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[G] ZvP Basic 3 Base Opening against FFE

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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RoyalFlush
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 03:40:34
August 27 2011 19:28 GMT
#1
Hey TL Family! Im a season 3 GM Zerg player RoyalFlush. This is my first attempt at sharing my 'build' with you all. So be patient with me and have fun!

Introduction

+ Show Spoiler +
This is a general Guideline to help Zergs who are having the most trouble against Protoss' FFE style of play. This is an opening I have been playing around with and been working on over the last few months. I feel that this opening deals with any type of FFE build protoss can throw at zerg.

This build is to make sure that you can survive the early-mid game against protoss so that zerg can continue the game with an economical advantage into mid-late game. Hopefully this thread will cover many standard 2 base timing attacks protoss can throw at you. There is already a standard 3 base type of play we have been seeing from GSL where Nestea and Losira have demonstrated for us, where they stay in a hatchery tech for a long time with no gas until about late 45-60 workers. However, I feel that with this type of play there is no effective way to punish greedy protoss players until way later. This opening will allow zerg players to have an option to punish protoss players who are planning on taking their third and fourth bases too quickly.


Build Order

+ Show Spoiler +

14 Pool (This step is your choice. Any pool between 10-14 pool will be fine ex.10 overpool. If you dont want your opponent to open nexus before forge, I recommond 10 overpool)
16 Overlord (your first overlord should be positioned behind protoss' natural mineral lines to see when they take gases. The second overlord should be on top of you natural hatchery for cannon spotting and the third overlord should be headed towards your third hatch)
@Spawning pool completion 4 zerglings and a queen (This step is really important. All zerglings have their own purposes; 1 for cybernetics core, forge spotting, 1 for scouting denying, 1-2 for xelnaga tower control, 1 for patrolling around your third hatch and possible proxy pylon locations)
Natural Hatchery ASAP
Second queen production after the first queen (When the second queen spawns, she will lay down a creep tumor to connect creep between your main base and your natual)
24 Overlord
Third Hatchery ASAP (a drone should be heading towards the third hatch location when u have 100 minerals with no larvae left. Third queen should be in production as soon as the third hatch completes)
2 gas @30-32 Food (you will have 2 queens, 4 lings, and 24-26 drones before you throw down 2 gas)
Evo Chamber @6:30 mark (this will be a precautionary evo chamber for stargate plays)
@100 gas Lair
@25/80 Lair stage, Roach warren (this is so that the roach warren will complete as the lair finishes)
Third gas should start being mined as the lair finishes
@Lair Completion
1.Burrow upgrade
2.Roach speed
3.Overseer production(SCOUT!!)
(you should have just over 300 gas as the lair finishes. It will be about 7:30-8:00 in game time and your food count should be about 60 with about 50 drones at this point)


Key Ideas
+ Show Spoiler +
The idea behind this build is that you will be able to scout exactly what protoss is doing and able to defend against any rush appropriately. I will cover few standard 2 base timing attacks protoss can do. You should be able to hold off a lot of gateway rushes with roach burrow.
6 Gate rush: This is by far the hardest to defend with this opener. Your spotting ling should see if the cybernetics core is being chrono boosted the entire time or not
as the earliest push can occur at 7:30-8:00 mark so you should adjust your roach warren timing accordingly. A standard 6 gate timing will be around 8:00-9:00 mark, which you will be able to scout with your overseer right before they move out and you should enough time to pump out enough roaches.
DT rush: well... just make another overseer or two as soon as you see the dt shrine. You should be able to scout it before it hits you
7 Gate Blink: As soon as you scout with your overseer that hes going blink you will have enough time to pump out another round of drones before you should start making roaches. There are lots of variation with this build as they can go for +2 attack timing push or have an observer with the stalkers, but mass roaches should be able to crush these stalkers.(your spotter ling should also note if the forge is running or not since it can often be a good indicator that if protoss is doing a gateway pressure or not)
Stargate Opening: Your overlord thats positioned behind protoss' natural expansion mineral lines should poke in a litlle bit right after cybernetics core is completed to see if they throw down a stargate. try not to lose that overlord! If you couldnt scout it, it's fine. A good tell that protoss is going something tech heavy(stargate or dt) is revealed by your spotter ling again! If you see no forge action or no chronoboost on cybernetics core, you should put down a safety spore crawler each base
Fast third with sentry heavy 4/5/6 gates: get tunneling claws and go kill him! or you can just be extra greedy and tech up the choice is yours


