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Bonham
Canada655 Posts
On October 18 2011 02:06 buldermar wrote: Furthermore, as I believe I explained, stating that one can play at the GM level without ever having been in GM league is <b>tautologically a self-contradiction, both rhetorically and logically.</b> Oh god, I'm revoking your English language license. | ||
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Gerike
Hungary14 Posts
On October 19 2011 22:45 FairForever wrote: Actually hydras are pretty shit against it. But yes it's a lot easier to deal with once you've practiced against it. I'm 6-1 or 7-1 against Mothership builds after losing my first two games against it (I played 5 games against a practice partner doing this build), all but one coming out of 1gate expand (the other was a FFE) Honestly most people recommend corrupters, I personally like mutalisks on any map that is bigger (I even did it on midsize maps like Antiga) because you can win ANY base race against a protoss, just mass up the hatcheries in various locations around the map and use a mutaling army to really tear apart their base (or part of their army if they try and split, kill the part without the mothership). i totally agree with ya , muta play is the hardest to deal with for me. and actually vs any zerg who dont run on ya at chokes or be able to split hes units a lil bit + add splash ( bane or ultra or both ) can couse trouble. i had a to play like 10 games to get the feeling of the style. | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
edit: and another game, this guy went roach-hydra after I 1-gate expoed. This build feels almost too strong, it seems like as long as I get down a vortex I'll win the battle with double the supply at the end of it. Really impressive! final edit: 3rd time trying the build and I crush a masters league zerg going ling-infestor. WOW this is amazing... | ||
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bikefrog
Norway451 Posts
On October 20 2011 01:23 ZaloMonkada wrote: Lol kiwikakai didnt go archons till the last 10 minutes of the game when he was running out of mins. the majority of the game he went stalker void colossi which is hugely inefficient against the billions of broodlords that stephano had that game. The moment he landed a good vortex with his archons, he came out ahead against a higher supply army. If you're going to call someone out for lacing knowledge, try to actually back up your post with facts. I dont understand why everyone is so worked up about him being or not being GM, the build is cool and its that which should discussed lol, not his credentials Also, i lost a game the other day where the zerg threw buttloads of infested terrans right outside the vortex and ran away. It seems like if you keep your infestors separate, the infested terrans can decimate your army but it all comes down to a micro fight and landing clutch vortexes imo. 1. He did not make the army he did to directly engage the broodlords. You saw how he ended up after that battle. Had he engaged with archons earlier with the same result, Stephano would've been able to remax his army in time. KiWiKaKi used Blink Stalker Colossi to great effect sniping expansions, keeping Stephano pressured. 2. Did you even read my post and who I quoted? I haven't called anyone out for not being a GM; I was responding to someone else. | ||
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whereismymind
United Kingdom717 Posts
Tips? | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
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omegablackmage
United States4 Posts
I've been doing this build against a practice partner for a few weeks now, and he found a good timing with hydras and roaches. He hits right at the 12 minute mark with a large pack of roaches and hydras off of 2 bases (fairly all-in, if the attack failed or was crushed he would have a hard time winning the game). Problem is, at this point in time, the mother ship is out with maybe 3 or 4 archons at best, but doesn't have enough energy for a vortex. He usually has an overseer and his army and supply are considerably higher than mine (because this build is so tech heavy early on). Is there some way to stop this rush that I haven't thought of? I could try to get collossus out or maybe rush to storm, but this would either slow the mothership down or reduce my archon count quite a bit. Thoughts? | ||
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the p00n
Netherlands615 Posts
On October 21 2011 05:51 omegablackmage wrote: So i've been running this build on the ladder for some time now with great results. As mentioned there are a few things that are a pain in the ass, but certainly workable with good scouting. I've been doing this build against a practice partner for a few weeks now, and he found a good timing with hydras and roaches. He hits right at the 12 minute mark with a large pack of roaches and hydras off of 2 bases (fairly all-in, if the attack failed or was crushed he would have a hard time winning the game). Problem is, at this point in time, the mother ship is out with maybe 3 or 4 archons at best, but doesn't have enough energy for a vortex. He usually has an overseer and his army and supply are considerably higher than mine (because this build is so tech heavy early on). Is there some way to stop this rush that I haven't thought of? I could try to get collossus out or maybe rush to storm, but this would either slow the mothership down or reduce my archon count quite a bit. Thoughts? I have never really had problems with good FF micro. If you could post a replay that would certainly help, but just from this post it seems like you can snipe the overseer (or even flank with a lot of zealots from a proxy pylon). | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On October 21 2011 05:51 omegablackmage wrote: So i've been running this build on the ladder for some time now with great results. As mentioned there are a few things that are a pain in the ass, but certainly workable with good scouting. I've been doing this build against a practice partner for a few weeks now, and he found a good timing with hydras and roaches. He hits right at the 12 minute mark with a large pack of roaches and hydras off of 2 bases (fairly all-in, if the attack failed or was crushed he would have a hard time winning the game). Problem is, at this point in time, the mother ship is out with maybe 3 or 4 archons at best, but doesn't have enough energy for a vortex. He usually has an overseer and his army and supply are considerably higher than mine (because this build is so tech heavy early on). Is there some way to stop this rush that I haven't thought of? I could try to get collossus out or maybe rush to storm, but this would either slow the mothership down or reduce my archon count quite a bit. Thoughts? If Z stays on 2 bases, I start cannoning. There's no way your army of a few zealots and archons can beat a 2-base roach+hydra attack even if you did have a vortex. You want to stay 1 base behind Z and count on efficiency to win you the game. IMO, voids (and stalkers if you have to) are a better investment for defending than zealot/archon because they can shoot past forcefields. | ||
