EPT[G] CvZ : Immortal Blink Templar - Page 2
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
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Snusdosa
Sweden112 Posts
On October 11 2011 20:01 Flonomenalz wrote: Um, you're just a LOT better than the players you are facing. However... this just flat out loses to Roach/Hydra off of 3 base. You delay storm tech and Colossi.... yeah I can't see you beating a basic Roach Hydra composition that keeps up on upgrades. The metagame has moved pretty far away from roach/hydra, i think with the fast observers it would be very easy to change the gameplan if your opponent goes for pure roach/hydra, get faster colossus, grab a third and turtle to a bigger army. | ||
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.Sic.
Korea (South)497 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:00 Snusdosa wrote: The metagame has moved pretty far away from roach/hydra, i think with the fast observers it would be very easy to change the gameplan if your opponent goes for pure roach/hydra, get faster colossus, grab a third and turtle to a bigger army. I disagree the the metagame is moving away from roach hydra... as a matter of fact, i see less and less toss players use colossi in their unit comp. Also, it's easier for zerg to tech switch if the player's smart about how he/she is getting the upgrades. Also, this is just a standard unit comp that counters muta ling. infestor roach, roach hydra, and even roach ling can counter this without much difficulty... throw in a few corruptors to counter warp prisms if you can (toss is getting so much tech that it might not be too hard to throw down a spire without getting behind). | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:11 .Sic. wrote: I disagree the the metagame is moving away from roach hydra... as a matter of fact, i see less and less toss players use colossi in their unit comp. Also, it's easier for zerg to tech switch if the player's smart about how he/she is getting the upgrades. Also, this is just a standard unit comp that counters muta ling. infestor roach, roach hydra, and even roach ling can counter this without much difficulty... throw in a few corruptors to counter warp prisms if you can (toss is getting so much tech that it might not be too hard to throw down a spire without getting behind). How would roaches be good vs a build that gets fast blink/immortal, and eventually double robo immortal? Anyway, cool stuff. I have been trying to get a decent immortal/templar pvz build for a long time, and so far the attempts at coming up with my own builds are pretty awful Thanks a lot for all your guides! | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On October 11 2011 15:11 CecilSunkure wrote: Imagine you have Immortals in PvZ. What are they bad against? Lings, Mutalisks, and Broodlords (most things are bad against Broodlords though). So, if you want to make Immortals, what unit would have great synergy with them? Archons of course! Imagine an army in PvZ made with Archon/Immortals. This army is extremely tough um..i'm just a diamond newbie, but aren't you forgetting about hydras? They are great counter to every of your three units. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:27 ondik wrote: um..i'm just a diamond newbie, but aren't you forgetting about hydras? They are great counter to every of your three units. He mentions this in his OP. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On October 11 2011 22:27 ondik wrote: um..i'm just a diamond newbie, but aren't you forgetting about hydras? They are great counter to every of your three units. You would think they would, but 3 immortals will tear through a hydra line with the sentry shield and if you scatter force fields to prevent a concave. They either 2 hit or 3 hit hydras, i think it is 2 hit with +2 weapons but i'll have to verify | ||
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
Although, personally, i've died to mass roach/hydra so many times while trying this that I think teching to HT right after you get your third would be a good plan. Aoe is needed a little sooner I think. | ||
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Snusdosa
Sweden112 Posts
I disagree the the metagame is moving away from roach hydra... as a matter of fact, i see less and less toss players use colossi in their unit comp. Also, it's easier for zerg to tech switch if the player's smart about how he/she is getting the upgrades. Yeah less toss players are going straight to gateway + colossus, but compare ZvP now versus ZvP 5-6 months ago, it was nothing by roach/hydra/corruptor, nowadays we have a lot more ling play, banelings are seeing use as well and infestors are extremely common as well. Also, this is just a standard unit comp that counters muta ling. infestor roach, roach hydra, and even roach ling can counter this without much difficulty... throw in a few corruptors to counter warp prisms if you can (toss is getting so much tech that it might not be too hard to throw down a spire without getting behind). The only comp that would be able to counter this is roach/hydra. You need the hydra dps vs the archons and the immortals, fungal doesn't deal neatly enough damage to those two units, and roaches get crushed by this unit composition. Roach ling no, forcefields. Get a spire and corruptors because of two potential warp prisms? Thats like getting phoenixes strictly to prevent medivacs. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On October 11 2011 20:10 Plexa wrote: Mmmm  where did you hear that before cecil?Besides, I think this is vulnerable to a number of Zerg strategies (macro roach, hydras, a good mutaling) - if they hold off your harass without significant loss then the game is over I think. Hhaha yeah.. Although against macro roaches, you just get a Second Robo before your third. Walla ez win. Against Hydras I go Chargelot Archon DT, and crush players (I also favor more upgrades), and try to get HT/Storm asap. I've faired just fine so far. And to everyone saying I'm just a lot better than my opponents, well these guys are pretty high on NA ladder, so if you mimic my play currently seen in these replays you'll hit the top few hundred of NA at least. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
I've also been favoring a non-Colossi centric PvZ-style, but instead use a heavier Zealot composition instead of Stalkers and Sentries. This frees up the gas to get HT and upgrades much faster so you don't need to get a 3rd base to afford them. Zealot-Immortal is very effective vs mass Roach and the fast HT completely stomps the common Zerg response of a Hydra tech switch which you say catches you off-guard at times. The fast upgrades also makes your Zealot harass much more effective. With optimal timing I can be in the Zerg's main with a Prism, +1/+1 done and 7 Warp Gates ready at 9 mins out of a FFE(usually a little later than that because who can ever get optimal timings down in a real game). This timing for this harass is IMO crucial if you see only lings as early defense since this is right before his tech kicks in (mutas or infestors) on 2-base, and you can do serious damage with +1/+1 Zealots if they only have lings available to defend (also gets around the gazillion spine crawlers they usually have at their front when going mutaling or infestorling ^^). | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
If you don't like cutting upgrades till 3 base, you can delay blink by about a minute and go for a Forge before Twilight! I do this very often! With a FFE, you better be getting upgrades and chronoing them hard (like my Tal'Darim replay). This is more of a style of play, not necessarily a build inscribed in the Tablets of Moses. As such it's versatile. All my builds I play with are highly versatile as of late. Even my PvP is highly versatile. | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:44 CecilSunkure wrote: This is more of a style of play, not necessarily a build inscribed in the Tablets of Moses. As such it's versatile. All my builds I play with are highly versatile as of late. Even my PvP is highly versatile. Which is imho very good due to how a game of SC eventually wont be "Player X makes these units and attack and win/loose the game" as we can see more and more as time pass by and players improve. I've been toying around with similar builds in the past and indeed hydras was a often a big problem, aswell as good muta play. Yes blink is good, but nothing shuts down mapcontrol like some neat phoenix play, which is a reason why I have a hard time to steer away from my double stargate zealot/(immo) into templar play. Regardless, I'm taking away alot from this guide, like with most of your guides and thank you for it <3! | ||
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Darthsanta13
United States564 Posts
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kusu
Sweden440 Posts
strong build/composition! | ||
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
If you research hallucination, you can fake a moderate number colossus (1-3) and go poke the xel naga towers/ clear out creep, and this should fool the zerg enough to keep them from massing up hydras works like a charm for me | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
On October 12 2011 07:10 Lore-Fighting wrote: I feel like this warp prizm play is gonna be shut down hard when zergs start patrolling coruptors. Is there any way you could use pheonix to replace the wp harrass? I would call having some useless 150/100 AA units patrolling his base to stop a 200mineral unit, a success for me. | ||
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MK4512
Canada938 Posts
Just a little note about unit compositions: I've been using hero(?) style that I've modified (5-7 gate blink stalker pressure into (10-12 min) third base -> HT + Warp Prism harrass -> endgame chargelot archon immortal HT w/ a bit of blink) and I've found that blink stalker + high templar gives more ability to harrass before warp prisms, and imo greater defensive capability with storm than archons can provide (FF + storm = great def, especially with a wall!) Of course this doesn't lead to a direct engagement until alot later, but is more 'harrasy' imo. | ||
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