Remember that this is just a general guideline to survive until mid game against protoss who went FFE. The build is very flexible and lets you go heavy econ so after you scout what protoss is doing, you can adjust your build accordingly. Im a huge fan of trading armies with protoss and denying their expansions as long as possible. Another thing! if you do it right you should be able to max at 12-13 min mark with just roaches, which then u can just go sauron zerg style. Hope this helps!!!

Why no Ling Speed in all these games?
+ Show Spoiler +

Now try to think of why we get ling speed in ZvP when they do a normal expansion may that be a 3 gate expo, 2gate/stargate expo or a dt expo. It's to scout and get the information on when protoss throws down the nexus or to see how many sentries they have and to scout their sim city etc etc and the ling speed will help tremendously against a possible 4 gate or a light gateway pressure. However against a FFE why do we need ling speed? protoss is confined by its own 2 base makes them immobile and lets zerg have map control without needing to have the ling speed. It is true that ling speed is handy all game long but we just do not need the ling speed early game at all. Since this strategy involves around getting key upgrades on roaches to survive many rushes protoss can do, there is little to no benefit we gain from getting ling speed until later on.


Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
FXOChoya vs RoyalFlush (2 base Blink Stalkers all in)
FnaticMSiJF vs RoyalFlush (Blink Stalkers)
EGiNcontroL vs RoyalFlush (Blink Stalkers, DT, Early third)
coLCrunCher vs RoyalFlush (2 base Robo play)
Kowi vs RoyalFlush (Chargelot + Archon)
InfinityTTF vs RoyalFlush (6-7 Gate pressure)
Emphysema vs RoyalFlush (Stargate Opener)
PswGun vs RoyalFlush (Stargate opener to Early Third)




Check out my stream for more and I will be posting more basic ZvP guides in the future!
RoyalFlush.713

http://www.twitch.tv/jroyalflushl#
You called down the thunder?
joeF
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6 Posts
August 27 2011 19:30 GMT
#2
Wow finally, thanks man you're the best!
"I want to be the very best"
Freeheals
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States488 Posts
August 27 2011 19:39 GMT
#3
nice writeup, similar to how i like to play but very helpful with some points

looks like an exciting batch of replays that i'll start watching asap
http://www.last.fm/user/Rahdek
Qxz
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada189 Posts
August 27 2011 19:49 GMT
#4
Yes! I always want to go quick third vs protoss but I don't know how to scout/deal with the big 6-7 gate pushes. This will help me tremendously.
Pheo
Profile Joined September 2010
United States13 Posts
August 27 2011 19:50 GMT
#5
Excellent guide!
Boyo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States226 Posts
August 27 2011 20:04 GMT
#6
Great player, lots of good insight in this guide Im not sure if i should ever FFE u anymore :O
Menkt
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada113 Posts
August 27 2011 20:43 GMT
#7
Great guide, smelly zerg.
awakenx
Profile Joined May 2011
United States341 Posts
August 27 2011 20:49 GMT
#8
Alright, gonna start using this build in ZvP, see if I can change my 38 win % vs Protoss to a bit higher.
WorstMicroNA
SLAYER29
Profile Joined June 2011
United States50 Posts
August 27 2011 20:51 GMT
#9
when i click the spoiler i dont see the embed
Judgment day the second coming arrives. Before you see the light you must die
RoyalFlush
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada109 Posts
August 27 2011 20:55 GMT
#10
On August 28 2011 05:51 SLAYER29 wrote:
when i click the spoiler i dont see the embed


