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Hi TL, On HongUnPrimes Stream I saw him perform a build that consisted of 3 Nexus off 2 base against an unknown zerg (to me anyway) , which in my opinion is unreal and very unorthodox. Unfortunately I didn't get to see the whole game. I think he started with a forge fast expand. Afterwards he got a nexus for extra chrono and probes. He proceeded to get 3 Forges!! He started to get triple ups. He continued to chrono his upgrades until he had 3-3-3. He built his third around thirteen minutes. Note this game was on Antiga Shipyard creating an easier expand due to how close it is.
Ignoring what the other player decided to do what do you TL think of what HongUnPrime did? Is it worth it to get three nexus for just chrono and extra probes? Could this be valid in HOTS since the nexus will have 2 more abilties?
Discuss
Also, if anyone else has the Replay or Vod of this game please send to me so I can post thanks
[EDIT.. note I am not the greatest thread creator, so don't be too harsh on my grammar I just would really like to know what others thought of this.]
Here is the stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/HongUn watch him right now
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first of all. Yes i believe nexus will be used maybe more than now cuz of the abilities but can you please give me link to the VoDs of that game? i am realy intrested in watching it o.o
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Sounds really interesting. Tee most astounding thing is hearing that HongUn is building probes past the 8 minute mark! XD
Hasn't been explored yet, and probably has excellent mid-late game transitions because of superhigh saturations.
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I wish i could find it i have been looking if someone who has the vod please post
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Yeah, i was thinking about it sometimes to do nexus first in my main against terran, but just like triple nexus for ugrades it just pays off if you dont get pressured. And if you get forced to stay on 2 base for a while the triple probe production just dont pay off and you wasted basicly 4 zelots and a ton of mins for unusable probes...
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Lol it seems so weird vs terran but it has never been explored so I'm thinking it could work. Although I am only low masters i don't have the calibre to put together these sorts of builds
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Sounds like you better pray that you don't get scouted doing this since there would be a huge timing in which you have nothing and can do nothing. If the zerg stopped you from taking a third to actually use those extra probes then you essentially spent 400 mins for chronoboost, and I'm not sure it's worth it at all.
On a side note, I think we'll see a lot more double forge play against zerg. It seems like everyone has always just gone attack upgrades v zerg and never try any double upgrades (even maybe even triple since shields will be good versus zerg when paired with blink stalkers). It's extremely effective versus terran, though if your opponent is going mostly roaches it might not benefit as much.
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Cats showed the 'macro nexus' on his stream around 2 months ago, and he doesn't even play Protoss. Anyhow, his idea was having a 140 food army by the ~16 minute mark(slightly before). But ya not triple forge lol, off 2base? Hard to tech with 3 forges pumping
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Doesn't hongun always mess around on his stream and do crazy builds like mass carrier just because he can?
I don't see getting a macro nexus viable because by the time you get 2 bases of probes saturated using the chrono boost from the nexuses the extra one hasn't really paid for its self.
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Macro nexus into triple ups? That does sound interesting..... shield upgrades are a lot more powerful than people give them credit for, though before the patch they cost way too much. For those saying it's a waste and 4 zealots is better, unless you actually DO something with those zealots, than the nexus is actually doing more for you, and probes can pay for themselves with mining.
Only zealots and collosus have less shield than hp on the ground(only 50 less shield than health for each). Immortals too technically, but they have the hardened shield; even though the upgrades happen before hardened shield such that a stalker would still deal only 10 damage, the strength of the shield is against slow strong attacks and weakness of hardened shield is fast small attacks like a marine, zealot, zergling, thus shield upgrades reduce the damage taken from the sources that the immortal is weakest against.
Chrono boost is also really good; normally, time is the one resource you will never get more of. With three nexii of chrono on three forges, the upgrade advantage could swing quite high. It is literally impossible for the other player to keep up to par on upgrades, since protoss can alter time to get those upgrades faster than they can.
Hopefully someone will find the VOD soon and we can see how he stays safe from attack while powering so hard.
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I think the nexus is mainly for extra cb for the third forge, it probably would allow you to hit certain timings in the mid or late game, maybe +2/2/2 finishes right in time for a big roach push and 3/3/3 finishes just as you get maxed instead of slightly later.
As said it could also be him experimenting even though it isn't particularly a good build yet, or maybe even ever. This is how good builds are created though, through testing ridiculous ideas. Think of how bad 1-2 reapers was against zerg in beta, but then players make 15 of them and it turned out to be imbalanced.
You guys should work it out in a custom game, figure some timings you want to line up for a defensive macro game and try to make it safe vs everything, or safe until you get good scouting or something.
I think this build if you delayed gas a bit could reach full saturation in time to pay for the extra nexus, then with 3 forges being chronoed you could perhaps catch up then surpass Zerg in upgrades.
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With the new patch and the cheaper upgrades this could be interesting. But I'm not sure its worth it getting another nexus just to chrono boost like mad
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On November 11 2011 08:33 Whiplash wrote:
Doesn't hongun always mess around on his stream and do crazy builds like mass carrier just because he can?
I don't see getting a macro nexus viable because by the time you get 2 bases of probes saturated using the chrono boost from the nexuses the extra one hasn't really paid for its self.
I'm pretty sure he built carriers etc at mlg in big stage matches. Although he may have been screwing around then too :o
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Your supposed to get the 3rd nexus on around 28 supply, the chrono probes to 60, which happens pretty damn fast. I think it's more viable for a 2 base all in rather than a macro game, but who knows. It's hard to give chronoboost an economic value because it can be used on so many different things (probes forge gateways).
There's no point chronoboosting upgrades if you arnt going to use that advantage (timing push). Maybe with 3 nexus you can delay a timing push that originally +1 into a +2 timing Attack by ~ 45 seconds with constant chrono.
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On November 11 2011 08:33 Whiplash wrote:
Doesn't hongun always mess around on his stream and do crazy builds like mass carrier just because he can?
I don't see getting a macro nexus viable because by the time you get 2 bases of probes saturated using the chrono boost from the nexuses the extra one hasn't really paid for its self.
I seriously don't think he was messing around he played a really solid game. The other guy got really fast mutalisks off 3 base I believe and Hongun was able to get cannons and stalkers fast enough to help defend the harass and then take a third. The other was masssing mutas and lings and tried to deny it but muta ling isn't too good vs Forcefields and guardian shield.
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Macro nexuses convert minerals to gas by reducing the number of production facilities required to build tech units. The trade is hard to quantify because it takes 2 nexuses to constantly chrono each production fac and reduce build time by 1/3, so the conversion is something like 1600minerals for 100-150 gas when you're on 2 production facilities building as though you had 3 facilities un-chronoboosted.
They can also be used to convert minerals into time like HongUn did on his stream.
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I saw Catz do this when he was drunk and playing Protoss a week or so ago. He did FFE, got 3 Nexii and like 30 probes for each base (3 probes per patch = absolute maximum efficiency, but not much more than 2 per patch) and went voidray / colossus / stalker and walked out of his base, started a third and crushed Zerg horribly. I don't know if it's totally viable, but it's kind of interesting.
Could be good if you did Cruncher build and chrono upgrades like crazy (lol). It just comes down to asking yourself if you would pay 400 minerals to get your upgrades / tech units faster and get more probes faster, or use the 400 minerals to do something that you know is viable.
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That's why I love Hongun xD
But this seems incredibly gimmicky lol - if this was HOTS where there is arc shield/recall then I can see a macro nexus being worthwhile, but WoL? nah...
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I remember Artosis talking about how he hoped getting a macro Nexus would be a viable strat and talking about how it would confuse people when they scouted his base  .
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EPT
