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Greetings again Team Liquid!
I have noticed that there is 2 very well done guides on TL about the 1 Gate Fast Expand vs Terran (the Huk 20 food style and KCDC's 1 Gate FE). The discussion in those threads often touch on other variations of 1 Gate FE but for the obvious reason of the threads being focused on one version they always go back to the build from the OP. I am going to make a simple thread that adds a few small other variations to the mix and will allow for a discussion of the idea . I will include the other two mentioned variations, and add these:
1 Gate 1 Gas FE
1 Gate 2 Gas FE
These are two of the more common openings we see as of late in the matchup.
I am not going to go into all the details of the follow ups as these builds are in general geared towards going into the late game and this is a simple guide. The first version of this guide will outline the timings and give a few example replays. I am going to be very open to more experienced Protoss players adding in their thoughts on some items reaction wise.
1 Gate 1 Gas FE (As done by oGs.MC)
+ Show Spoiler +The Build Order9 Pylon 12 Gateway [1] 14 Gas [1] 15 Pylon 17 Cybercore 18 Zealot 22 Warpgate Research and Stalker 24 Pylon Stalker 30 Nexus (29 if scout died) -If he did not expand: Cut Probes [Should have 16+3 on minerals, 3 on gas, and 1 scout] 2x Gateway Robo (Make an Observer when done and rally to enemy base) Pylon Gas Replay Exampleshttp://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=12733 - MC vs Puma at IEM on Xel'Naga Caverns
1 Gate 2 Gas FE (As done by EG.Huk)
+ Show Spoiler +The Build Order9 Pylon 12 Gateway 14 Gas 15 Pylon 16 Cybercore 18 Gas 20 Stalker & Warpgate Tech 24 Sentry 30 Nexus (in some order) 2x Gates & Pylon & Robo Replay Exampleshttp://drop.sc/packs/241/d - Pack of 12 Replays of Huk from MLG Raleigh 2011 (he does this opening in all 12 games in this mini pack)
KCDC 1 Gate FE (As explained by KCDC in this thread)
+ Show Spoiler +
**Pending permission from original thread author**
20 Food 1 Gate FE (As done by EG.Huk and explained in this thread by Alejandrisha)
+ Show Spoiler +The Build Order9 Pylon (10 CB nex) 13 Gate (2nd CB once 1st finishes) 14 Gas (can be on 15*) 16 Pylon (HuK makes it on 15 but if you're human you can't always make it on 15 w/o brief probe cut , and it's not like you cap yourself making probes with 16pylon ^^) 17 Core, mine gas with discretion**; WG @100% CC, dump ALL CB on WG 20 Nexus (19 if you lose the probe) 22 Initial Stalker (NO CB) 22 or 23 gateway }\ 22 or 23 gateway } \ If he's all inning you, feel free to cut this probe for now 24-26 (depending on how safe you feel, make 0-2 probes but always 2 stalkers between 20 and 26 food) queue second stalker from gateway, do not CB XX pylon when you can afford it, proxied. You do not need this pylon in your base; putting it in your natural gives him a free pylon kill. This pylon gives you the ability to kill him immediately after he tries to all in you and it fails. 100% WG, warp in 3 stalkers and poke with all 4 *With mineral stacking, you can get the gas on 14 without having to cut probes. However, getting a 14 gas is not necessary for this build as you are not trying to optimize your gas intake; you are simply mining 50 and then resuming once you put the nexus down. It's good practice to get it down on 14 without queueing the 15th probe, though. **If you instantly box 3 probes and send them to mine gas, you might not have 150 minerals the millisecond you are able to begin your core. You only need to hit a few benchmarks with gas: 50 for WG, 50 for first stalker, 150 gas when WG finishes. You can usually satisfy all these while maintaining strong mineral economy by initally putting 2 in gas and then adding the third after you begin your nexus credit to Alejandrisha and his thread on this (both the build and the replays/vods come from his thread) Please visit this thread for a focused discussion on this build. Replay Exampleshttp://www.justin.tv/liquidhuk/b/287559032 - *VOD* Start at 1:15:00 http://replayfu.com/download/gkS50g - This is what happens when your opponent tries to break the expansion with tech-lab reactor ( versus reactor - tech lab) http://replayfu.com/download/20QhDs - It shows what happens when you try to double tech lab rush one who is HuKking. http://replayfu.com/download/xNP14 - Here we see why 2 marauder + 1 marine push off of 1rax expand is suicide against this build (especially with rush distance.) http://replayfu.com/download/wQTHqt - Against 12/16 rax with reactor-tech lab using post wg modified build http://replayfu.com/download/rs9hhf - Againt reaper expand into 2 additional rax then factory http://replayfu.com/download/Q402bv - Against 1rax fe into mech posted with permission from Alejandrisha
This thread is a different kind of guide than the ones I usually post. It is more open for discussion and editing. Please add your thoughts and questions. I will be very dutiful on keeping the OP organized and updated. If for some reason I miss something that should be added, PM me!
