EPT[G]Ghost/Marauder/Helion - The key to TvZ? - Page 3
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Frequencyy
United States344 Posts
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Bobo012893
United States7 Posts
One thor would nullify mutalisk stacking and would also help against mutalisk harass as one of the best strengths of the marine is how mobile it is with stim and forgoing marines could leave a large vulnerability to mutalisk harass as ghosts are so slow. | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
- No pressure - Weak in an ArmyvArmy battle - To microintensive to work - No proof/replays - Standard Zerg composition beats it | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
It's not hard to snipe mutas and ghosts are REALLY good against mutas, especially with upgrades. 20+ damage AA and snipe makes mutas just melt. | ||
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Severus_
759 Posts
On August 26 2011 19:22 Skwid1g wrote: I prefer GhostMech (ghost+tanks mostly) honestly. This seems like it'd be a little weak to BLs/Mass muta switch as a lot of supply will be invested into marauders/tanks. Wall off + hellions will make it really, REALLY cost inefficient. Plus, that would basically mean the Zerg would be sacrificing a lot of tech/drones if the attack failed. It could definitely work, but it's not a 100% kill for something like this. Wall off ? what are you talking about you can't wall off on open field....with this comp you have no map control zerg can counter attack you,expand all over the map. You have no way to stop benling drops on your army or any drops at your main without any AA only ghosts witch sux because their fire rate is slow comepre to marines. For this to work you need APM cloes to the automaton movies....can't see it working vs any decent player. | ||
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Aui_2000
Canada435 Posts
On August 27 2011 03:33 Skwid1g wrote: For some reason people vastly underrate ghosts vs. mutalisk, I guess partly due to the fact that you rarely see ghosts. It's not hard to snipe mutas and ghosts are REALLY good against mutas, especially with upgrades. 20+ damage AA and snipe makes mutas just melt. It's not hard to snipe mutas when they are harassing your base. It is, however, ridiculously hard to snipe them enough to make a giant difference in a large battle, and it's hard to justify using apm on snipe when using apm on something like marine splitting/tank target firing/stutter stepping makes a much bigger difference. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10318 Posts
On August 27 2011 02:43 rmAmnesiac wrote: ghosts can't catch mutalisks. turrets don't cut it vs muta play, they are there to delay for marine or thors to defend. mutalisks are either to produce en masse. and mutalisks can kill your ghostts far faster than you can possibly snipe those tiny little things, if you're playing mech, and depending on the map, you can heavily turret the 1-2 sides that lead into your main/base(s), so that you don't need to worry about going back home, instead of spreading turrets here and there which just get picked off over and over again (you're just gonna sink that money into hellions anyways, so sometimes it is worth it) On August 27 2011 03:57 Validity wrote: It's not hard to snipe mutas when they are harassing your base. It is, however, ridiculously hard to snipe them enough to make a giant difference in a large battle, and it's hard to justify using apm on snipe when using apm on something like marine splitting/tank target firing/stutter stepping makes a much bigger difference. Good point, and because of the added micro via snipe, that also helps ghosts synergize with mech (since you don't need to micro much, unlike you do with tanks and marines where u split the marines and snipe infestors/blings with tanks, etc etc...) | ||
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XDJuicebox
United States593 Posts
You kind of have to be smart with your resource distribution and unit composition, that's a big thing. Ghosts should always be extremely high in numbers, and they must be retained. In even numbers, Ghosts will destroy mutas. Ghosts are mutas are even when there are less Ghosts, especially with snipe. The only problem I foresee is the mobility of the mutas, and this composition is very mineral heavy, so turrets will HEAVILY take away from your main army... | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
This unit composition sounds rather dependent on medivacs. How will you secure the necessary gas to make them? | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On August 27 2011 05:23 CosmicSpiral wrote: Question: This unit composition sounds rather dependent on medivacs. How will you secure the necessary gas to make them? Why would it be dependent on medivac? They wouldnt be bad at all and i would say add them as well since you will have surplus of gas anyways considering all your money is distributed into mineral and none in the gas area. You will die to banelings and lings and mutas. I also dont believe you are in high master. No way such unit mix can work in high master. Post a replay and your ranking and stuff to prove your credibility. How are you going to split your marauders, snipe and control hellion so they dont die to banelings. How are you going to deal with the surplus of gas? If you add thor in there then it nothing new. Marauder hellion thor was semi popular 7 month back but then people found infestor rapes that and banelings are cost efficient vs that as well. People saying hellion are good vs banelings, you have no idea how bad they are vs banelings. They are pretty terrible because banelings are not LIGHT so even if you kill them, banelings splash kill kill your hellion. Hellion are light so they die too. \ Let me ask you, WHAT is the purpose of the marauders? They are there to do nothing but die vs lings banelings mutas. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On August 27 2011 05:42 SheaR619 wrote: Why would it be dependent on medivac? They wouldnt be bad at all and i would say add them as well since you will have surplus of gas anyways considering all your money is distributed into mineral and none in the gas area. You will die to banelings and lings and mutas. I also dont believe you are in high master. No way such build can work in high master. Post a replay and your ranking and stuff. How are you going to split your marauders, snipe and control hellion so they dont die to banelings. How are you going to deal with the surplus of gas? If you add thor in there then it nothing new. Marauder hellion thor was semi popular 7 month back but then people found infestor rapes that and banelings are cost efficient vs that as well. People saying hellion are good vs banelings, you have no idea how bad they are vs banelings. They are pretty terrible because banelings are not LIGHT so even if you kill them, banelings splash kill kill your hellion. Hellion are light so they die too. Because it's an infantry-heavy composition. Without medivacs you cannot slowly advance with it, so all attacks would be reduced to timing pushes or 200/200 engagments. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
The Marine is the single hardest unit for Zerg to deal with in the MU considering there is no mass-marine killing unit. Fungal takes energy and Banelings die on attack. The hardest part about late-game ZvT is managing the 10+ marines that are popping out of Ts base every 25 seconds. Please by all means, do ANYTHING but mass marines in late-game ZvT. It only makes things easier on Zerg. | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On August 27 2011 06:03 Jermstuddog wrote: Why does everybody try to stray away from the Marine so hard? The Marine is the single hardest unit for Zerg to deal with in the MU considering there is no mass-marine killing unit. Fungal takes energy and Banelings die on attack. The hardest part about late-game ZvT is managing the 10+ marines that are popping out of Ts base every 25 seconds. Please by all means, do ANYTHING but mass marines in late-game ZvT. It only makes things easier on Zerg. Probably because 9 broodlords + 10+infestors can take out infinite numbers of marines. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On August 27 2011 06:19 avilo wrote: Probably because 9 broodlords + 10+infestors can take out infinite numbers of marines. That's also 3750+ gas. Imagine what 20 tanks and 16+ vikings can do to a Zerg! | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
To all you guys who say it's total bullshit: * From my experience, base ghost damage is really good against muta. With the addition of snipe, you can decimate the ranks of a typical mid-game muta ball (12-15 mutas) in a couple of seconds. * Ghosts and Marauders are both extremely hard to kill with banelings, and so you don't need to snipe all of them to prevent your army from dying. That said, it won't hold up to MASS muta - but then, so do a lot of standard compositions, like stalkers. | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
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