much. Cheers!!

Mikelius

Germany517 Posts

December 02 2011 16:55 GMT

#52

Lobber, if you were to make this build not all in and wanted to go into a macro game, what modifications would you do in order to secure more bases while still beating the snot out of the zerg's economy early game?

Alpino

Brazil4390 Posts

December 02 2011 18:25 GMT

#53

Oh fuck this, it sounds scary )): . I hope people in diamond don't try this.

TylerThaCreator

United States906 Posts

December 02 2011 18:37 GMT

#54

On December 03 2011 01:55 Mikelius wrote:
Lobber, if you were to make this build not all in and wanted to go into a macro game, what modifications would you do in order to secure more bases while still beating the snot out of the zerg's economy early game?

lol. the whole point of the build is that its a strong 1 base allin. if you don't cause incredible damage (kill nat, half drones) then you might be fucked. you just tech if they're able to go muta or hydra.

Flonomenalz

Nigeria3519 Posts

December 02 2011 18:53 GMT

#55

4+ queens is so underused in ZvP... This is a very powerful 1 base all in that definitely catches Zergs off guard. I think the answer is losing very little to the WP harass, then going mass ling mass spine while teching to muta (to prevent toss from expanding after/if you hold the all in.

freetgy

1720 Posts

December 02 2011 19:04 GMT

#56

all i see in those replays is that you opponents are bad at adapting at what they scout, i mean like 1 protoss base play for over 8-9 mins and during the army engagement you have like 50% or even 100% more Army value is ridiculous bad imho...

GoldenH

1115 Posts

December 02 2011 21:04 GMT

#57

On December 02 2011 21:40 Tommylew wrote:
people seem to forget this build is NON STANDARD, thats another reason it catches a lot of zergs of guard. As they dont know whats going on, what no FFE? or 3 gate sentry expand??? :D
Going to try this myself

It actually doesn't matter if its standard or not. I use a similar build as one of my PvZ builds, and I play masters level Z players on my friends who say its one of the most annoying things to deal with in my arsenal.

terranmoccasin

United States74 Posts

December 02 2011 21:16 GMT

#58

On December 03 2011 04:04 freetgy wrote:
all i see in those replays is that you opponents are bad at adapting at what they scout, i mean like 1 protoss base play for over 8-9 mins and during the army engagement you have like 50% or even 100% more Army value is ridiculous bad imho...

It's a lot easier to say a player is "bad" when watching a replay. I'd like to see you take down GM/Pro players like EG.Machine yourself. This build is a great build and fits perfectly into the current PvZ metagame of FFE on nearly every single map. I do believe that it will be figured out soon, but until it is widely used on the ladder, it will probably be an abusive strategy to farm wins with.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

December 02 2011 21:24 GMT

#59

I don't really see why this should be a good attack. Basically it's quite a late 1 base immortal + gateway all-in using a warp prism? I don't see why simple roach/ling shouldn't beat this..
If zerg doesn't see a protoss expansion around 5:45 they should always be massing roach/ling. I guess it can be difficult for zerg to guess what you are doing as robo on 1 base is really uncommon so they might be expecting air or DT play forcing them into useless spores. Spine wall defense is also quite common which should be pretty useless too against warp prism.

SethDrone

United States51 Posts

December 02 2011 22:32 GMT

#60

lol, I love you for this guide. PvZ is such a nightmare, so far I'm just testing it out and already 4/4 wins.

And for the comments about spine walls...they are a joke. If you focus fire them with the stalker/immortal group they die almost instantly and you can usually FF the zergs force behind them.

<3

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