I think that might be your computer's problem? it works fine for everyone else
You called down the thunder?
stormchaser
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada1009 Posts
August 27 2011 21:18 GMT
#11
Very interesting.
Qxz
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada189 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-28 02:11:02
August 28 2011 02:10 GMT
#12
I have a question: I use to get the gas at around 40 food, I find that this allows me to max out as fast as possible while spending my money perfectly. For the record, in an ideal situation, i.e. no pressure at all, I can max out on speed +1 roaches in just over 12 minutes, with burrow and tunneling just around the corner. Is there any reason why you get the gases at 30-32 food specifically?
RoyalFlush
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada109 Posts
August 28 2011 05:59 GMT
#13
On August 28 2011 11:10 Qxz wrote:
I have a question: I use to get the gas at around 40 food, I find that this allows me to max out as fast as possible while spending my money perfectly. For the record, in an ideal situation, i.e. no pressure at all, I can max out on speed +1 roaches in just over 12 minutes, with burrow and tunneling just around the corner. Is there any reason why you get the gases at 30-32 food specifically?


This opener is designed so that you can combat against 6-7 gate pressure with fast lair. By getting double gas at 30 food mark the timing works out nicely so that u will have roach burrow and overseer scout just in time before these attacks hit
You called down the thunder?
Xequecal
Profile Joined October 2010
United States473 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-28 06:15:46
August 28 2011 06:15 GMT
#14
This opening is also pretty weak against zealot/archon, especially if he goes Nexus first. You're taking gas too late and as such won't be able to get out enough hydras or infestors, which are absolutely required to beat zealot/archon. You can't do it with pure roach.
RoyalFlush
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada109 Posts
August 28 2011 06:25 GMT
#15
On August 28 2011 15:15 Xequecal wrote:
This opening is also pretty weak against zealot/archon, especially if he goes Nexus first. You're taking gas too late and as such won't be able to get out enough hydras or infestors, which are absolutely required to beat zealot/archon. You can't do it with pure roach.


You should look at the fourth replay i have posted against Kowi
He did chargelot archon against me and yes pure roaches can beat them and u can tech to infestors while holding the rush off and u do not need hydras...
You called down the thunder?
Qxz
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada189 Posts
August 28 2011 06:40 GMT
#16
This is incredibly strong in Diamond league. I'm at the point where everytime Protoss goes FFE I assume I'll win. And relatively easily at that.

:D
Nightbiscuit
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden179 Posts
August 28 2011 07:07 GMT
#17
I used to do exactly this, all the time versus Protoss. Problem with it is that it requires no skill what so ever, as you just spam roaches. If you're playing in a tournament, it's a great build to use whenever possible, but if you're playing on the ladder trying to become better, it's a terrible build.

I also find it hard to deal with void rays into colussus.
justindab0mb
Profile Joined October 2010
United States213 Posts
August 28 2011 07:21 GMT
#18
I watched about 4 of your replays and in all of them you only made mass roaches. My question is what if a protoss goes for a timing push like stalker/sentry/immortal to kill mass roach? I also noticed that you never got zergling speed in ANY of your games... I was a little confused by this...
"Hi there! I'm a big fan of all-ins, and I also play Terran"
Xequecal
Profile Joined October 2010
United States473 Posts
August 28 2011 07:36 GMT
#19
On August 28 2011 15:25 RoyalFlush wrote:

You should look at the fourth replay i have posted against Kowi
He did chargelot archon against me and yes pure roaches can beat them and u can tech to infestors while holding the rush off and u do not need hydras...


I don't think that's a great example, you won that game by literally 5-10 seconds. If that attack had been that much later he'd have had storm out to easily repel that attack and you would have been in a horrible position after losing your third. He also didn't Nexus first despite the fact that he easily could have after scouting your 14 pool. Do you normally skip ling speed too? I don't think you want to advise Zerg players to skip that.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-28 07:45:22
August 28 2011 07:45 GMT
#20
On August 28 2011 15:40 Qxz wrote:
This is incredibly strong in Diamond league. I'm at the point where everytime Protoss goes FFE I assume I'll win. And relatively easily at that.

:D

Same here. I'm glad for more fuel to the fire but I'm stuck in Dia cos I just can't figure out ZvT

Thanks for the guide RoyalFlush. Even though I just said I don't have much of a problem with Protoss- I'm still memorizing bits of this right now to help myself out even more. Now if only there were a distinctive ZvT guide that was less vague.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
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