Current Discussion Items-
1. Is there any other common 1 Gate FE Variations in PvT that are not mentioned, if so, please detail it.
2. Pros and Cons of the various builds.
3. Replay examples of the styles mentioned or new ones brought up.
4. Things you disagree with and feel should be changed and/or corrected.
5. How to react to various all-ins
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CONCERNING THIS BUILD AND YOU ARE WANTING HELP, POST A REPLAY AND INCLUDE A FOCUSED QUESTION. I WILL INCLUDE THE QUESTION, REPLAY, AND SATISFACTORY ANSWER POST IN THE FOLLOWING SPOILER SECTION.
User Replay Q&A Section
+ Show Spoiler +Example Question about MMM 8 min timing asked on 09/27/2011 + Show Spoiler +Johnny Bronze asked - I dont know what I did wrong but I think I am getting behind in my macro and then I am not knowing how to react to what I scout and then he killed me with MMM at around the 8 minute mark. Here is a link to the replay www.fakereplaylink.comBluePosterProGamerMcDuck replied - You need to focus on your probe production. At ___ ____ and ____ timings your nexus was doing nothing. You got supply blocked at 10 food because you forgot your first pylon. Work on those timings as you should be able to crush his push if your macro was better
FAQ Section
+ Show Spoiler +Q: What about 1/1/1? A: Check out this thread by QTIP, it should help you out. Q: Is there any particular reason as to always getting the Zealot first? A: One marauder pushes can do more damage then they would had you not gotten the Zealot. The Zealot / Stalker combo is much better at fighting these early marauder pressure openings.
This is an ambitious thread, I know, but I will keep it updated. Keep the thread on the topic of PvT 1 Gate Fast Expands and keep all balance whine far away! I encourage all of the Highlighted Protoss players to post and I encourage the other respected Protoss players to post as well!
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Good effort, I'm thinking of switching from T to P because you can get by with less micro (TvZ is a wrist-breaker  ) This thread will be very useful...
Maybe you can show some systematic timings like 4kmonk did in his PvP compilation guide http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256711
Also, I'm pretty sure you don't need permission to quote the BO from the other thread since it's public knowledge AND you are linking to it already 
Good job! Will be keeping an eye on this.
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Very cool Idea I hope it takes off. I think The kcdc FE is a little out of date, but I'm familiar with the other 3 and definitely think having all three in one place to discussion is a good idea.
You might also want to link one of the 1 gate fe into 1-1-1 defense? Idn, seems like it fits with the theme of the OP.
Either way, props and good luck
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Haha, I am doing alot of research into the basic builds of Protoss lately because I have been changing to them as my main race for about 7-8 weeks now. I changed race because of my mouse hand btw.... I developed severe tendonitis in my mouse hand early this year and after treatment and rest for most of this year I found as long as I didn't TvZ my wrist was fine... I encourage the switch if you feel that way cuz it has helped me!
As for a lil summary of the pros/cons like monk did in his anti 4 gate thread I plan to get to that point but I want discussion to lead to those items.
I might not need permission, but I want it.
I will work in the 1/1/1 defense items as the thread progresses. I wanted to get the discussion rolling. That is definitely noted. From the better players, is there a current anti 1/1/1 thread that is most relevant to 1 gate fe that is relevant at high levels? I have not really read the 1/1/1 threads as I kinda knew how to hold that push because I came from Terran.
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Is there any particular reason as to always getting the Zealot first? Against the 1-1-1 specifically, I really like skipping it for a quick Stalker to poke up the ramp.
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On September 28 2011 12:06 Zarent wrote:
Is there any particular reason as to always getting the Zealot first? Against the 1-1-1 specifically, I really like skipping it for a quick Stalker to poke up the ramp.
From my understanding people like to get the zealot because without one marauder pushes can do more damage then they should ever be able too.
