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On October 03 2011 03:00 Havefa1th wrote:
You say that the void ray will clean up roach/ling all-ins, but from your replay you barely had any units at the time it would hit. I feel like a baneling bust/roach bust would just kill you because you don't have enough stuff to clean it up/prevent it forever.
Also, I feel like if the mothership dies or runs out of energy and you're not ahead economically, you're in trouble.
I don't know, I like the feel of the build but I feel that if whatever you try doesn't turn out exactly as you planned, you're behind.
I get raped pretty hard by a roach push off 2 bases in the recent replay I provided due to me being greedy with my void ray. You should check that replay out.
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You say that the void ray will clean up roach/ling all-ins, but from your replay you barely had any units at the time it would hit. I feel like a baneling bust/roach bust would just kill you because you don't have enough stuff to clean it up/prevent it forever.
Couldn't he just pull a "Great Wall of Hongun"? That is, there's a famous HongUn game where he had like 1 Void vs. a sizable Roach all-in, and he just spammed pylons to create a continual wall (that is, each time the Roaches got through a building he just put another one behind it) while his Void got charged up and cleaned up the push--its hugely mineral heavy, but if the Z is legitimately going all-in it could be worth it.
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Huh, you get +6 damage on the mothership and +16 damage for carriers for each +1 air weapons. Might be something to look into if you haven't already if you want to go carriuuuu.
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On October 03 2011 02:56 the p00n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 02:42 ForeverSleep wrote:
btw, i would like to know, do you use that strategy on taldarim? if yes, do you just pick it up it from a ffe? I do not FFE ever. I have found, during rigorous testing, that a good double expand build (i.e. ret vs naniwa finals blizzcon) is uncounterable unless you catch your opponent off guard (i.e. DTs, a really strange timing, ...,).
so do you go strait 1 gate expo too on taldarim? ( i guess you can if you actually start your wall at the choke) makes sense
On October 03 2011 03:40 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Huh, you get +6 damage on the mothership and +16 damage for carriers for each +1 air weapons. Might be something to look into if you haven't already if you want to go carriuuuu.
but then again, each armor upgrade on the enemy nullifies the +16 completely
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made me laugh, vortex and send everything inside.. also in masters def gonna hit this up asap
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PvZ has been nothing but frustrating for me. Time to give this a try. Heck even if I only win 20% of my games that still an upgrade from 1 game out of 20.
I actually play both and had a Protoss not do this, but a different mothership play (mothership with stalkers and zealots, into archons later on), and it was insanely difficult to deal with.
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I love the analysis of how you figured the build, nice read, excelent strat thread :D
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On October 02 2011 20:21 Escoffier wrote:5600 = 5.6 thousand, no s
You say "five thousand resources" but you still refer to it as "thousands" of resources. Same with 1.3.
Anyway, back to the OP - I still really don't like the heavy reliance on only 2 vortexes. The whole game is banking on the zerg somewhat clumping up their army, and you getting off 2 perfect vortexes to kill their entire army (if it gets to a situation where they have get to mass infestor/bl/corruptor). If you somehow mess up, the zerg can remax much faster than you can regen your energy for another vortex.
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I actually can't wait to try this out, thanks for doing the hard work figuring a workable build out :D
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Another trick i think yall should note, is if you attack a Z's base , forcefield the ramp of his main and hve the mothership use mass recall inside his main. vVvTime does it a lot on his stream
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On October 03 2011 03:00 Havefa1th wrote:
You say that the void ray will clean up roach/ling all-ins, but from your replay you barely had any units at the time it would hit. I feel like a baneling bust/roach bust would just kill you because you don't have enough stuff to clean it up/prevent it forever.
Also, I feel like if the mothership dies or runs out of energy and you're not ahead economically, you're in trouble.
I don't know, I like the feel of the build but I feel that if whatever you try doesn't turn out exactly as you planned, you're behind.
oh ok, so I guess Zerg will now have to baneling bust/roach bust every game. Honestly though, statements like that are ridicilous. It's like saying "won't early pool beat nexus first every time???"
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I am currently rewriting the whole topic. Stay tuned and make sure to give it a re-read, it will be much better and structured.
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This isn't that hard to beat, it is hard if you don't know what to do. if you decide to camp until mothership most zergs have scouted the fleet beacon by then and have taken the entire map... Then they get 30 corruptors 1-shot the mothership, then they reinforce with mass roach. Its the zergs who over-react the the zealot archon and get the roaches before corruptors.
Good scouting and knowing exactly what to do beat this build (which makes it a good build)
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http://drop.sc/40109
Macro game vs Zerg who I let get a 15 Hatch first, and a very fast third. He intelligently went Ultra/Banelings... I still absolutely crushed him.
Note that this is my first time trying this build aside from a single practice game vs AI.
Also, we were both 1300+ Master players.
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I opened double stargate and after realizing i wouldent end the game with just that, i remembered this thread
I executed the build with little enthusiasm playing at like 30apm and still won this game very easily
I ALMOST felt bad doing this but then i remembered the patch 1.3 infestors and immediately didnt care anymore
13-1400 Master's Div. Rank #2
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-235472.jpg)
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Here's a replay of my abysmal platinum play with this build against a standard zerg player. This is perhaps the most fun I've ever had playing SC2. I began to view the mothership as the coach from Rocky, where against the compositions I was facing normally all of my gateway units would get dominated by the zerg forces but the mothership screams "HIT 'EM ROCK" as it cloaks everything and then my gateway units would pummel their zergy asses. And also like the Rocky coach, my mothership would die in the middle of a fight, leaving my motivated gateway units behind as its legacy. I ended up getting 3 coaches that game as they kept dying to hydras. After one vortex, the zerg dropped over 70 supply, and over 60 in another.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-235476.jpg)
Seriously, thanks for this build. I haven't won a ZvP in 2 weeks and was super frustrated. I had 2 build order losses earlier today as the zergs 6pooled and I scouted them last, and lost because I didn't chrono out a zealot in time to block or get a tight walloff. Things like that have made me basically give up on PvZ but this has made me want to play it again, even if I lose, because it's actually fun.
Edit: Also, unlike the guy the guy 2 posts above me, I do not feel bad. I've been 6pooled, roach-ling all-inned, roach/baneling all-inned, hydra busted, 2 base infestor/ling all-inned non-stop for the last 2 weeks straight. I haven't had a straight up game in so long. It's nice to be in control of PvZ for once, instead of feeling like I can't do anything without dying. It seems like they need at least 2-3 overseers to even attempt to engage you or else they'll just die to your units.
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One thing to note - most people keep all of their overseers grouped up, even if they have 3+ of them.
A vortex right on top of the overseers followed by a-move is VERY deadly as +3 invisible Archons... well the zerg might as well not have an army.
Also, first game I did this strategy I killed a 200/200 hydra/ling/infestor army losing only 5 zealots in the fight... (The infestors didn't cast anything as I think the zerg was like... What... is.. this...)
Thank you for the awesome guide and the great strategy :-)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yxZif.jpg)