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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
I even hoped Blizz would remove it in my Earlier post in this thread.... YES! FOR THE SWARM!  | ||
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Kaladin
United States88 Posts
On October 22 2011 03:42 XRaDiiX wrote: The Mothership in HOTS is gone!.... im so glad as a Zerg player. I even hoped Blizz would remove it in my Earlier post in this thread.... YES! FOR THE SWARM! Yep, but the won't be out for quite a few more months, so I'll continue using this build and making zergs cry on the ladder :-) | ||
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ThisGS
Germany255 Posts
90% winrate doesnt count if its not gm, in gm ppl will most of the time scout it, have 2 more bases then u and have a 150 supply roach hydra army when u move out - or even 200 depending on when u push | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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wildstyle1337
Poland514 Posts
http://drop.sc/40041 <-- 3base roach/hydra aggression (fun tip: keep 'units lost' tab open while watching). guy was trying to counter mass zealot/archon + mothership with mass roaches, and he pull all roaches into vortex, | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
Any suggestions? I should find that replay. Edit: I found out I'm not the only one with this problem. I gotta scout better and probably just not take a 3rd if the zerg hasn't and get ready to defend the attack. | ||
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Grouch
Canada152 Posts
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Purupururin
United States14 Posts
On October 21 2011 14:54 kcdc wrote: If Z stays on 2 bases, I start cannoning. There's no way your army of a few zealots and archons can beat a 2-base roach+hydra attack even if you did have a vortex. You want to stay 1 base behind Z and count on efficiency to win you the game. IMO, voids (and stalkers if you have to) are a better investment for defending than zealot/archon because they can shoot past forcefields. This exactly. I've been doing the build and it wasn't working only because of a 2base push which I wasn't ready for. For anyone doing this build, please remember to cannon up if zerg is on 2base. | ||
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Opti
United States155 Posts
I'd also like to add that even though I only tested the build once vs computer to get a feel for it, I won my very fist game using it vs a diamond level zerg on ladder - and it wasn't just a win, it was him getting absolutely crushed. I find that at the diamond level, my void ray can usually deny a 3rd base without much problem, and it stops or really slows roach aggression. If he really wants to push across the map with a roach timing push off 2 base, my void ray will take down a large portion of his army, and cannons will be ready for it. I am far from having this build "down" like I do my other builds. I frequently get supply blocked and screw up some of the timings, but I'm getting much better. Just goes to show how powerful this build is. Although the mothership is the centerpiece of it, I think that some of the little things that this build encourages you to do helps a lot as well, like expanding @ around 34 supply with ~4 sentries and a zealot, and the general build order. I think that tip about sending your void ray along the path that the roaches or lings would take to get to you is amazing, and shortly afterwards scouting out nearby minerals for possible expansions. I've been amazed the number of times I could take out his 3rd base and delay it almost indefinitely unless he got some type of AA. You don't by any means "have" to go mothership + zeal/archon. If they go mass roach, hell, throw some immortals in as well, they also serve as a good mineral dump. Great build and great general advice man, thank you. | ||
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buldermar
Denmark102 Posts
On October 19 2011 13:38 rycho wrote: this is a really dumb argument so i probably shouldn't add to it, but this is a really dumb thing to post. its very possible to be at a "gm level" as the op described it without actually being in gm currently. actually, its possible to be at "gm level" without even playing a ladder game, ever. i have a hard time believing you actually think the stuff you post is correct, and i think everyone can agree that its irrelevant. 1) It's not a matter of not currently being in GM, but a matter of never having been in GM or an equivilanet of GM. 2) It's not possible to be playing at the GM level without ever having been in GM league. If you disagree, read my arguments and be specific about where I'm wrong. It's a tautological fallacy to utilize a term with a clear boundary without meeting its respective defining criterium. Without having ever been in GM league (or an equivilant) one can, per definition, not be playing at the GM level. Master league is not an equivilant because master league is on the same continuum, serving as a distinction (border) for GM league. 3) Since I've been responding only to posts sent my way, my posts are, per definition, relevant, because their relevance is just a synonym for my intentions with them. The fact that you quoted my post AND described it as being irrelevant at once is a clear incongruity, that is, ironic. | ||
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buldermar
Denmark102 Posts
Could you specify why? | ||
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