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update -
added:
Q: What about 1/1/1?
A: Check out this thread by QTIP, it should help you out.
Q: Is there any particular reason as to always getting the Zealot first?
A: One marauder pushes can do more damage then they would had you not gotten the Zealot. The Zealot / Stalker combo is much better at fighting these early marauder pressure openings.
Checking that thread by QTIP out it seems pretty spot on from what I know. The question about the zealot was answered correctly as far as I know.
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Perhaps this is outside the scope of this thread as it is merely a compilation but I'd like to see just a bit more detail. For example, where should cronoboost be spent? Gateway? WG research? So far only the Huk's 20 food has this.
Otherwise, nice thread!
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Is the 20-food 1-gate FE outdated now or something since Huk does the 2 gas expand now? Or maybe a better question is why did he switch up his FE BO?
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On September 28 2011 15:17 Skyro wrote:
Is the 20-food 1-gate FE outdated now or something since Huk does the 2 gas expand now? Or maybe a better question is why did he switch up his FE BO?
This is the response Alejandrisha gave in the 20 Food 1 Gate FE thread:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 25 2011 12:11 Alejandrisha wrote:
HuK says that this build is too dangerous against a very well executed 12/16 reactor/tech lab which is very trendy on the korean server, so he no longer does it.
I wouldn't call the build outdated, but it has some weaknesses that people have learned to exploit. However, it is still viable given the proper conditions, and is something you should consider adding to your arsenal of builds.
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On September 28 2011 14:00 eugalp wrote:
Perhaps this is outside the scope of this thread as it is merely a compilation but I'd like to see just a bit more detail. For example, where should cronoboost be spent? Gateway? WG research? So far only the Huk's 20 food has this.
Otherwise, nice thread!
I carefully left that out because I want to build that up after talking about reactions.
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Very nice builds. I wish there was replays(that worked) for the 30 supply nexus builds. I've tried the 20 supply nexus and done real well, forcing all-ins that got squashed :D
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One of the better bumps - this thread definitely deserve(d/s) more love. Good effort, helpful compilation.
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I prefer a slight variation of the huk 1 gas version by far. It gets the nexus the fastest by far and isn't dangerous anymore (this thread was from before 1.4 i think).
Getting zealots before nexus when you intend to FE just seems non optimal, they don't really do anything productice and you can simply catch up production by putting down gate #2, 3 and 4 earlier if you want to.
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I've been using a 26 nexus 1gate FE that I saw CreatorPrime.WE using in the GS(T)L.
I don't have any replays right now since I'm not on my home computer but irrc the general build is:
9 Pylon (on 4 spawn scout here)
@100% Pylon Chronoboost nexus
@100% Chrono chronoboost nexus again (If you scouted on 9 unless your optimizing worker mining you might want to hold off on this chronoboost until after your gateway and get your assimilator a bit later at 15)
13 Gateway (on 2 spawn map scout here)
14 Assimilator
15 Pylon
Chronoboost nexus third time
17 Core
18 Zealot
@100% Core Get a stalker from Gate and Chrono
@100% Core Start Warp gate (no chrono)
@50% Stalker push out to their base with first zealot
@100% Stalker send with zealot to enemy base
24 Pylon
26 Nexus (cut probes for a bit)
26 Assimilator
26 Sentry (chronoboosted)
Add on 2 gates as your pushing with your zealot and stalker
Notes:
Don't transfer probes to your expansion. Put 3 on each gas in your main and as you saturate on 16 probes on minerals rally both nexii to your expansion.
With your zealot stalker push, if you see an expansion you can either follow up with standard play, using all chrono on probes and getting a robotics and into Colossus tech or go for a warp gate allin off 6 gateways by getting 16 probes at expansion + 3 for 1 gas at expo, going up to 6 gateways and pushing at around 9 minutes with a bunch of zealot sentry stalker.. If you scout 1 base bunker and only marines shooting at your units get a robotics and 2 more gateways, up to 5 gate robo. Get 16 probes at your expansion on minerals (no gas) and prepare for a 1-1-1 allin. If you scout marines and marauders on 1 base and don't think there is an inbase expansion then drop 2 more gateways and prepare for a 1 base allin.
