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[D]Mutalisk vs. Mutalisk Upgrades

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
September 07 2011 15:28 GMT
#1
So I was watching the gsl up and down matches and the zergs commonly went muta/ling vs. muta/ling. Now in the live report thread I saw a lot of misinformation involving mutalisk upgrades. Some people were claiming that in muta vs. muta that it would be better to get +1 armor over +1 attack which the zergs were mostly doing. This is wrong because fractional damage in starcraft 2 is always rounded up. So instead of mutalisk damage being 9/3/1 (13), with +1 attack it becomes 10/4/2 (16), a +3 total damage boost. Being slightly curious about the upgrades past the initial +1 attack I did some tests and made a table.
[image loading]
So as you can see, getting +1 armor decreases the amount of damage you take by 2 and getting +1 attack increases your damage by 3. After the inital +1 attack however it is better to start getting armor as after the first attack upgrade, getting a second will only increase your damage by 1, while getting armor will decrease the damage you take by 1 to 3. However in ZvZ, mutalisk vs. mutalisk is not the only consideration. Carapace will really only help in muta vs. muta fights, while +attack will help much more vs. zerglings, queens and spores much more than +carapace will.

Discuss.
esq>n
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
September 07 2011 15:30 GMT
#2
Seems reasonable. The only time I get carapace first is if there are fast Thors, due to the volley damage.
Die tomorrow - Live today
MeLlamoSatan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States136 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 15:37:20
September 07 2011 15:34 GMT
#3
When my +1 armor Mutas fight +1 attack mutas, I always seem to win if the numbers are even(ish).

Consider the splash effect and the repeated reduction from +armor.
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KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
September 07 2011 15:34 GMT
#4
Hmm, so I think Losira went 1 attack and then favored armor, right? Seems sensible.
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AndyGB4
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada156 Posts
September 07 2011 15:34 GMT
#5
Wow, really interesting research. I go Mutas very often, so this is a huge help.
Thanks!
Eiviyn
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom169 Posts
September 07 2011 15:35 GMT
#6
On September 08 2011 00:28 ejac wrote:
This is wrong because fractional damage in starcraft 2 is always rounded up. So instead of mutalisk damage being 9/3/1 (13), with +1 attack it becomes 10/4/2 (16), a +3 total damage boost. Being slightly curious about the upgrades past the initial +1 attack I did some tests and made a table..


This is also wrong. There is no "fractional damage rounding" in SC2. Unit health is displayed as an integer but in reality it's a decimal. There is a minimum damage of 0.5, but there is nothing stopping such damage values as 0.75.

You can test this in the editor using a unit with 0 regen and a weapon that deals fractional damage above 0.5.
GentleDrill
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom672 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 16:22:50
September 07 2011 16:12 GMT
#7
I thought it was common wisdom that a +1 attack upgrade only affects the first two bounces. Have you tested this to be sure you're correct?
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 16:18:54
September 07 2011 16:18 GMT
#8
On September 08 2011 00:35 Eiviyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 00:28 ejac wrote:
This is wrong because fractional damage in starcraft 2 is always rounded up. So instead of mutalisk damage being 9/3/1 (13), with +1 attack it becomes 10/4/2 (16), a +3 total damage boost. Being slightly curious about the upgrades past the initial +1 attack I did some tests and made a table..


This is also wrong. There is no "fractional damage rounding" in SC2. Unit health is displayed as an integer but in reality it's a decimal. There is a minimum damage of 0.5, but there is nothing stopping such damage values as 0.75.

You can test this in the editor using a unit with 0 regen and a weapon that deals fractional damage above 0.5.

I thought any damage under 0.5 was doing 0.5 ? (which is the same as under 1 in practice)
So +0 atk marines (6 damage) are still doing 1 damage/2 attack to 6 armor ultras.
Aui_2000
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada435 Posts
September 07 2011 16:23 GMT
#9
I think muta bounce hits are affected by armor so your chart is really off.
follow @aui_2000 // www.twitch.tv/aui_2000
Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
September 07 2011 16:25 GMT
#10
On September 08 2011 00:28 ejac wrote:
So I was watching the gsl up and down matches and the zergs commonly went muta/ling vs. muta/ling. Now in the live report thread I saw a lot of misinformation involving mutalisk upgrades. Some people were claiming that in muta vs. muta that it would be better to get +1 armor over +1 attack which the zergs were mostly doing. This is wrong because fractional damage in starcraft 2 is always rounded up. So instead of mutalisk damage being 9/3/1 (13), with +1 attack it becomes 10/4/2 (16), a +3 total damage boost. Being slightly curious about the upgrades past the initial +1 attack I did some tests and made a table.
[image loading]
So as you can see, getting +1 armor decreases the amount of damage you take by 2 and getting +1 attack increases your damage by 3. After the inital +1 attack however it is better to start getting armor as after the first attack upgrade, getting a second will only increase your damage by 1, while getting armor will decrease the damage you take by 1 to 3. However in ZvZ, mutalisk vs. mutalisk is not the only consideration. Carapace will really only help in muta vs. muta fights, while +attack will help much more vs. zerglings, queens and spores much more than +carapace will.

Discuss.


This research has already been done. x.x

If (Muta vs Muta)
go Carapace
Else
go Attack
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
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