It's fairly solid at my rank (Masters NA, Diamond KR) and i've heard Artosis pumping it as a good build. Again, those timings might be slightly off as i'm writing this off the top of my head but as far as i know thats the build
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Also, what are peoples opinions on how many gates you should throw down after a 1gate expand. In the 26 nexus 1 gas, and the other 3 FE's posted up there it goes up to 3, but I've seen players like choya going up to 4. Do people think the benefit of a faster 4th gateway outweighs the 150 minerals?
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What do you think about 1 gas vs 2 gas? I'd like to know what you guys think, i personally prefer the 2 gas for more sentries and tech later on.
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On November 04 2011 12:01 KitKat wrote:
What do you think about 1 gas vs 2 gas? I'd like to know what you guys think, i personally prefer the 2 gas for more sentries and tech later on.
They both have their advantages, you'll get a faster nexus with 1 gas but be safer to super quick marine allins with 2 gas, however I usually feel like I have too much gas than i know what to deal with in the early game if I get a quick second gas off 1 gate when expanding.
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Facts that kills me those days are...
- If you go 1gate FE you die to 2rax(12,16).
- If you don't go 1gate FE you die to 1-1-1.
Only because it is impossible to see what is Terran doing.
I have to do that first stalker to scout(zealot is too slow for scouting terrans ramp).
What to do here?
How about to roots like 1Gate Robo FE + 2gates after expo? Someone tried this versus 1-1-1?
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you can hold a 1gate expo vs 2rax, you just have to micro properly and do the correct version
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I don't know if anyone else plays this way, but one thing I've been doing lately PvT is skipping the zealot and blocking the add-on with a pylon if they have gas early. I then do something like:
25 nexus
25 pylon
26 robo
27 gateway x2
28 sentry
Or robo after gateways if you want to be slightly safer, or you probe scouts a maka rax, etc.
By delaying their add-on, it makes any kind of marauder pressure very weak, since they'll only have time to get 1 marauder to your base before WG research is finished, and this means your stalker can harass any marines/scvs trying to make bunkers. It also just generally messes up their build order if they're trying to go 12/16 or anything similar.
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On November 07 2011 03:48 Complete wrote:
you can hold a 1gate expo vs 2rax, you just have to micro properly and do the correct version
Could you elaborate on which is the correct version and how to specifically play it out if it is a 2-rax?
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The version I've been using is 3 chrono's on probes the rest on 1 gateway w/ 1 gas zealot,stalker,stalker,stalker, nexus stalker,stalker (cant remember if it gets 5 or 6 units out, 6 i think). Delays your nexus more than you'd want but it's still quite quick and puts you in a decent economic position vs builds he takes a gas; even if he 1rax marauder fast expands. If he 2raxes you can hold as long as he doesn't pull scv's, if he does you have to pull probes to match. Make sure no bunker gets down.
There's another version I haven't used in a while but it was much tighter. It was something like 1 gas zealot,stalker,sentry,nexus,sentry,gate,gate. You had to cut 1-2 probes, but you ended up with like a 4:30 nexus. 2rax arrived at 5:45 with 5 marines 1 marauder. First warpin is at 6:10 with 3 gates + the 4 original you made, so you need to warpin and get down your ramp before his bunker gets up (you have like 5-10 seconds max leeway iirc). Seconds count, miss a chrono and you die to an aggressive bunker
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On November 07 2011 03:59 iSTime wrote:
I don't know if anyone else plays this way, but one thing I've been doing lately PvT is skipping the zealot and blocking the add-on with a pylon if they have gas early. I then do something like:
25 nexus
25 pylon
26 robo
27 gateway x2
28 sentry
Or robo after gateways if you want to be slightly safer, or you probe scouts a maka rax, etc.
By delaying their add-on, it makes any kind of marauder pressure very weak, since they'll only have time to get 1 marauder to your base before WG research is finished, and this means your stalker can harass any marines/scvs trying to make bunkers. It also just generally messes up their build order if they're trying to go 12/16 or anything similar.
pretty cool
is it possible to block the addon if they do a wall off? I'm not too familiar with the positioning
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I have seen some other players do that a lot on their stream too, but my question is whether the main benefit is the delay or the scouting. It seems like it would only delay the add-on a few seconds at most as T lifts off and lands two hexes away, and variations in build execution/rush distances can often account for the same amount of time. Do you find that T are unwilling to show you their add-on so they wait a lot longer to attach it?
Also, I think SaSe always cancels his pylon - any thoughts on canceling vs keeping? It seems like it is easy to trick you if the pylon is canceled (fake second marine, fake reactor, etc), but 75 minerals on the other hand...
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This is an ambitious thread, I know, but I will keep it updated. Keep the thread on the topic of PvT 1 Gate Fast Expands and keep all balance whine far away! I encourage all of the Highlighted Protoss players to post and I encourage the other respected Protoss players to post as well!
It'll take ambition indeed. KCDC did an incredible service for the community by maintaining it for 40+ pages of discussion, and updating it with replays many months down the line.
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On November 07 2011 06:45 Complete wrote:
The version I've been using is 3 chrono's on probes the rest on 1 gateway w/ 1 gas zealot,stalker,stalker,stalker, nexus stalker,stalker (cant remember if it gets 5 or 6 units out, 6 i think). Delays your nexus more than you'd want but it's still quite quick and puts you in a decent economic position vs builds he takes a gas; even if he 1rax marauder fast expands. If he 2raxes you can hold as long as he doesn't pull scv's, if he does you have to pull probes to match. Make sure no bunker gets down.
This sounds like one of the old kcdc versions of 1gate fe (zealot-stalker-stalker-stalker) where all cb are used on the first gate after the intial 3 on the nexus. I've used this for quite a while but stopped using it because I have troubles if they 12/16 rax me and bring 8-10scvs along. Do you have any good replays of masters+ level showing this?
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Occasionally you'll open up with the MC 1gate 30nexus and your opponent will let you scout 2rax reactor after 1 marine with your probe.
In these cases IMO it's better to transition into a defensive HuK 20 nexus build as it holds the 2rax reactor techlab push more easily and is better economically anyways.
So in this situation the build would look like:
9 pylon *
12 gate -> scout *
14 gas *
15 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
~3:11 first marine comes out you see a 2nd rax building and a reactor with your probe before you leave
cancel zealot
cut probes at 20
pull 2 probes off gas
send a probe to natural
warpgate tech **
20 nexus
stalker
resume mining gas with 3 probes
22 gate
22 gate
stalker
resume probes
pylon
@ 100% warpgate warp-in 3 stalkers
* chrono nexus
** chrono warpgate tech 4 times
You'll have 5 stalkers well before the 1 maruader 7 marine timing can hit your natural and a 2nd round of warp-ins before the 9 marine 2 marauder timing.
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On November 07 2011 03:41 whereismymind wrote:
Facts that kills me those days are...
- If you go 1gate FE you die to 2rax(12,16).
- If you don't go 1gate FE you die to 1-1-1.
Only because it is impossible to see what is Terran doing.
I have to do that first stalker to scout(zealot is too slow for scouting terrans ramp).
What to do here?
How about to roots like 1Gate Robo FE + 2gates after expo? Someone tried this versus 1-1-1?
First off neither of those "facts" are actually facts. Rax/bunker nerf have slightly weakened both these pushes. Also the map plays a huge factor, such as how 1-1-1 is really strong on XNC but not nearly as strong on larger maps. There are also different versions of 1-gate FE. 1-gas 30 Nexus w/ chrono on units is perfectly save vs 12/16 rax. Be aggressive with your initial zealot stalker and probe scout as spotting this push earlier will give you more time to prepare. And there are a few 1-base builds I know of that can stop 1-1-1 but that is pretty OT.
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On November 14 2011 11:30 Jaeger wrote:
Occasionally you'll open up with the MC 1gate 30nexus and your opponent will let you scout 2rax reactor after 1 marine with your probe.
In these cases IMO it's better to transition into a defensive HuK 20 nexus build as it holds the 2rax reactor techlab push more easily and is better economically anyways.
So in this situation the build would look like:
9 pylon *
12 gate -> scout *
14 gas *
15 pylon
17 core
18 zealot
~3:11 first marine comes out you see a 2nd rax building and a reactor with your probe before you leave
cancel zealot
cut probes at 20
pull 2 probes off gas
send a probe to natural
warpgate tech **
20 nexus
stalker
resume mining gas with 3 probes
22 gate
22 gate
stalker
resume probes
pylon
@ 100% warpgate warp-in 3 stalkers
* chrono nexus
** chrono warpgate tech 4 times
You'll have 5 stalkers well before the 1 maruader 7 marine timing can hit your natural and a 2nd round of warp-ins before the 9 marine 2 marauder timing.
Thanks for the useful information. I saw Sase doing this lately on his stream vs terrans and he went aggressive if his opponent was not going for a 2rax opening. This is definitely something to work with.
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EPT
